--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFF00010 Date: 11/09/97 From: JOHN BODIN Time: 12:59pm \/To: OLIVER J. HANAU (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Sabacc Simulator Practicing by shooting womprats, Oliver felt was ready for the Empire. OJH> @PID: XP 3.11 R/A6936 OJH> @MSGID: 2:240/5780.28 d639b996 OJH> Hi there. OJH> Is there a Sabacc simulation available anywhere? OJH> Strip Sabacc with the Jedi Rock dancers (and Leia, of course) OJH> preferred, but I'd settle for anything. OJH> Even for the Sabbac RULES, come to think of it. OJH> Thx & may the Force be with you, OJH> Oliver. There is a windows game out there that has multiple rules. I believe that the filename was winsab??.zip I don't have it handy right now, but it originally came off the internet and I am sure there are others out there. ^ |raveller 1:2624/701.1 Fidonet Co - Sysop Bear Heaven BBS 1:2624/701 Fidonet trav1701@aol.com traveller4@juno.com http://members.aol.com/trav1701/index.html ... Oh yeah? Well my blaster rifle BEATS your Pure Sabacc! --- FMail/386 1.0g * Origin: Magical Plane --- Pleasant Valley, NY (1:2624/701.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFF00011 Date: 11/11/97 From: JOHN SNYDER Time: 12:41am \/To: KURT KLUGE (Read 0 times) Subj: Sabacc Simulator neat! if you find out where he got it from, let me know! id love to have my own sabacc player. :) | | |-O-| John | | --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0154 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00000 Date: 11/09/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 05:59pm \/To: SHAZANAH HASSAN (Read 0 times) Subj: music I like the Sneaker PImps too. But in the case of Star Wars; if its not John Williams, then its crap. Darnley Small: "R2, you don't no how to fix the hyperdrive. Chewbacca can do it!! ... "Dad! Dad! Where do you keep your guns?" -- Calvin --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00001 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: BRANDON WOLGAST (Read 0 times) Subj: Special Editions -=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Darnley Small <=- DS> I don't care, stop motion, and minitures work far better than any crappy DS> CGI. BW> Stop motion? That is gone. Yes it is gone but that doesn't mean that CGI is better, its only easier. BW> It was hard to watch and not laugh at BW> some of the AT-AT scenes in Empire. Umm, wake up. The AT-AT scenes were done perfect and didn't need the fake tinge of CGI added to them. BW> were laughable. When Han rides into the base and dismounts, you're BW> telling me that looks REAL? Come on. No it is not the best stop motion I've seen, but it kicks Sh*% over any CGI attempt. It was a pitty that GL doen't care about the movie and is only interested in the money, other wise he would have re-done those scenes in stop motion. ... "You don't know how to fix the hyperdrive" -:C3P0-:) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00002 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: BRANDON WOLGAST (Read 0 times) Subj: SW SE, CRAP 1/2 -=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Darnley Small <=- DS>SW SE was crap, any one who liked it has got a serious problem. The thing DS>that stands out in Star Wars and makes it such a great movie, is the DS>realism of all the scenes, such as the dogfighting scenes between the DS>x-wings etc, and the tie's etc. In the original version all of these DS>were done with models which made it look so realistic. The use of computers DS>in the SE to alter scenes and add in scenes made the whole thing look DS>very unrealistic. eg, in SE ANH, the final assault on the Death Star. DS>In the first scene of the final battle, we see massive group of X-wings, DS>approaching the DS, and we see the red gas planet of Yarvin behind them. DS>In the original, i agree it could have done with some touching up, but DS>not on computer, wich is the lazy way out. looking at those X-wings in DS>the SE you could immediatley tell they were done on computer, which is ot DS>good it should be that they look real, but when done on computer they don't. DS>And the added Jabba scene in SE ANH was crap, he looked like a computer. BW> Well, get used to most people not agreeing with you. Oh I am. See I realise most people who watch this stuff are not interested in anything other than the special effects, and couldn't give a damm about the quality of the movie and it story-line. Most people in this echo have no idea what a good movie is. You call it a BW> lazy way out? It is the better way out. I'll bet you anything that if BW> you were to somehow bring someone