--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: F5G00004 Date: 04/13/98 From: IAN UNDERWOOD Time: 10:26pm \/To: PETER HARLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Digitiser versus mouse Hello Peter, 08-Apr-98 02:38:22, Peter Harle did write to Ian Underwood Subject: Digitiser versus mouse Thanks for your well put message, I'll give an impartial view based as far as possible on the way it works, not the human element :-) Mouse - needs to be set up properly, use an accelerated setting that allows slow panning with high resolution and yet with a quick movement allows the pointer to go from extreme left to extreme right Tablet - needs quite a lot of setting up - a mixture of different tablets are quite a pain to deal with and also the user might cutomise them heavily (adding lsp, other routines and 3rd party addons eg library sets, like nuts, fasteners etc) Rather hard work for the network supervisor :-) So let's compare the usage of either of the above : For the Acad "professional" if he uses the tablet in the same way that a skilled typist will touch-type without ever looking at the keys, then I would not have any comment. : For the occasional user or one that has just not got the knack "touch type" and feels he/she never will, then the mouse should be faster : The fundamental advantage of the mouse over the tablet is the fact that it can be much faster. I need to explain.... You have a drawing in front of you and you are about to move, copy or trim something, in thinking about it you eye has moved over the source and target point and the mouse is hovering over the pick points of the target. Without moving the mouse the picking can be completed and the move or copy is made with the mouse to the target/destination which you know instinctively where that is ... the mouse will already be there. :-) But NOT by making use of the pull down menus - that is for novices. Ie Not if a pull down menu had to be accessed, all relativity to the position in the drawing is lost when the user does that :-) If the left hand types commands like C Ci M T Ex Dim and also types pick points like INT END QUA MID then Acad really flies! A keyboard.lsp file helps to reduce the command set to the "hot-keys" I've used in the above example : PH> ........just explain to student that its an application PH> of CAD and that Graphics Tablets were designed to be used with PH> such software to increase overall speed and flexibility of the PH> software. Recently we've received donations of several graphics PH> tablets, as these were no longer being used by their original PH> owners. I've asked students who have worked with ACAD their PH> opinion of using a graphics tablets or mouse. Most have said that PH> very few users still use a graphics tablet. I would not disagree but as you can now appreciate it's not just a case of right and wrongs or "better/faster", experience wins over the novice with either route - but bad habits can undo it all! PH> I would have thought that the graphics tablet (GT) would have PH> been far more useful and quicker than a mouse, possibly due to PH> the delays of the pull-down menus etc. You live and learn in all walks..... PH> However, not being an experienced user, are GTs on PH> their way out? I had read that GTs were more accurate and had PH> higher resolution than a mouse From here on it's all "in my opinion and experience (as a manager and a user) and before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm entitled to my opinion as anyone else is to their's :-) Disagree - setup/config - resolution is what you set .cut PH> Whet your, (or anyone else who cares to give an) opinion? I'd like PH> to know so I can give a more honest opinion than those quoted in PH> text books. There's a lot unsaid in that many authors are novices or if I dare say it failed engineers - I haven't the time to write a book, I spend too long in front of a computer designing things; Acad is just a tool along with other bits and bobs, but it get's to be like riding a bike..... Take it from me "pull down menus" are for GUI users and slow draughtpersons PH> Thanks Peter Harle. You're very welcome - do list me in the credits :-) BTW It's also common practice amongst our more gifted full time users to use a tablet and it's puck, *and* a mouse ..... Mouse for speed and the tablet for the library and customized routines :-) (Helps if you're not totally Dos illiterate too) Tip: all .mnx .mnu references are embedded in the drawing so in a drawing office it's cool if everyone has c:\tablet (digitiser is too long) Then all drawings can be opened easily or auto-plotted by anyone, without it complaining about it's menu location - whether a mouse or tablet is used. -=> _*:Ian:*_ <= Internet: ianu@clara.net ... "Call it a hunch." -- Quasimodo --- Terminate 5.00/Pro*at Ter5.0 with Termail5.0 * Origin: A well connected point, even if I do say it from (2:253/417.