--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5R00047 Date: 05/20/96 From: RIC JOHNSON Time: 10:06pm \/To: CAL WEBSTER (Read 7 times) Subj: Irl CW> you notice that when penske used rules designed to favour menard's CW> engine, penskes engine and his alone was restricted. the excuse used CW> was that penskes mercedes was too dominant. well now the menard is too CW> dominant. no restrictive rules for them though. While we're basically in agreement on most of our opinions about the CART/IRL situation I'm afraid I have to take issue with most of the above. When USAC broadened their allowance of 55" of boost to encompass all pushrod engines, rather than just the production based ones, it was intended primarily to encourage development of new power plants, and in particular the Greenfield V8 which was being developed in conjunction with the Braytons. After Penske and Ilmor also took advantage of the rule and created the Mercedes pushrod before the lesser funded Greenfield ever turned a lap in competition USAC's rule change not only restricted the Mercedes to uncompetitveness, it also killed the Greenfield project as well as the plans of anyone else who might have decided to build a pure racing pushrod motor to that spec. I also don't feel that the Menard/Buick is now dominant in anything but qualification, as it has been shown time and again that even at 55" of boost the Menard still has serious drivability problems in traffic when race day rolls around, regardless of how superior they might seem in single car qualifying. While USAC has certainly created a separate niche in the rules to allow the Menard/Buick to have a chance, I don't see them as having unfairly tilted the scales, especially when they've retained the 55" maximum for Indy. rj ___ X MegaMail 2.10 #1607:"Until we hit the wall, it was a great test"-Jr. --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Iowa Midi BBS-Des Moines Ia(515)262-1370*28.8kUSR-DS (1:290/8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5R00048 Date: 05/20/96 From: RIC JOHNSON Time: 10:29pm \/To: MARTIN VINCENT (Read 7 times) Subj: Lincoln Mark VIII MV> Yesterday, spectators attending practice at Charlotte Motor MV> Speedway were able to see what had been rumored for several weeks. MV> John Andretti and his Kranefuss-Haas team tested a Lincoln MV> Mark VIII and recorded the third fastest speed behind Ricky MV> Rudd and Jeff Gordon. Seems like a lot of work to go through for an advantage that if found would be short-lived at best. With the number of aerodynamic adjustments that NASCAR has done over the past several years to try to equalize the cars, if the Lincoln did prove superior it would not be long before NASCAR either did something to slow it or speed up the others. I'm afraid that the days when the fans could point to the cars' aerodynamics being the one remaining factor that directly related to the street versions is as much a thing of the past as production based chassis. It's nearing the point when they might as well put a generic body on all the cars and just let the teams put on whatever brand's logo corresponds with their engine. rj ___ X MegaMail 2.10 #1607:"Solo 2: Your airport runway is my race track!" --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Iowa Midi BBS-Des Moines Ia(515)262-1370*28.8kUSR-DS (1:290/8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5R00049 Date: 05/20/96 From: RIC JOHNSON Time: 10:41pm \/To: RUSS DERRY (Read 7 times) Subj: MOORE vs FITTIPALDI RD> Darn, did not tape it so don't have that luxury. I thought GM had RD> completed his pass clean, CF tried to pull a Little Al, late braking, RD> late apex, and maybe get to cut in front cleanly, was not to be, ran RD> out of traction, and room. Hi Russ, My recollection of the incident is that on entering the right hander CF had been balked by backmarkers which allowed GM to try his gutsy outside move. GM was able to pull even with or very slightly ahead of CF briefly, but never actually completed the pass. CF got a better drive out of the corner and was slightly ahead of GM entering the left hander, but not enough to allow him to cut across that severely on the entry. I have to agree with most of Joe Norris' apportionment of blame as while by a strict technical definition Moore had not clearly completed the pass and therefore Fittipaldi might have had some justification for feeling that it was still "his" corner, I also think it was highly unrealistic on his part to think that with Moore still 50% alongside him that he could cut