--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EE500001 Date: 10/02/97 From: KEN FREEMAN Time: 08:46pm \/To: BOB WALLACE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses On 09-30-97 BOB WALLACE wrote to ANDREW HAMBLYN... BW> Ah, then it comes down to your taste versus that of literally BW> thousands BW> of steam devotees who will go out of their way to catch even the BW> briefest of glimpses of the Union Pacific's 844 or 3985 Uh huh. I've heard more than one NRHS chapter bemoan the fact that their trip they sponsored had more people chasing and watching them than riding the train. Not from lack of advertising, either. And hey, I'm guilty of it, too. BW> AH>The steam age is dead, and a lot of railroads/ railways all over BW> frown on th BW> AH>cause of the organisational headache they create. BW> BW> A good part of it depends heavily on who it is that maintains such BW> equipment for use on the host railroad's mainline. While the hosting BW> railroad can gain some measure of good marks for allowing steam to run BW> on its rails, there are obvious safety factors that do need to be BW> taken BW> into consideration, and obvious scheduling considerations for the BW> dispathers who do have other trains to move along the system. There's a big part of the problem right there. Look at that Frisco steamer seems like every time that sucker is scheduled to go out, something breaks usually about 100 miles from home. (I wonder if there's a connection?) Nothing a host railroad likes less than having to go and rescue an excursion train, steam or diesel. Between nervous management, lawyers and insurance BW> carriers, it's hardly surprising that much of the steam we used to see BW> running mainline excursions has been bumped off the rails. There's the big one, right there. The risk management types have killed off a good many great steam trips. Also, with the increase in business, decrease in trackage and all, there's a big problem with being over capacity at the times that an excursion needs to run. Even Amtrak BW> is having problems in scheduling charters with equipment that sits on BW> the side tracks for 36-48 hours or more every week without drawing any BW> revenue for Amtrak while they lay over to await the next scheduled BW> run. They do pretty good with charters around here. Amtrak runs a bunch of football specials to Buffalo, and ran two trains from Buffalo toCorning and back last weekend. From what I heard over the scanner, it appears they made their schedule. But then, the track they were going over only gets a half dozen trains a day now. The biggest problem they have with the football specials is getting the people from the station to the stadium and back. K --- * OFFLINE 1.56 * Them durn ol' U boats stunk, so the new U boats must stink, too! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: - NightWorX - *HST D/S* Roch., NY (1:260/240.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEB00000 Date: 10/04/97 From: BOB WALLACE Time: 07:44am \/To: DAVID EPLING (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses DE>-> How many people will any U-boat or GP-9 draw trackside when they're DE>-> as old as some of the "museum pieces" from the steam age that have DE>-> literally thousands of people standing around the rails with their DE>-> cameras when those dinosaurs from the steam age come marching through DE>-> town? DE>depending on where you are located I can think of quite a few, DE>especially depending on what paint job is on them, for example, say the DE>Union Pacific suddenly allowed the Portola Museum to do a run down to DE>Keddie and back using Western Pacific GP7's and U-boats that are in DE>thier inventory...I think highway 70 would get seriously clogged with DE>traffic... Every time the former S.P. 4449 steams down from Portland to Sacramento or beyond, I'll guarantee you that even the Interstate (5, in this case) is clogged with vehicles intent on watching as much rod action on that engine as they can, and to hell with anyone else using the road for whatever purpose. Going back to when the Rail Museum opened in Sacramento, I was at that time driving tour buses in San Francisco, and happened to catch a trip with a group going to Sacramento to tour the museum which was then still under construction. This came up on the very day that U.P.'s pair of steam engines (the then-8444, and 3985) were due to arrive in Sacramento for opening ceremonies. Not only were two bus loads of people alongside the tracks, but some number of those who had driven out in cars were lining the tracks as the U.P. train steamed in the direction of the state capitol. --- # SLMR 2.1a # I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? # PDQWK 2.5 #51 --- * Origin: NetComm BBS 303-730-7045 (1:104/603.