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: F5G00005 Date: 04/18/98 From: PETER HARLE Time: 04:31am \/To: IAN UNDERWOOD (Read 0 times) Subj: Digitiser versus mouse -=> Quoting Ian Underwood to Peter Harle <=- Thanks Ian, for your most enlightening comments on the pros and cons of using a graphics tablet compared to a mouse for ACAD. I shall mention you in the credits. ;-) Thanks, Peter Harle --- EzyBlueWave V1.20 01fb000b * Origin: Mt.Druitt TAFE +61-2-9839-1310 FidoNet (3:713/709) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: F5G00006 Date: 05/01/98 From: STAN BIMSON Time: 12:03am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: A_CAD message echo Echo Tag: A_CAD Description: International AutoCAD/CAD Conference An echo for users of Autodesk's AutoCAD(tm), for the discussion of any aspect of this PC based CAD software. Utilities, third party software, both commercial and shareware, tips, tricks and programming of menus, font or shape files, LISP and scripts have all been talked about. All levels of users abound. Advertisements of products by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. Users may discuss their use of any CAD related software/hardware product or service. Many other CAD applications have been discussed and are considered on topic. Rule File: A_CAD.RUL International AutoCAD/CAD Conference 04/03/91 Updated: 02/08/98 o The main topic of this echo conference is AutoCAD(tm) and the use of it, add on products like third party or shareware software, required hardware, utilities, tips, tricks and programming of any facet of ACAD. Other CAD or PC CAD is also open for discussion. o Advertisements of products or services by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. o File listings are highly frowned upon but new file announcements that would benefit "the topic" will be permitted, within reason. o Product or Service announcements fall under advertisements and are not allowed. The one, and only one exception will be official "Update" announcements from Autodesk about AutoCAD(tm). o Foul or harsh language is not tolerable and will not be accepted. If you don't like what someone has to say for personal reasons, send them a reply using netmail - not echomail. o Some echoes allow aliases, but I tend not to want them. I think most of the professionals here want to KNOW who they are dealing with. I prefer full names used in the echo. o This conference is not bound by FidoNet, it's open to any network and system that wish to carry the conference. Messages in this conference should confirm with the FTSC (FidoNet Technical Standards Committee) format and must contain a tear and origin line. The tear line may not be longer than 35 characters including the --- characters. The origin line must fit on one 80 character wide CRT including the " # Origin: " text. o Eight-bit ASCII is not allowed in this conference. All characters in displayed message data (text/header) must be in the range 32 to 126, which rules out control characters. Control character can be shown as ^@ through ^_ for 0 to 31 or any character can be noted as . o Offline readers abound and offer system callers an excellent way of reading and replying to messages. These readers need to be configured to compile with the rule (above) on 8 bit ASCII characters. Make sure that your reader is configured to compile with FidoNet's standards (in all respects). o First rule of any echo is leave the moderating to the moderator. I am the moderator, if you have a problem with someone, tell me about it, don't post flames, etc. in the conference. I will take whatever appropriate action I see fit. o Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. Last Rule: Don't be annoying nor be easily annoyed. A_CAD Moderator: Stan Bimson Fidonet 1:116/32 Email cades@nashville.com --- MsgPost 1.1 * Origin: Moderator's Monthly Post (1:116/32) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: F5G00007 Date: 05/01/98 From: GARY JOHNSON Time: 07:59pm \/To: STAN BIMSON (Read 0 times) Subj: A_CAD message echo Stan, is there still a AutoCad file echo? Gary J --- FMail 0.96 * Origin: Klingon Outpost BBS (1:203/151) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: F5J00000 Date: 05/12/98 From: ROBIN CLAY Time: 11:47am \/To: STAN BIMSON (Read 0 times) Subj: A_CAD message echo Hello, Stan ! -=> 21-Mar-98 18:48:02, you to Ian Underwood SB> My first computer, I had to write a comm program in Z80 SB> assembler so I could access the main frame at the college Arrrr...when I wurr a laaad.... My first attempt (successful, too ) was in about 1982, using WNAG BASIC on a PCS2, for surveyors on site to upload readings to me in Head Office via an accoustic coupler in a public call box ! Hong Kong Mass Transit Railway... JC>> PS. I an a Acad design draftsman myself, recently started JC>> using R14. Yep got to relearn it all over again ! Then in 1990-93 (Jubilee