back from the past and show them Star BW> Wars, and say, "Now, one of these scenes is real, and the other is BW> faked." And show them a scene of model X-wings fighting and CGI BW> X-wings, he or she would pick the model ones. I know I would. What do you mean "one of these scenes is real and the other is faked." Um incase you don't know THEY ARE ALL FAKED. The question is which one looks the most realistic; i don't care how good it looks:CGI, for graphics I'm talking about how real it look. That was one of SW major appeals, now GL screwed that good. You say BW> the CGI looks CGI, well the models LOOK like models. In fact, every BW> CGI scene in Star Wars was amazing, and it is sad to say, but true, BW> that some of the model scenes were pathetic. If Lucas had honestly BW> felt that to make new model footage would be better than CGI, HE WOULD BW> HAVE DONE IT. Money was not a problem for him, and had the picked BW> models, I'm sure it could be done a lot faster than back in 1976. Not BW> to mention the CGI you saw were DIRECT scans of the REAL models which BW> you so love. What you saw on the screen were the real honest models BW> just manipulated by a computer. And to be honest with you, I'm sure BW> you can do far more detail in CGI than you can with a model. How wrong you are. "the CGI looks CGI, well the models look like models" wrong, the CGI looks like CGI, the models are models and look like the closest thing you'll get to the real thing. You see, you have to understand this. If they built a full sized real x-wing then it would look like real human textured earth based stuff, not computer graphics. Basically it would look like one of our jets, it would be made of metal like jets are. And if they couldn't afford to build the full sized one, then the next best thing is a scaled model of the original, a scaled model of the original would mean it is the exact same x-wing but smaller, the paint, textures, etc would be real and the same as the original. If I wanted for example, a Ferrari or the closest looking thing to it, then the closest looking thing would be a scaled model; say 1/4 of the original. All the materials put into the original Ferrari could be used in the model so it is the exact same car but it is smaller. And if you can understand any of this, then you should be able to understand the logic behind the realism of stop motion camera work; the use of scaled models; maybe not the same textured metals, but with the right paint jobs, you wouldn't be able to tell the diff. CGI, does no look like the real original subject, it looks like a cheap imitation. I think you would have a better chance of fooling a jewler with a fake model of the crown jewls, than an even faker looking CGI version. The model is as good as it gets, you can't beat it, because it is the same as the original only smaller. CGI is an easier much quicker shortcut to an inferior product. Maybe some of the stop motion didn't look that good. Well that can only be said about the first movie and tiny parts of the others. But if GL realy cared about the quality of the movie then he would have gone through and re-done the bad stop motion bits, by replacing them with high quality stop-motion scenes. But sadly GL only cares about the money, which I didn't believe until the SE. Money is not a prob in the making of the SE for GL. Its the money he wants from the finished product that is his problem. And full credit to the guy, for being such a well trained businessman. He knew more people would go to see the movie if it contained CGI, because we are in a age where that is the expected thing; but not the best. What Lucas felt was that he could make more money by using CGI. Don't give me that crap that the CGI was direct scans of the models, because all the CGI had the computer tinge, if they were scans then they were a joke and whoever did it should be sacked. And don't try and blame it on the appearance of the models, because you can't get that fakeness in reality. Yes you probably can do more detail in CGI, but it goes to far on the detail. One question do you agree that time was a big factor in fixing up the movies. Because he didn't do a very good job. Some of the film quality was beyond crap, and a lot of the added scenes were rushed and not edited properly. BW> Jabba you are way off with. THat was my single favorite added scene BW> in the entire movie. That shows how much taste for quality you have. I'm not realy knocking your taste, just your quality judgment. That scene sucked big time. Han looked real, because he was, while Jabba looked like a cut scene from a star wars game. That scene realy