--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00006 Date: 07/01/97 From: MIKE BOURNE Time: 9:11:am \/To: BRIAN WATKINS (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: Summer Camp BW> I know that I should have pulled the traier BW> up to camp; gear BW> was stacked higher than cab of truck and hanging over BW> the sides. Big BW> problem was one boy brought a roll away bed and I guess that he wanted to be comfortable. I hope that he did not have a tentmate, as it would be a bit tight. BW> another brought his mountain bike. That might not be a bad idea. It would make getting around much easier. He did bring a helmet, didn't he? BW> Give me a call or email me before thursday morning and BW> I will try to give my Phlimont list. Will do. Later. Mike Bourne --- QM v1.00 * Origin: A Point at the Edge of Town (Ft. Worth, TX) (1:130/209.6102) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00007 Date: 07/01/97 From: BRIAN WATKINS Time: 08:00pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: July 1 To all above the northern boundery, have a wonderful Happy Canada Day. ... Catch the Blue Wave! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 * Origin: Texas Hot Air! * Flower Mound, TX (1:124/8057) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00008 Date: 07/01/97 From: BRIAN WATKINS Time: 08:06pm \/To: MIKE BOURNE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Hello MB> It is always fun to launch the rockets. The Scouts (and leaders) have MB> a great time running them down when the wind catches them. By the Way, how far up do these rockets go up anyway? Have ya seen any major accidents? MB> We leave Friday morning early, so I'll need to hear from you before MB> you head out to summer camp. I will try to give ya a call before then. I really hope you take the crew to the Villa tour and the Kit Carson Museum. You gotta see the sunrise on top of the Tooth. Its cool. MB> I think we will be looking at the end of August or the MB> first part of September. I'll let you know, as soon MB> as I know. Well, let me know. This will be a fun outing. Brian Watkins ... Catch the Blue Wave! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- ViaMAIL!/WC4 v1.30 * Origin: Texas Hot Air! * Flower Mound, TX (1:124/8057) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00009 Date: 07/01/97 From: DON BACH Time: 07:09pm \/To: ROBIN CLAY (Read 0 times) Subj: OLD SCOUTERS TRIVIA... PC> How was your trip back to England? RC> It starts on Sunday ! YAYYYY !!! RC> But it's only for a week ... Robin, I've finally found a way for a civil engineer (me) to have *major* projects near home. I'm now the engineer in charge of water and wastewater treatment plants in Jackson, Mississippi. We stay under construction. My boss, an electrical engineer who was in charge of a good portion of the area for the local power company, is on the BOD of the Andrew Jackson uncil. Enjoy your week at home! YIS, Don Assistant Scoutmaster, Andrew Jackson Troop 88 --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00010 Date: 07/01/97 From: FORREST SMITH Time: 04:51pm \/To: ALL SCOUTS (Read 0 times) Subj: Help The following letter was sent off to the National Council in Texas and pretty much explains what is going on in our small community. I would appreciate any input that anyone may have and/or any suggestions as one can see, things have not been done correctly.. Thanks for your help July 1, 1997 susan Smith 14450 N.E. 188th Place Fort McCoy, Florda 32134 Boy Scouts of America National Office P.O. Box 15207 Irving, Texas 75015-2079 Attention: Mr. Jere Ratcliffe, Chief Scout Executive Re: North Florida Council, Youth Protection, Mr. Travis Johns and Investigation of Pack 953 Dear Mr. Ratcliffe, I am writing this letter to you in hopes of some clarification as to what has happened between 2 local Cub Scout Packs, Pack 504 and Pack 953, located in fort McCoy, Florida. I know not if you are aware of any problems or an investigation that has taken place concerning Pack Leader Shelly McDonald of Pack 953. I will explain that I am only a concerned parent that has a handicapped son that joined scouting last November of 1996. Due to my son's condition, I was a little more involved with things then the normal parent and so therefore have a bettwer insight as to what is and has gone on concerning these Packs. In November, we joined Pack 504 in Fort McCoy. That was the only pack in existence in our area as we live in a rural country type setting. I attended everythingwith my son in order to make certain that he was able to handle the new situation. I was an assistant Den Leader while at Pack 504. I was totally amazed at the disorganization of the Pack. All during the so called meetings, boys were running in and out and there was little or no control over these children. It was my understanding that activites and outings would be planned as a den and as a pack. In the 4 months that I stayed with Pack 504 there was only one sleep over at the church that was sponsoring us. This was a disappointment. I also had the misfortune of attending the committee meetings. The Church representative onlly seemed concerned with "their cut" of the money and Money was the main object of discussion. I do understand that this is a necessity in order to keep things running smoothly, however it should remain as a necessity and not an obsession. Still though, I hung in there only due to my son's involvement as he found the activiy of children running rampant at the meetings quite entertaining. I was not aware of any problems concerning individuals of the Pack at this time. Around December there was an emergency meeting held in regards to Shelly McDonald as she had resigned from the Pack. I attended this meeting as I didn't know what was going on and I did not really know Ms. McDonald at this time. However, my husband, who was also Den Leader for Webelos for this same pack informed me later of who Ms. McDonald was and her position within the pack, which was Den Leader of the 2nd Wolf Pack that I was not affiliated with since they did not have their meetings at the Church. This emergency meeting that was called was