Line Extension, then CrossRail, for London Underground) I was introduced to Intergraph's MicroStation - I had one of those workstations with twin 21" screens and a "tablet" the size of a young desk. Once I had a problem with one drawing; I went down to Intergraph in Swindon with the problem on a floppy disk; they couldn't crack it, so patched me through to their HO in Huntsville, Alabama. The guy asked me the name of the file, and pulled it up onto his screen without my even knowing ! I have very little expereince of AutoCAD - we have it here. I find it absolutely DIRE by comparison... :( > Robin rbclay@future.net.tr --- Terminate 5.00/Pro Try: http://www.CrayBBS.co.uk/foti * Origin: Coming to you from Osmaniye, Southern Turkey (2:250/410.32) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: FAS00000 Date: 06/01/98 From: STAN BIMSON Time: 12:05am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: A_CAD message echo Echo Tag: A_CAD Description: International AutoCAD/CAD Conference An echo for users of Autodesk's AutoCAD(tm), for the discussion of any aspect of this PC based CAD software. Utilities, third party software, both commercial and shareware, tips, tricks and programming of menus, font or shape files, LISP and scripts have all been talked about. All levels of users abound. Advertisements of products by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. Users may discuss their use of any CAD related software/hardware product or service. Many other CAD applications have been discussed and are considered on topic. Rule File: A_CAD.RUL International AutoCAD/CAD Conference 04/03/91 Updated: 02/08/98 o The main topic of this echo conference is AutoCAD(tm) and the use of it, add on products like third party or shareware software, required hardware, utilities, tips, tricks and programming of any facet of ACAD. Other CAD or PC CAD is also open for discussion. o Advertisements of products or services by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. o File listings are highly frowned upon but new file announcements that would benefit "the topic" will be permitted, within reason. o Product or Service announcements fall under advertisements and are not allowed. The one, and only one exception will be official "Update" announcements from Autodesk about AutoCAD(tm). o Foul or harsh language is not tolerable and will not be accepted. If you don't like what someone has to say for personal reasons, send them a reply using netmail - not echomail. o Some echoes allow aliases, but I tend not to want them. I think most of the professionals here want to KNOW who they are dealing with. I prefer full names used in the echo. o This conference is not bound by FidoNet, it's open to any network and system that wish to carry the conference. Messages in this conference should confirm with the FTSC (FidoNet Technical Standards Committee) format and must contain a tear and origin line. The tear line may not be longer than 35 characters including the --- characters. The origin line must fit on one 80 character wide CRT including the " # Origin: " text. o Eight-bit ASCII is not allowed in this conference. All characters in displayed message data (text/header) must be in the range 32 to 126, which rules out control characters. Control character can be shown as ^@ through ^_ for 0 to 31 or any character can be noted as . o Offline readers abound and offer system callers an excellent way of reading and replying to messages. These readers need to be configured to compile with the rule (above) on 8 bit ASCII characters. Make sure that your reader is configured to compile with FidoNet's standards (in all respects). o First rule of any echo is leave the moderating to the moderator. I am the moderator, if you have a problem with someone, tell me about it, don't post flames, etc. in the conference. I will take whatever appropriate action I see fit. o Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. Last Rule: Don't be annoying nor be easily annoyed. A_CAD Moderator: Stan Bimson Fidonet 1:116/32 Email cades@nashville.com --- MsgPost 1.1 * Origin: Moderator's Monthly Post (1:116/32) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 146 AUTOCAD Ref: FBL00000 Date: 07/01/98 From: STAN BIMSON Time: 12:05am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: A_CAD message echo Echo Tag: A_CAD Description: International AutoCAD/CAD Conference An echo for users of Autodesk's AutoCAD(tm), for the discussion of any aspect of this PC based CAD software. Utilities, third party software, both commercial and shareware, tips, tricks and programming of menus, font or shape files, LISP and scripts have all been talked about. All levels of users abound. Advertisements of products by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. Users may discuss their use of any CAD related software/hardware product or service. Many other CAD applications have been