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEC00000 Date: 10/06/97 From: ANDREW HAMBLYN Time: 05:55am \/To: KEN FREEMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses KF> BW> How many people will any U-boat or GP-9 draw trackside when they're as KF> BW> old as some of the "museum pieces" from the steam age that have KF> BW> literally thousands of people standing around the rails with their KF> BW> cameras when those dinosaurs from the steam age come marching through KF> BW> town? KF> I dunno, seems like a lot of them showed up when UP brought out their rebui KF> E units..........Heck, if I wanna see GP9's, I don't even have to wait for KF> special runs for that, the shortline in town uses them all the time. U KF> bangers, KF> now that's another story. Here in New Zealand we have a fleet of 48 GE u-bangers, all of which are in service. These are approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong. I really dont know why the americans get rid of locos that are only 25-30 years old when they have good life left in them....... ahh well,.. take care Andrew. --- Renegade v5-11 Exp * Origin: The Gaulish Village Auckland, New Zealand (3:772/1615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEC00001 Date: 10/06/97 From: BOB WALLACE Time: 04:41pm \/To: KEN FREEMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses KF>Uh huh. I've heard more than one NRHS chapter bemoan the fact that their tri KF>they sponsored had more people chasing and watching them than riding the KF>train. KF>Not from lack of advertising, either. And hey, I'm guilty of it, too. Which comes down to at least two items right off the bat. How much advance publicity did the chapter do when the details had been cast in concrete for that trip; and did they price the trip to encourage people to ride, or discourage them from riding? Too many trips may get short shrift when it comes to any advance knowledge of such trips, despite their being mentioned by the chapter's newsletter (the Pacific Northwest Chapter does it this way, for instance), and/or putting notice into Trains magazine and Model Railroader if enough time is available ahead of the actual trip. KF> There's a big part of the problem right there. Look at that Frisco teamer KF> seems like every time that sucker is scheduled to go out, something reaks KF> usually about 100 miles from home. (I wonder if there's a connection?) KF>Nothing a host railroad likes less than having to go and rescue an excursion KF>train, steam or diesel. Despite howls of protest from chartering groups, some railroads have taken the precaution of placing one or more of their own road engines behind the steamer, just in case. While this will obviously screw with someone's mind if they're intent upon taking a "pure" picture of such trains, the railroad clearly has other ideas about how to get anything across their tracks without tying up the mainline. (By the way, is this 100-mile radius on the outbound or inbound portion of the trip? Might make a difference in how we might choose to view it? ) Needless to say, some part of this scheduling detail will depend on what part of the country such a train might run across, how much trackage is available to the dispatchers to work other trains around such a special train, and the training of the crew actually running the steam train on what most likely will be "borrowed" track for the trip in many cases. In most instances, the host railroad will be putting one of their own people in the engine to keep the engineer appraised of each and every mile of track being run on during that trip, the signaling system being used by the host railroad, all sorts of things the engineer will need to know while running the train. KF> There's the big one, right there. The risk management types have killed off KF> a good many great steam trips. Also, with the increase in business, decreas KF> in trackage and all, there's a big problem with being over capacity at he KF> times that an excursion needs to run. This would have happened several years ago on a Norfolk Southern charter trip, had one of the Claytor brothers not been at the throttle when the train derailed. First thing they made checks for was whether the train had been running too fast for the track conditions, and for the condition of the older passenger equipment being used on that specific trip, too. KF>They do pretty good with charters around here. Amtrak runs a bunch of footba KF>specials to Buffalo, and ran two trains from Buffalo toCorning and back last KF>weekend. From what I heard over the scanner, it appears they made their KF>schedule. KF>But then, the track they were going over only gets a half dozen trains a day KF>now. KF>The biggest problem they have with the football specials is getting the peop KF>from the station to the stadium and back. Between at least two organizations in the Pacific Northwest, Amtrak has been running chartered trips for both the Historical Society based in Portland, Oregon (I'm a member, so can attest to this), and another with a travel agency in Seattle just last May that my wife and I jumped at the chance to ride on. Add to it the occasional football special here in the San Francisco Bay area now being run by CalTrain that transports people from San Francisco or San Jose to Stanford every other year for the Big Game between U.C. Berkeley and Stanford. Other than these, any other sort of chartered train trip will be few and far between. Unless the U.P. chooses to start doing public relations in a positive way now that they own most of the tracks here in California since taking over the former Southern Pacific late last year. --- # SLMR 2.1a # I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? # PDQWK 2.5 #51 --- * Origin: NetComm BBS 303-730-7045 (1:104/603.