--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00001Date: 01/17/98 From: ROLAND STINER Time: 10:40am \/To: DAVE GARLAND (Read 5 times) Subj: PHONE LINES DG>Well, these days they're "meant for". R/G is first line, Y/B is >second line, and when wired up to a jack, a 2-line phone can be >plugged in & both lines will be functional. Got it. Now let me get this right, there is a post out there which said something to the effect that if you live far away from the switching station (or whatever it is called) there is a possibility that you will not be able to get 56K downloads from an isp due to signal loss. True/not true? If true, wouldn't a low noise amp in line do the trick? If not true, where in the line does the signal degrade? Is it in the telco's switches? If so, what's the cure? DG>Not sure. I've seen old phones where >2 wires were connected. I >assume it was some sort of ringer selector, so you could ring some >phones but not others on the same line, but you really need someone >who knows more then me about old-time telephones to answer this one. >This is all from the days of hard-wired telephones, before any kind >of jacks. I did some asking around and one person told me he thought the additional two wires used the voltages to light the key pad of the first "princess" phones. --- OLX 1.53 Private Reply? E-Mail Me At: NK2U@JUNO.COM * Origin: John Rambo's Place (973)731-7359 Now w/USR V.Whatever 1:2605/159) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00002Date: 01/17/98 From: ROLAND STINER Time: 10:40am \/To: THURSTON ACKERMAN (Read 4 times) Subj: PHONE LINES TA>If I read your juno address correctly I gather you are also a Ham. >I am W1SHX. Maybe we can chew the rag some day when I get away frm >ths keybrd. I am also thurston.ackerman@juno.com when I really >want to reach someone. Correct and also hold the DU vanity call DU1A when I operate from the Philippines. It will expire at the end of Feb and will have to be renewed on the next trip. Speaking about Zoom modems: when I installed the modem (internal) I never installed the "software" which came with it called commit. The modem's working fine but I wonder if there is one file on that disk which would make it run better? What happens if you only use the files in your comm program and never load the commit program? Maybe I am not being specific enough. When you go into control panel and you go into the modem section there is an option to upgrade the drivers for each piece of hardware. What if you never loaded the driver for the modem and just use Procom 3.0 WIN's files? Do you need to load a driver into windows? --- OLX 1.53 Private Reply? E-Mail Me At: NK2U@JUNO.COM * Origin: John Rambo's Place (973)731-7359 Now w/USR V.Whatever 1:2605/159) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00003Date: 01/17/98 From: ROLAND STINER Time: 10:40am \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: WATER FILTERS To: Terry May Subject: Re: WATER FILTERS TM>OTOH, the IF-10A ranked only 6th out of 8 models tested in the July >CR, with the IF-100A ranked 8th. (Both use the IR10A filter.) Which parameters were ranked? Were the first 6 ranked very close together or was there a large difference in the performance? Thanks for any info you can provide. --- OLX 1.53 Private Reply? E-Mail Me At: NK2U@JUNO.COM * Origin: John Rambo's Place (973)731-7359 Now w/USR V.Whatever 1:2605/159) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00004Date: 01/17/98 From: ROLAND STINER Time: 10:40am \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: PHONE LINES To: Terry May Subject: Re: PHONE LINES TM>If you're getting 31200 connects, you should be very satisfied, >because some can't even get that, and even those who get 33600 >connects (such as myself) usually only get it in a relatively small >minority of cases. Well, the fact remains that if you're not getting 33.6 connects there is a problem somewhere in the line. I'm just curious to know where in the line the problem resides. --- OLX 1.53 Private Reply? E-Mail Me At: NK2U@JUNO.COM * Origin: John Rambo's Place (973)731-7359 Now w/USR V.Whatever 1:2605/159) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00005Date: 01/17/98 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 02:48pm \/To: ROLAND STINER (Read 4 times) Subj: PHONE LINES RS> No, but looking for a 33.6 connect. Highest connect speed RS> has been 31.200. transfer some files, note the cps rates of the transfer, that is a better indication of the speed you get. The connect speed only indicates what speed the modems negociate when connecting, they can shift up or down depending on line conditions. Whether or not you line could support X2 is a function of how many digital to analog conversions there are, there can only be one. --- * Origin: The Verplanck Point, NY/NJ, mitch@nettrip.net (1:2604/539.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00006Date: 01/17/98 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 02:54pm \/To: TOM WALKER (Read 6 times) Subj: PHONE LINES RS>> I have the Zoom 56K internal and log on to a few bbs'. The RS>> maximum connect rate I get to a board using a USR 33.6 is RS>> 31.200. I think this is a limitation of my phone lines, not RS>> the modem. TW> Sorry but you will never possabibly cxonnect to a BBS at 56K. It is a TW> specisal Portocal that will only connect ot a Central Office No, you can connect to a BBS at speeds greater than 33600, for example, at X2 rates. This DOES REQUIRE that the BBS be running an X2 I-modem and that it has an ISDN line to the central office. For example, if I had ISDN and one of those Imodems you could do X2 to me with an X2 capable modem because I am1 block from the CO, well within the distance that would support such connects. --- * Origin: The Verplanck Point, NY/NJ, mitch@nettrip.net (1:2604/539.