discussed and are considered on topic. Rule File: A_CAD.RUL International AutoCAD/CAD Conference 04/03/91 Updated: 02/08/98 o The main topic of this echo conference is AutoCAD(tm) and the use of it, add on products like third party or shareware software, required hardware, utilities, tips, tricks and programming of any facet of ACAD. Other CAD or PC CAD is also open for discussion. o Advertisements of products or services by vendors of any type or personal ads to sell software or hardware are NOT welcome. o File listings are highly frowned upon but new file announcements that would benefit "the topic" will be permitted, within reason. o Product or Service announcements fall under advertisements and are not allowed. The one, and only one exception will be official "Update" announcements from Autodesk about AutoCAD(tm). o Foul or harsh language is not tolerable and will not be accepted. If you don't like what someone has to say for personal reasons, send them a reply using netmail - not echomail. o Some echoes allow aliases, but I tend not to want them. I think most of the professionals here want to KNOW who they are dealing with. I prefer full names used in the echo. o This conference is not bound by FidoNet, it's open to any network and system that wish to carry the conference. Messages in this conference should confirm with the FTSC (FidoNet Technical Standards Committee) format and must contain a tear and origin line. The tear line may not be longer than 35 characters including the --- characters. The origin line must fit on one 80 character wide CRT including the " # Origin: " text. o Eight-bit ASCII is not allowed in this conference. All characters in displayed message data (text/header) must be in the range 32 to 126, which rules out control characters. Control character can be shown as ^@ through ^_ for 0 to 31 or any character can be noted as . o Offline readers abound and offer system callers an excellent way of reading and replying to messages. These readers need to be configured to compile with the rule (above) on 8 bit ASCII characters. Make sure that your reader is configured to compile with FidoNet's standards (in all respects). o First rule of any echo is leave the moderating to the moderator. I am the moderator, if you have a problem with someone, tell me about it, don't post flames, etc. in the conference. I will take whatever appropriate action I see fit. o Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. Last Rule: Don't be annoying nor be easily annoyed. A_CAD Moderator: Stan Bimson Fidonet 1:116/32 Email cades@nashville.com --- MsgPost 1.1 * Origin: Moderator's Monthly Post (1:116/32) --------------- Next conference: FIDO Message Area Next topic: 147 Railroad Fans FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: E5B00004 Date: 05/04/97 From: LANCE HILLHOUSE Time: 01:42am \/To: PHIL KANE (Read 2 times) Subj: More confessions of a you PK>In a message to PHIL KANE dated 04-28-97 LANCE HILLHOUSE wrote: PK> PK> LH> I don't know how strange it is but it is true. I'm sitting reading PK> PK> LH> the newspaper. They just announced Union Pacific is moving their PK> PK> LH> corporate offices to Dallas. That puts the number one and number t PK> PK> LH> railroads in the country based in Dallas. (Union Pacific and PK>Burlington PK> PK> LH> Northern Santa Fe) PK> PK> Why are they moving from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania (no, corporate PK> PK> HQ is NOT in Omaha......the UPRR HQ is.) PK> LH> They said the greatest concentration of employees (over 8,500) was n PK> LH> Texas and they were regrouping so as to be more centrally located. PK> Corporate headquarters rarely is involved with operating company PK> employees. It is usually involved in managing investments and PK> overseeing bottom-line performance of the operating companies. That may be true. Yhe reason was given to the news media as THE REASON THEY PICKED DALLAS. I don't know or care if that isn't the real reason, it was the one they gave. --- * OLX 2.2 * Military philosophy #1: Hurry up and wait. --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: Lunatic Fringe * Richardson,TX * 972-235-5288 * (1:124/2113) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: E5B00005 Date: 05/03/97 From: ALEC CAMERON Time: 10:50am \/To: DAVID EPLING (Read 2 times) Subj: More confessions of a you Hi David On (30 Apr 97) David Epling wrote to Alec Cameron... DE> MLW is Montreal Locomotive Works out of Canada Thanks- I am a slow learner. The ALCO diesels for NSW [40 class, then] were from there I believe. There seems to be little heavy industry trade AUS/ CAN. But I think we get most of our frozen chips from Canada. Colonel Sanders and Mr MacDonald seem to prefer. We call those CHIPS but the vendors say FRIES. Cheers....ALEC ... I do most of my work sitting down; that's where I shine --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: Bundanoon, Southern Highlands, NSW AUS (3:712/517.