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEE00000 Date: 10/08/97 From: BOB WALLACE Time: 08:54pm \/To: ANDREW HAMBLYN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses AH>Here in New Zealand we have a fleet of 48 GE u-bangers, all of which are n AH>service. These are approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong. AH>I really dont know why the americans get rid of locos that are only 25-30 AH>years old when they have good life left in them....... AH>ahh well,.. Without going into any discussion of the latest in technology going into American locomotives currently, how efficient are those engines now 25-30 years old in comparison with those less than, say, ten years? By the way, the latest issue of "Trains" magazine states that Union Pacific claims to have the youngest fleet of locomotives in the U.S. at the moment, and the most powerful fleet, the average age being 13.7 years. This on a railroad running more than 2,000 trains each day with some 6,250 engines. --- # SLMR 2.1a # This tagline is umop apisdn # PDQWK 2.5 #51 --- * Origin: NetComm BBS 303-730-7045 (1:104/603.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEF00000 Date: 10/10/97 From: DON DELLMANN Time: 11:25am \/To: BOB WALLACE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses While tripping merrily through the mail, Bob Wallace was overheard AH>Here in New Zealand we have a fleet of 48 GE u-bangers, all of which are in AH>service. These are approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong. AH>I really dont know why the americans get rid of locos that are only 25-30 AH>years old when they have good life left in them....... AH>ahh well,.. BW> BW> Without going into any discussion of the latest in technology going BW> into American locomotives currently, how efficient are those engines BW> now 25-30 years old in comparison with those less than, say, ten years? A lot of the reason has to do with the tax laws re: depreciation etc, also, the majority of locomotives on US railroads are leased rather than owned, giving advantages to disposing of them before the end of their useful life. It's more complicated than I can understand though. Don ... The light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming this way. --- * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEG00000 Date: 10/09/97 From: KEN FREEMAN Time: 06:56pm \/To: BOB WALLACE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses On 10-03-97 BOB WALLACE wrote to KEN FREEMAN... BW> Ah, but in the case of U.P.'s rebuilt E-9 set, they had them tied to a BW> string of "City-like" varnish reminiscent of the handful of "City" BW> trains fielded on a daily basis by U.P. for many years, So perhaps it's as much the varnish as the power pulling them? I know of a whole buncha railfans who'd wet their knickers if they saw a Conrail freight or an Amtrak engine for that matter, pulling a set of old NYC lightweight passenger cars, still in NYC livery. BW> One thing about those E-9 A-B-A or A-B-B-A sets, they look far sleeker BW> than almost anything pulling freight _or_ passenger service today. Well sure. A-B-B-A sets of F's were pretty good too. Especially in Central. Some little shortline in Ohio ran a couple of E units in freight service this summer for the people who owned them and it made quite a stir, too. Now if our local NRHS chapter were to get out their ex US Army H10-44 and stretch it's legs on the shortline that would be pretty cool too. K -*- * OFFLINE 1.56 * Boy, could I go for a PanGalactic Gargleblaster now!!! --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: - NightWorX - *HST D/S* Roch., NY (1:260/240.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEG00001 Date: 10/09/97 From: KEN FREEMAN Time: 06:56pm \/To: ANDREW HAMBLYN (Read 0 times) Subj: Old U Bangers On 10-06-97 ANDREW HAMBLYN wrote to KEN FREEMAN... AH> Here in New Zealand we have a fleet of 48 GE u-bangers, all of which AH> are in AH> service. These are approaching 25 years old, and are still going AH> strong. AH> I really dont know why the americans get rid of locos that are only AH> 25-30 AH> years old when they have good life left in them....... Well, it depends on the model and economics. GP9's now aren't much good for mainline service, but still are great for switching and shortline duties. With most of the big freight railroads getting out of doing any local service, that makes them expendable. Same goes for yard switchers. Plus, engines like a GP9 are now almost 50 years old (some of them) and are on their third or fourth rebuild. As for GE's the big problem there is that GE never really has allowed a large amount of "aftermarket" replacement parts companies to get going. If you need parts for them, you go to GE. But, if you need something like a turbocharger for an EMD, you can go to EMD or someone like Boise Locomotive or Chrome. Even that's starting to change somewhat now, as companies like Livingston Rebuild acquire second generation GE's for leasing use. K -*- * OFFLINE 1.56 * "If it ain't broke, why repaint it?" --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: - NightWorX - *HST D/S* Roch., NY (1:260/240.