showed how crap CGI is, you can't combine CGI with real textures. He looked amazing. For the first time in a BW> science fiction movie we have an aliens who looks *REAL*. The Jabba in BW> Return of the Jedi looks like a big hunk of latex crud that can hardly BW> move with people inside of it having a hard time. He actualy looks organic, real, not like a computer. Oh and latex is real. CGI isn't. And you better get BW> used to CGI Jabba,he will appear again in one of the new movies. The BW> Jabba in Jedi just sat there and moved his mouth up and down. The CGI BW> Jabba looked FAR more real. Moved, showed emotion, his "lips" moved and BW> he was articulate. Again, if you showed both of those to someone who BW> thought that one of them was real, and one was false, I'll bet that BW> that person would pick the CGI as the real one and the crappy puppet as BW> the fake one. Whatever you say. So what if he will appear like that again, that doesn't make it good. Articulate what the hell does that mean -to you. Jabba is a gangsta boss who doesn't take sh%* from no one. Maybe he was a bit more trusting in those times but come on can't you see the process jabba goes through, between ANH and ROTJ. DS> I agree for a computer it looks good; good graphics; but on the DS>screne where you want see realism, doesn't work. You can't combine computers DS>with humans, and real textures/ entities, on the big screne it just doesn't DS>work. BW> Well, to most people it does. And to people who have far better eyes BW> for this than either you or me, it works. If they had half as good eyesight as me, then they would be able to see how bad it looks. And I bet you they have good eyesight like me. Lucas would not allow BW> anything less than steller to happen, and neither would FX technicians BW> as it is. Crap on. Lucas only cares about the money, and nothing else, same for FX technicians. "hay Lucas this CGI scene doesn't look to good, we should think of something else"-tech "Nah it will cost to much money and time to do it another way. How about I just wave this nice big fat cheque infront of your face and you'll be happy"-GL "You know what it looks fine to me now"-tech It is their art, their trade, if they felt that regular BW> models would have been superior, they would have used them. They did BW> not have to go the CGI route, but they did. Why? It looks better. Your faith in your technology is your weakness. First its their trade, they get paid for it, yep you got that right. But its not their art, they have no idea what the word means, and i'm sure you don't either. Yes they had to go the CGI way othere wise it would have cost them more in money, time, and profit. DS> SE ESB: Not so recked by computers this time, but rather by Cloud DS>City. When we first see the falcon passing through cloud city we saw a great DS>shot of the re-inhanced cloud city, where the Falcon was passing between DS>some buildings, and that is all we needed, we didn't need endless shots DS>of the city to show us how many pictures they have of the city. DS>Even inside the city every window -which i might add didn't look like it had DS>any glass in it- had a shot of the outside cloud city. Which was not in the DS>original, the original didn't have so many windows, it was realistic. BW> No windows is realistic? What? In the original it looked like BW> windows with a fake painted backdrop hanging outside of it. As I recall it, that was in one scene. And it was an outside shot looking back at the outside of the city and Leia looking out the window. That was the only window shot. Now, in BW> the Special Edition, when looking out of the windows, you can actually BW> see this huge city, this metropolis floating in the sky. Why did they put all those fake looking windows in, they weren't there in the original. I'm sorry to say but the place was a mining facility, not a tourist resort. DS>I didn't like it when Lando announced that the city had been taken by the DS>empire, and we immediatly cut to a shot within the city of 3 actors, DS>who are standing there and listening and then move off quickly. These people DS>looked liked they had been plucked off the street to do that scene. BW> We saw a scene with three or so people and then you forget to mention BW> it switched to a scene of a gigantic gathering outside. It was to just BW> show the viewer how big this place is. Had they had three people in BW> the original, you would not have said that. You're actually quite BW> funny. Yeah I wouldn't have brought it up because they wouldn't look so fake combining 1976 scenes with 97 scenes, if that was in the original then it