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1M00007Date: 01/16/98 From: BOB GEARHART Time: 10:38am \/To: ROLAND STINER (Read 6 times) Subj: PHONE LINES -=> Quoting Roland Stiner to Dave Garland on PHONE LINES<=- RS> Hey, I need help with the basics, what are the yellow and black for RS> anyway? They not connected. Yellow is ground and black is for AC.. Explanation: When the princess telephone was first introduced way back, the little light bulbs in the push buttons required an AC transformer on premises to power them. Later versions were powered from the 48 volt telephone network and eliminated the transformer. The ground was used as a return for ringing current on party lines. The green wire is the tip and the red wire is the ring. The names come from their position on telephone jack cords of old. When the operator used to see a light appear on her panel, she would plug a cord into your jack and ask you "number please." The cord she used had a solid brass collar which was called the sleeve, an insulator, then a ring of metal, called the ring another insulator and a tip of metal called the tip. The telephone operators went the way of the dinosaur but the terminology remains today. The third wire used only in telephone offices for signaling is still called the sleeve. Today most phones are private lines and when the phone company sends out a ringing current to ring them, it does it on the ring and the power return is the tip. On party lines ringing curent is sent out over either the tip or the ring and returned over the ground, and the parties are refered to as the ring party or the tip party. This is how they can ring one phone or the other but not both on a two party line that shares one cable pair. A twisted pair is two wires twisted together, the reason for the twisting is to cancel out external interference. Pairs in a telephone cable (ie: 16 pairs or more) are stagger twisted, that is the number of twist per pair varies to keep the adjacent pairs from recieving crosstalk. Crosstalk is when a person on one pair can hear or be heard by a person on another. If power levels impressed upon the line don't exceed FCC mandated levels, then crosstalk does not happen, however if a modem or other device is allowed to send its data at a level higher than that, others sharing your telephone cable will be interfered with and you will be required to remove the interfering device. Most home wiring is adequate for the transmission of any speed modem, that is unless you have an extremily large home. :) If your modem is line balanced properly and there is no reason to believe that it wouldn't be, the telephone network is line balanced at their end for the utmost effiency when the line is terminated into a one phone or one device terminator. Hanging things on your telephone line other than those designed with the proper line loading can severely effect quality. The telephone line is designed and tested for voice frequencies falling in the range of 400 to 2800 hz. To send data at speeds greater than that, modem makers send approxamatly a 2400 hz signal, this keeps the telephone line current reversing itself at an acceptable rate. The data is impressed on that signal as amplitude modulation, almost the same as the AM radio broadcast signal. Problems arise when the data rate becomes to fast for the line to adjust between them. If you divide your modem speed by 2400 and divide that result by two, you will have the number of bits being impressed on one half cycle of a 2400 hz signal. Incidentally FCC rules currently limit the speed of data sent to the Telco on a standard dial tone line to 53 kbps. Bob.. --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: bloom county bbs * dearborn, mi * (313)582-0888 (1:2410/400) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1N00000Date: 01/18/98 From: DAVE GARLAND Time: 10:37am \/To: ROLAND STINER (Read 4 times) Subj: PHONE LINES RS> Got it. Now let me get this right, there is a post out there which said RS> something to the effect that if you live far away from the switching RS> station (or whatever it is called) there is a possibility that you will RS> not be able to get 56K downloads from an isp due to signal loss. We're about at my knowledge limit :). As I understand it (assuming that you only have a single A/D conversion between you and the ISP... forget 56K if you have >1 conversion) the most common problem is roll-off at the high end. RS> True/not true? If true, wouldn't a low noise amp in line do the trick? Dunno. I believe that sometimes the telco intentionally limits bandwidth in order to squeeze more calls into a single channel. In any case, if the signal is lost in the noise when it gets to you, amplifying it on your end isn't likely to help much, because you'll amplify the noise too. This is sometimes discussed in newsgroups like alt.dcom.telecom and (the moderated) comp.dcom.telecom. If you have web or ftp access, you might want to check out the Telecom Digest's website & archives. Or try HS_MODEMS, seems like the sort of thing someone over there might know. RS> I did some asking around and one person told me he thought the dditional RS> two wires used the voltages to light the key pad of the first RS> "princess" phones. That may be true. But Princess phones date from what, the early '60s, and it seems to me that the additional wires were present long before then. Regards, Dave --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Best Buy! WizInfo CBCS Minneapolis 612.721.8859 (1:282/2022) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1N00001Date: 01/18/98 From: DAVE GARLAND Time: 11:24am \/To: BOB GEARHART (Read 4 times) Subj: PHONE LINES -=> Quoting Roland Stiner to Dave Garland on PHONE LINES<=- BG> Yellow is ground and black is for AC.. Explanation: When the princess This may have been true at one point. These days, however, the codes are: Cable Pair Tip Ring(Ground) ----------- ---- ----- ------------ 2 pairs 1 Green Red 2 Black Yellow 4 pairs 1 White Blue 2 White Orange 3 White Green 4 White Brown (from: USWest Communications, "Telephone Inside Wiring Standards") [interesting history snipped] BG> This BG> is how they can ring one phone or the other but not both on a two party BG> line that shares one cable pair. Then there were the party lines with 8 parties and coded rings.. "two short rings, pick it up, that's for us", "a long and a short, pick it up quietly and listen, that's for the scandalous Miz Parker". When I was a kid, I had a high-impedance amplifier hooked up so I could listen in comfortably without the clicks and breathing noises that so often gave less techno-savvy listeners away :) -Dave --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Best Buy! WizInfo CBCS Minneapolis 612.721.8859 (1:282/2022) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 102 CONSUMER REPORTS Ref: F1N00002Date: 01/18/98 From: DAVE GARLAND Time: 11:46am \/To: ROLAND STINER (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: PHONE LINES RS> Well, the fact remains that if you're not getting 33.6 connects there is RS> a problem somewhere in the line. Alas, the telco may view it as a "feature" rather than a "problem". -Dave --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Best Buy! WizInfo CBCS Minneapolis 612.721.8859 (1:282/2022)