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEG00002 Date: 10/09/97 From: KEN FREEMAN Time: 06:56pm \/To: BOB WALLACE (Read 0 times) Subj: excursions On 10-06-97 BOB WALLACE wrote to KEN FREEMAN... BW> Between at least two organizations in the Pacific Northwest, Amtrak BW> has BW> been running chartered trips for both the Historical Society based in BW> Portland, Oregon and another BW> with BW> a travel agency in Seattle just last May that my wife and I jumped at BW> the chance to ride on. Add to it the occasional football special here BW> in BW> the San Francisco Bay area Other than these, any BW> other sort of chartered train trip will be few and far between. Well, given the financial problems of Amtrak, my guess is that if they can make an excursion make money, they'll do it. The Bill's Special ran it's first on August 31 (just got the lowdown on it) and they ran from Albany to Buffalo with 6 ConnDot coaches, four Amfleet coaches and two cafe cars. I don't know how many riders one car can hold, but I'll bet the trip, unlike Bill's games this year, was a sellout. Unless BW> the U.P. chooses to start doing public relations in a positive way now BW> that they own most of the tracks here in California since taking over BW> the former Southern Pacific late last year Well, UP's probably got the best PR department of the class 1's. K -*- * OFFLINE 1.56 * Blue Wave: 50,000 Smurfs amusing themselves at a ballgame --- Opus-CBCS 1.7x via O_QWKer 1.1 * Origin: - NightWorX - *HST D/S* Roch., NY (1:260/240.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: EEH00000 Date: 10/12/97 From: DON DELLMANN Time: 12:36pm \/To: KEN FREEMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: iron horses While tripping merrily through the mail, Ken Freeman was overheard KF> Well sure. A-B-B-A sets of F's were pretty good too. Especially in KF> Central. Some little shortline in Ohio ran a couple of E units in KF> freight service this summer for the people who owned them and it made KF> quite a stir, too. Two of the most impressive photos I ever saw were of the same Santa Fe freight climbing Cajon Pass in the fifties. On the point were TEN F's, perfectly matched (A-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-A), and pushing were FIVE more (A-B-B-B-A). Another favorite of mine was a UP publicity photo of Alco FA-s, a beautiful yellow and grey A-B-B-A set pulling a hundred or so clean yellow stock cars. KF> Now if our local NRHS chapter were to get out their ex US Army H10-44 KF> and stretch it's legs on the shortline that would be pretty cool too. FM's are my favorite diesels! Growing up along the Milwaukee Road Mainline in the 50's I fell in love with the "Erie Builts" on the "Olympian Hiawatha". In my 8 year old ignorance, with those huge radiators on the back I thought they were Turbines. Up until he went bankrupt in late '80's a local shortline here ran Five FM's (the "last run" of one of them is in the Kalmbach video "First eneration Diesels, the Search for survivors"). Milwaukee 760 (The first locomotive built at Beloit) has been saved at the Illinois RR Museum. Don ... FAIRBANKS MORSE EATS ALCOS FOR BREAKFAST. --- * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750) DD> BW> Without going into any discussion of the latest in technology going DD> BW> into American locomotives currently, how efficient are those engines DD> BW> now 25-30 years old in comparison with those less than, say, ten years? DD>A lot of the reason has to do with the tax laws re: depreciation etc, lso, DD>the majority of locomotives on US railroads are leased rather than owned, DD>giving advantages to disposing of them before the end of their useful ife. DD>It's more complicated than I can understand though. Which might have come along shortly after all those EMD GP9/SD9 engines came down the tracks? As many times as Southern Pacific rebuilt their "Cadillacs" (the SD9s), one would have to think that the railroad owned those from the get-go, going over them every few years to keep them up and running. At the very least, it kept the former Sacramento Shops with lots of work to do. You're right, though, about how obtuse the laws and/or bookkeeping ideas might be for the average guy on the street who sees virtually nothing but new (or nearly so) locomotives pulling freight duty all over the countryside. Noted just a few days ago that U.P. is stating that their fleet of engines is the youngest around, with an average age of 13.7 years. --- # SLMR 2.1a # hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? # PDQWK 2.5 #51 --- * Origin: NetComm BBS 303-730-7045 (1:104/603.0)