would all be 76 scenes. DS>And why did we need to see Vader arive on his SD Executor after he had kicke DS>Lukes ass. Any one who didn't get that in the original -why they didn't show DS>it- is pretty dense. And what was that crappy scream Luke let out as jumped DS>off the edge in the city. He chose to jump he was peaceful in doing so. The DS>was no need for such a crappy scream to be added. Oh yeah i nearly orgot. DS>what about at Hoth where we see Han and Leia fighting in the halls. And BW> The Vader scene was just added "because." I don't think any didn't BW> "get" it that he had returned. It just made it a tad more "tense." what are you trying to say. I don't uderstand your grammer. BW> Even if you had scene it before, it had a different feeling. Almost as BW> if it was a race between Vader getting back to his ship and the Falcon BW> getting away. We didn't need to see Vader ariving but, that was a waste. You should have realised what was happening without seeing that. Now, the dubbed voice on Vader was awful. That was BW> hard to watch. NOw THAT actor they plucked off the street. I agree BW> with you and the jump. When Luke fell it looked FAR better than in the BW> original. Did he need to scream though? No. That did defeat the BW> purpose of it. DS>the scene goes: DS>Leia: Your imagining things DS>Han: Am I? Then why are you following me? Afraid I was going to leave DS> without giving you a good bye kiss? DS>Leia: I'd just as soon kiss a wookiee. DS>Han: I can arrange that. (And then calls out as he is walking away) DS> You could use a good kiss. DS>This las line "You could use a good kiss" was not in the special, so they DS>had started to cut the lines. What was this crap. BW> Hmm... it's in my version. as far as I know you can fainly hear it. DS> SE ROTJ: Not good. How dare they change the music in Jabba's palace DS>and in the final end scene of the ewok celebrations. How dare they. That DS>end one sounded more like something from Pocahauntas. And why did we see so DS>many scenes of Bobba Fete doing nothing. The original didn't obsess over him BW> "How dare they"?? The original ending was ALWAYS laughable. EVen BW> before the Special Edition. I don't think anyone really liked it, BW> except for the fact that it was "humerous." "Numb nuts, Lukes got the BW> numb nuts! Numb nuts ready to go..blahblahblah!" That is what the BW> Ewoks are saying you know. The new ending was amazing. The music was BW> peaceful yet happy and just felt good. I don't care what the Ewoks are saying, its Ewok language not english. The original ending was perfect, it sound good, looked good; perfect. The new ending music sounded like it was from Pocahauntas. DS>And for those people who can't figure it out, the final scene where it pans DS>accross the cities is not one city but: Mos Eisley, Cloud City, And Courasca DS>Courascant looked more like New York than an Imperial Stronghold; yet anothe DS>dissapointment. BW> If that is New York, I'm there. You're telling me GIGANTIC sky BW> scrapers (far bigger than in New York), flying vehicles, gabillions of BW> people, lights coming out the center of buildings, transport vehicles, BW> statues of the Emperor being toppled, look like New York? I've been to BW> New York, and, well, it looks nothing like that. Not at all. The style of the city scene looks exactly like NY, its futuristic, but the style is the same. And why was the statue of the Emperor being toppled, it was the imperial seat of the galaxy, the finest imperial stronghold, the Emperor's home, there is no way they would be celerbrating, more like mourning and preping for battle. DS>The use of computers truely wrecked what could have been a good SE. Computer DS>have no place in film what so ever. I realy do hope that something DS>goes wrong and the prequels are not able to be finished. Because DS>I would hate to see them wreck the Star Wars saga. I it is obvious DS>that computers will be used in the prequels, and it is obvious that DS>they will wreck its quality. >>> Continued to next message ... "You won't convert me as you did my father"-Luke-:) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00003 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: BRANDON WOLGAST (Read 0 times) Subj: SW SE, CRAP 2/2 -=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Darnley Small <=- >>> Continued from previous message BW> No place? How then would you have even had the Death Star readout in BW> Jedi? That was done on computers. Do you really mean NO PLACE? If BW> so, not a single sci-fi show would ever have a computer screen. They BW> used graphics as far back as in the original Star