across like that and have Moore somehow miraculously avoid what seemed to be an inevitable collision, especially knowing that Moore was on the "dirty" part of the track. Or perhaps Christian just needed a Portuguese translation of that little warning stencil that reads "CAUTION: OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR". rj ___ X MegaMail 2.10 #1607:"I can resist anything but temptation..." --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: Iowa Midi BBS-Des Moines Ia(515)262-1370*28.8kUSR-DS (1:290/8) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00000 Date: 05/21/96 From: DON ROSE Time: 11:42am \/To: JOHN STRAUMANIS (Read 7 times) Subj: Indy -> DR> Wonder how many more sub standard pilots will get killed or maime -> DR> before the 500 is over this year? Will any cars finish the race? -> DR> The Indy 500 is the " Greatest De e b b -> -> You're an idiot!! Where is your respect for fellow man?? If you kne -> anything -> about anything you were gloating about - you'd know that Scaott was -> at the top -> of any heap...Indy or IRL. A man lost his life doing what he loved -> and all you -> -> can do is stand there with your dick in your hand saying I told you -> so.... -> What an asshole I can tell by your superior command of the English language that you're a typical Indy 500 "fan". --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Inner Sanctum - 4 nodes 28.8 (905)732-9826 (1:247/500.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00001 Date: 05/21/96 From: DON ROSE Time: 12:07pm \/To: RUSS DERRY (Read 7 times) Subj: Indy > Are you for real? Maybe related to Chris O possible? If you mean Chris Economaki, I'll take that as a compliment, the only motorsport journalist that knows what's really going on in American motorsport. Are you related to Paul Page? ... For sale: Hourglass for timing Windows. --- GEcho 1.11+ * Origin: Rattle Me Bones (905)685-3401 (1:247/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00002 Date: 05/21/96 From: GLEN HARNESS Time: 09:11pm \/To: DON ROSE (Read 7 times) Subj: Re: Indy > DR: Well you I.R.L. supporters, Scott Brayton bought it. Putting > DR: drivers like that who only race once a year in cars at Indy and the > DR: inevitable happens. Hey, stupid. Get your facts right if you want to gloat over someones death. SCOTT BRAYTON HAD MORE INDY 500 STARTS THAN ANY OTHER DRIVER. > DR: Wonder how many more sub standard pilots will get killed or maimed > DR: before the 500 is over this year? Will any cars finish the race? Do you really care? No, you don't. You want to use the death of a good man (one infinitely better than you I'd say) to make some political point. You are a vulture. Go crawl back to the internet where you belong. --- Opus-CBCS 1.79.x * Origin: Strawberry Fields (1:116/5.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00003 Date: 05/21/96 From: GLEN HARNESS Time: 09:20pm \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 7 times) Subj: Re: So sad! > ML: Cal, you have sunk to a new low. To use the death of Scott > ML: Brayton as part of your ongoing bashing of Indy is beneath contempt. You know, when I heard the news of Brayton's death, I entered a message in this echo wondering how long it would take the vultures to start circling and politicize this tragedy as part of the IRL sucks wars. But then I thought, no, that'd only fuel the fires, and surely there aren't any low lifes here in this echo to do such a thing, so I killed the message. Looks like I was wrong. It truely is a sad time for this sport, when peopld use the death of a good man to make some stupid jackass political statement about how "their" race is ruined, and that if GOD, er, Andrew Craig, still ran the show, Brayton would still be alive. This Webster guy and that other skunk should be banned from this echo. I know they'd have been banned on Compuserve's Motorsports forum for such tasteless remarks (and unfortunately, 4 or 5 people didn't have enough sense to hold their stupid comments to themselves and did get removed). I'm with you all the way... Glen RIP Scott Brayton --- Opus-CBCS 1.79.x * Origin: Strawberry Fields (1:116/5.