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 147 RAILROAD FANS Ref: E5B00006 Date: 05/04/97 From: WES LEATHEROCK Time: 08:54am \/To: LANCE HILLHOUSE (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: transcontinental? -=> Quoting Lance Hillhouse to Kevin Fletcher <=- KF>this confuses me. i would think that transcontinental would mean KF>across the complete continent. isn't nebraska in the american KF>mid west? if so, wouldn't that make it only a semi continental KF>railway? KF>canadian pacific built from montreal to port moody and that spanned KF>spanned the continent. LH> In the 1850=s, the railroads (plural) terminated in Missouri and LH> Nebraska. Further west was Indian Territory. It was very sparsley LH> populated and very people knew the way across. Those that did usually LH> guided wagon trains to Oregon and California. These same guides hired LH> on to guide the UP west. I believe you will find that the railroads at that time did not reach as far as Nebraska. The Missouri River had not been bridged, so they terminated on the Iowa side, at Council Bluffs, on the eastern shore of the Missouri Rivier. For the first several years after the "transcontinental" railroad was completed, passengers and freight had to be transferred by boat across the Missouri River between Council Bluffs and Omaha. This probably also accounts for the reason that mileposts on the Union Pacific between Omaha (MP 0.0) and Council Bluffs are negative, with a minus sign in front of them. The term "transcontinental," of course, refers to the railroads that completed a through route from coast to coast, except for the water transfer at Council Bluffs-Omaha. Since that time, the term transcontinental has customarily been applied to western railroads that connected the West Coast with the middle and eastern part of the country. The same usage occurs in other fields. An article in the Bell System Technical Journal many years ago about "Building the Fourth Transcontinental" telephone line was actually about building a line from Oklahoma City west to the Pacific Coast, the fourth long distance route to the West Coast (this was in the late 1920s or the 1930s). The article explained that the long distance network was already adequate and satisfactory from Oklahoma City east, and so it was only necessary to build from there west. (Naturally, since I lived in Oklahoma City, as soon as I read this I had to go out to where the article said the aerial section of the line started at a repeater station on the south side of the city. It was indeed there, and the lines looked just as the article said they would.) "Indian Territory" as a name never had a formal designation as such, but Indian Territory was generally used for the part of Oklahoma to which Indian tribes were removed, forcibly if necessary, after the 1820s or 1830s. The usage was so general (and so limited to that area) that post offices were designated "Indian Territory" (I.T.) even though there was no legal name of "Indian Territory". The land west of the Missouri River was not generally called "Indian Territory," as such, although most of the inhabitants at that time were Indians. LH> In addition to the workmen, the government troops of LH> cavalry to protect the workers and the railroad itself. LH> The indians called the steam locomotives the "Iron Horse". LH> They feared (correctly) the Iron Horse would help end LH> their way of life. Is there any basis for asserting that "Iron Horse" was a term devised by Indians? Similar terminology including "iron" occurs in many languages, including "Chemin de Fer" (Iron Road) as the name for a railroad in French, and "Ferrocarril" (same meaning) in Spanish. Surely the usage "Iron Horse" was in use well before the railroads began encroaching on the Indians' lands. LH> I suppose a more correct term would be "completed the first LH> intercontinental railroad". "Intercontinental" usually means "between continents," as in "Intercontinental Ballistic Missile" (ICBM). "Trans- continental" means across a continent, and would appear more appropriate. LH> As to whether one railroad is transcontinental, I don't LH> know. UP probably is and BNSF probably is but back east LH> with trackage rights you never are sure if it is owned LH> or trackage rights. BNSF reaches as far east as Birmingham, Alabama, but not to the Atlantic Coast. UP goes as far east as Chicago, Memphis and New Orleans, none of them on the Atlantic Coast, and all of them also served by BNSF. KF>does the u.s. have a single transcontinental (east coast to KF>west coast) railway? by that i mean owned by one company? You are correct that only CP and CN are or were truly transcontinental in the usual meaning of the word. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] --- PCBoard (R) v15.23/M 5 * Origin: Beggar's Forum IV (405) 787-2540 (1:147/58)