Wars which came out BW> in 1977. Remember the pilots being briefed on the trench run? That BW> was CGI. ARE YOU LISTENING. I don't think so. LET ME MAKE IT CLEARER. COMPUTERS HAVE NO PLACE IN THE MAKING FILMS, sure maybe in editing and such other grounds, but not in any of the appearences of the scenes. BW> And you say you had not posted this before, but I've seen this message BW> about three times now. There is no need to post it AGAIN after this. BW> And if you think CGI will wreck the new movies, well, don't see them. BW> Yoda is even going to be CGI at times in it, and, well, CGI is going BW> to be all over the place in them. If I were you, I would avoid them BW> when they come out. It seems you are mad at others for liking BW> something. The originals will never been released again. Not on tape BW> or anywhere. It will be the Special Edition pretty much forever now. BW> So, you will always have your tapes of the originals if you want. BW> Every child growing up who has never seen the movies will see the BW> Speical Editions and nothing else. 99% of the people who watch them BW> will watch the SEs. I'm just eagerly awaiting them on DVD. Yeah yeah, whatever. Let me just say that I am mad at others, who were fans of SW before the SE, and now accept the SE. Why they accept it I don't know. Maybe their too gulable, not real fans, don't undersand the film, etc. P.S. You write a lot. ... "They call them a Royale with Cheese"-Vincent Vega, Pulp Fiction:-) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00004 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: KURT KLUGE (Read 0 times) Subj: Your opinion I think you got it. Oh and GL is just after the money. ... "They call them a Royale with Cheese"-Vincent Vega, Pulp Fiction:-) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00005 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: MATT SCHULZ (Read 0 times) Subj: Special Editions -=> Quoting Matt Schulz to Brandon Wolgast <=- -=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Darnley Small <=- BW> Stop motion? That is gone. It was hard to watch and not laugh at some BW> of the AT-AT scenes in Empire. I was hoping to god they would CGI them. MS> It makes me sad when I see that little pole coming out of the MS> snow to make the AT-AT tip over. They could have at least covered that MS> up, quite easily. Sure, and thats what the SE should have been about; fixing up the bugs in the movie, not stuffing it up with CGI. ... "They call them a Royale with Cheese"-Vincent Vega, Pulp Fiction:-) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00006 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: JOHN SNYDER (Read 0 times) Subj: Prequel Technology -=> Quoting John Snyder to Matt Schulz <=- -> the Republic will still most likely have a military force of its own. -> Perhaps that is what will become the Imperial Navy once Palpatine -> gains control of it. JS> woah! light bulb over my head, man! "Republic Stormtroopers"! Wouldnt JS> that rock? theyd be THE GOOD GUYS! badass.... what ever. Just as long we don't see any x-wings, or a-wings until the Emperor is fully in control. ... "You don't know how to fix the hyperdrive" -:C3P0-:) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 138 STAR WARS Ref: EFG00007 Date: 11/07/97 From: DARNLEY SMALL Time: 01:55am \/To: JOHN SNYDER (Read 0 times) Subj: Tarantino -=> Quoting John Snyder to Matt Schulz <=- -> about it and of course haven't seen it, and you want QT to direct -> it?!? Let me tell you, that last part is the crap! -> The new film, just like the trilogy you love so much, is being -> created with children in mind, in case you forgot. That's right, it's -> Star Wars. So, maybe you've just outgrown this whole thing, huh? JS> i think its pretty obvious tha Darnley is a 15-year old average JS> american kid who doesnt have any opinions of his own, and instead JS> relies on recycling current popular opinions, i.e. dissatisfaction with JS> the SE's and the idea that Quentin Tarantino is God The Director. I have no idea what your on about, I can't remember what i said about QT, probably something along the lines of The SE will be so crap, you might as well get QT to direct it. Why did I say that, well for one Samuel Jackson (not sure on spelling -sorry) is gonna be in the new films. Which I just can't see happening. But he's not gonna make it crap; GL is. Just hope Sam can get some good lines in. Oh and that QT bit was sarcastic if you can't tell. ... "They call them a Royale with Cheese"-Vincent Vega, Pulp Fiction:-) --- FMail 1.20 * Origin: Reggie's BBS Bomaderry NSW Australia +61 02 4421-0720 (3:624/220)