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00004 Date: 05/21/96 From: CHIP SWIFT Time: 04:27pm \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 7 times) Subj: Re: Scott Brayton ML> DR> Well you I.R.L. supporters, Scott Brayton bought it. ML> ML> For you to use the death of Scott Brayton to take a shot at IRL, ML> is ML> the most class less thing I have read on this echo. The contempt that ML> any ML> true race fan holds for you is impossible to describe. ML> ML> Go crawl back under your rock. ML> Thank you Max for stating that so eloquently. If I had answered him the way I would have liked I would have surely have lost my access. The man (?) is obviously not a race fan but a "crash" fan. We can only pray that no one from Scott's family ever sees that post. ... .... a deluge of words and drop of sense. --- TELEGARD 2.99Gamma 4 * Origin: The Eagle's Nest BBS!! - 405-799-0833 (169:620/201) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00005 Date: 05/21/96 From: PASSWORD WAS KICK Time: 05:38pm \/To: CAL WEBSTER (Read 7 times) Subj: Re: So sad! CW> scott who had already qualified two cars had no business out on the CW> track in an unqulaified car. perhaps they should qualify drivers instead CW> of cars ala F1. CW> at least when penske ran 3 cars he had drivers for each one. i blame CW> first john menard for placing such a heavy workload on his drivers and CW> second i blame IRL for creating a climate that encouraged such large CW> numbers of entries from a single team. Hmmmmm, it doesnt say where you are from and I am nt sure how familiar you re with what goes on during the month of May and how it wrks here on a day to ay basis. Brayton's "workload" had nothing to do with his crash at all I think your post was premature...first, it was a sliced tire, not driver error, that caused the crash. his rear tire deflated causing the car to bottom out and, essentially, was like being on ice, he had no control...as far as the atality it was simply luck of the draw as this was not, by any means, a particularly horrendous crash, he simply hit wrong...the G forces caused a closed head wound...his helmet never hit anything nor did anyhting hit him...anyway, Brayton was not attempting to get this car ready to qualify..it was identical to the one he had on the pole and he was experimenting with various race set ups etc. This is not at all uncommon on your more weel financed teams....it allows drivers to practice and teams to experiment without putting the actual qualified car at risk...it then makes it easier when they go to set the riginal car up for the race...just thought I would let you know...dont be too hard on Menard and remember, not all teams bring every tub there to get it qualified to run... I hope this may give you a better understanding of the 500...hpe you enjoy he race, such as it will be this year.... Respectfully, A lifelong 500 fan --- MacKennel 2.2 * Origin: Party Towne Pub (1:231/65.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 142 AUTO RACING Ref: D5S00006 Date: 05/21/96 From: PASSWORD WAS KICK Time: 05:47pm \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 7 times) Subj: Re: Scott Brayton DR> Well you I.R.L. supporters, Scott Brayton bought it. ML> ML> For you to use the death of Scott Brayton to take a shot at IRL, is ML> the most class less thing I have read on this echo. The contempt that any ML> true race fan holds for you is impossible to describe. ML> Go crawl back under your rock. ML> ML> ML> ML> ML> --- I have to agree with this...I was hoping no one would even have the lack of class to say this. I am not an avid IRL supporter....I beleive both sides have issues but the sole reason that there is an Outlaw 500 this year rests with Tony George. You cant require teams to adhere to yur new rules and then if they do decide to come down and spend a month and a minimum of a million bucks to have them compete for eight spots. george messed up. I understand e is trying to get IRL ff the ground and about the only thing he has as an incentive is the 500 but fans, true fans, want to see real racing and the fastest 33 in the field ..period....bumping? there was one bump this May and we would not have had that if tony Gerge had not come off some bucks and had his companies kick in financial support to struggling teams t get them in the show...anyway, I;m off my pint...I was hoping no one wuld say "See, I tld yu they were running too fast etc" The fact is, it wasnt an inexperienced ookie who "bought it" but a very qualified driver and he did nothing wrong, it was just a racing mishap that happens...had those from CART been down here this month they would be going just as fast, you wouldnt hear them saying "the speeds are too fast, someone is going to get hurt, etc etc" Please dont use the tragic death of a truly nice man to advance yur views of this feud, they simply wont wash.... --- MacKennel 2.2 * Origin: Party Towne Pub (1:231/65.0)