to inform the parents and all that attended of the resignation of Ms. McDonald and what a terrible person she was! I was informed that our children was not safe with her, yet no actual events were described. I was told that she was "head strong" and was out to make the Pack look bad because she was having too many field trips and outings for her boys. These people were so convincing that one of the parents stated that she should be "locked up". Yet another incident was that she used profanity to another one of the Den Leaders while inside the Church. I later found that Ms. McDonald did indeed have a discussion involving another den leader and that she did say one curse word, which she later admitted to and made a public apology, even though no one else heard her. I was almost led to believe the accusations made by Pack 504 leaders. However my husband stated that before I decide on what was going on that perhaps I should contact Ms. McDonald and find out what her side of the messy story was. So I did just that, even though I did not know this woman. In talking with her at length one evening, I became convinced that not all the facts were in order in accordance with what I had been told from Pack 504. I decided to think about things for a couple of days and even see if I could convince my son to withdraw from scouting. Just after Christmas, the den leader of our den, Ms. Howard, called me and told me that she had resigned and was going to go with another new pack in Fort McCoy, which was led by Ms. McDonald and was known as Pack 953. I was amazed that Ms. McDonald had obtained another pack as those at 504 stated that she would not be able to ever have a pack of her own and that her intentions were to "run them (504) out of town" as she was stealing their people. I found also that the reason for Ms. Howard's withdrawing was due to lack of support for a new leader and most but not least due to an individual that was talking down to her and treating her in a simpleton type manner.This particular person even mentioned to her that if she had a brain in her head she would be able to figure out how to play a certain cub scout game that this individual was attempting to explain to her. I can assure you that Ms. Howard, the den leader of our den, was not a "pea brain" as she was referred to, but only was a little overwhelmed with how to do things as a den. I attended another meeting of our den with 504. When I arrived, the Church Representative entered the small church room and asked me what had happened to Ms. Howard. At first I told him that I didn't know but she had gone to another pack. And then in conversation I told him that this individual had spoken to her in a condescending manner on several occasions and that she did not have to put up with that. He went into a rage and stated, "It's Shelly McDonald! She is out to get us and I WON'T Allow it!" He then stomped off and out of the room. It was at this point that I decided that I was in the wrong pack. I am a firm believer in God and we attend church on a fairly regular basis, I know that the above attitude and statement was not what I expected to hear, especially from a Church Represetative. It was at this point that I decided that I too would resign and contact Ms. McDonald to see if she had indeed started her own pack. I called her that evening and was informed that she had been able to start her own pack, now know at 953. I told her I wanted to move my son to this pack as I no longer wanted anything to do with the constant backstabbing of pack 504. She informed me that my son would be welcomed and that she was being accursed of taking all of the wolf cub scouts from 504 but other parents, like myself, had contacted her. It was through word of mouth from the children's parents that had everyone switching over to Ms. McDonald's pack. I attended many of her meetings and her pack meetings. I assisted on field trips also. I have never been more impressed with this woman's ability to handle 17 boys as she did. The Den was a great accomplishment and was nothing like the one we had just left. Things were orderly and planned out. The boys met their goals with enthusiasm instead of faltering along the wayside and if one of the boys was having a problem, I would observe Ms. McDonald herself attempt to help him over the hurdle. Ms. McDonald palnned various outings for the kids and usually averaged about one trip a month. during this time I came to know Shelly quite well and she began to confide in me some of the problems concerning Pack 504. The certain individual who she had problems with was still keeping things "alive" by spreading rumors that wasn't true. You must understand, that this is a very small "countrified" atmoshere out here. We have one large school that houses children from pre-k to 8th grade. ms. McDonald is also a volunteer with the school and has been for some time. She has passed extensive investigation of her background by the Marion County School Board. She was also the assistant coach for Ocala Youth Baseball Association, which also did an investigation on her. She passed all of these with flying colors and it is no wonder as she is a person that get enjoyment out of her dedication to help others and watch them grow. Recently I have been informed that pack 504 has accused Ms. McDonald of child abuse, racism, keeping a feud going between packs, encouraging her boys from her pack to pick on the boys from 504 and generally creating a ruckus. she would tell me of different incidences of accusations being made and would be horribly upset in regards to same. I attempted to calm her and told her the best thing to do was to ignore it. This is what she did and now things have gotten way out of control. To begin with, when I took over for den leader in pack 504, there was only 2 boys there. Everyone else had either dropped out due to the unoranized commotion or had withdrawn and moved to Ms. McDonald's pakc. When I left I had the parent of one of the boys call me and demand to know what was going on. I told her both sides of the stories I had heard and told her she would have to make up her mind int he matter just as I did. she also transferred within a couple of weeks. The last that I know of, was a recent investigation being conducted by a Mr. Travis Johns of Youth Protection out fo the North Florida Council in Jacsonville, Florida. During the investigation I can only assume that he found it easier to imply that Ms. McDonald's pack would be shut down due to ongoing problems if th calls from pack 504 didn't stop. What type of investigation was done? Why were the parents not contacted in regards to what was happening or questioned? Ms. McDonald had put her all into this pack and it was obvious in the progression of her boys . More to come in next message. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Inner Sanctum - Full Internet Svc (813) 848-6055 (1:3619/21) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00011 Date: 07/01/97 From: FORREST SMITH Time: 05:09pm \/To: ALL SCOUTS (Read 0 times) Subj: continued message and plea for hel I am amazed that one individual can not only completely destroy a person of high standing within our community but also destroy 17 boys lives and hopes and desires of scouting. My son has not been informed of Ms. McDonald's resignation from cub scouts. i do know that he, along with all of the other boys involved, will be desastated to learn of the outcome. i know that I, along with the other parents of the 17 boys will not return to Pack 504 and since we live so far from a major city we will discontinue scouting all together. It is my understanding also that Mr. Travis Johns contacted the school where Ms. McDonald volunteers at and spoke with the principal, Mr. Cox. he gave her a very high recommendation and then told Mr. Johns that if she was not allowed to hold her meetings at the school that he didn't want anything to do with scouting at all, including next school years round up. I am appalled of the outcome concerning this. I would have contacted Mr. Johns directly but was told of his final words to Ms. McDonald and her husband which was as follows, "Oh, go ahead and have your parent's write me letters, I enjoy getting junk mail." If this sort of thing is allowed to continue I will lose all faith in the Boy Scouts of america. I am still in shock that this incident has been allowed to go as far as it has. I am very dissatified with the so called investigation out of Jacksonville. I can only hope that you will check into this situation and create a full investigation rather than a hersy investigation that was obviously done. Sincerely, sue smith cc: North Florida Council 421 S. Edgewood Ave. Jacksonville, Fl 32205 Shelly McDonald Fort McCoy, florida **************************************************************************** Now a little bit about myself...when I was a young man I was a boyscout in the National Area council in the Baltimore council and it was some of the best times in scouting I have ever had. As an adult, I have my oldest son in the Central Florida council as a cub scout and never experienced any problems. I am a firm believer in the scouting way and the reason for this letter is to appeal to scouts everywhere, even if you agree or disagree with what was said in the letter, someone does need to conduct an investigation into this matter. I can not believe that a simple solution of 2 packs existing in the same town is not feasable and just to cut out the petty nonsense of "he said she said". This is all originating from only one person from pack 504. It would be a shame that a person like Shelly McDonald, who is an excellent leader, is being outsted on heresy when scouting needs all the good leaders it can get.. Please respread the word, reprint this and whatever you can do (write letters, call etc) right or wrong that everyone needs a fair shake and deserves a full fledged investigation involving everyone and not just a select few. As far as 504, it is chartered from a Methodist Church and I have never seen such hatred and unforgiving Christians and this makes me ashamed as a scout. Thank you for your time in reading this and your consideration in this tter. sincerely, Forrest Smith --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Inner Sanctum - Full Internet Svc (813) 848-6055 (1:3619/21) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00012 Date: 07/02/97 From: DAVID GILES Time: 06:29pm \/To: TAMMY WILSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Badge trading.. TW> David Giles was chatting to Tammy Wilson and whispered: DG> North Bay is in Northland Region. I am in Ottawa for the summer, DG> at NCR. TW> hadn't seen any mail in this area for a while, and TW> then today, it came in like a big truck.. sorry TW> for the delay! No problem. David --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The BullPen, Ottawa Can. V34* (1:163/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00013 Date: 07/02/97 From: DAVID GILES Time: 06:35pm \/To: DON BACH (Read 0 times) Subj: Connections DB> Hi! DB> Is anyone getting this? I've send several messages DB> in this conference but not gotton replies. I have DB> a feeling my messages aren't getting out. The DB> latest message was about staying on the U.S.S. DB> Alabama. DB> YIS, DB> Don DB> Assistant Scoutmaster, Andrew Jackson Troop 88 Hi Don! Coming in loud and clear in Ottawa, Ont. CANADA... the Nation's Capital! YIS David Giles --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The BullPen, Ottawa Can. V34* (1:163/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00014 Date: 07/02/97 From: DAVID GILES Time: 06:39pm \/To: BRIAN WATKINS (Read 0 times) Subj: RE: July 1 BW> To all above the northern boundery, have a wonderful Happy Canada Day. Thanks... I still call it Dominion Day. I saw HM The Queen on the Royal Visit to Ottawa on July 1st. What an honour! Have a pleasant Independance Day. YIS David Giles --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The BullPen, Ottawa Can. V34* (1:163/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 130 SCOUTING Ref: EBC00015 Date: 07/02/97 From: MIKE BOURNE Time: 7:43:am \/To: BRIAN WATKINS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Hello BW> By the Way, how far up do these rockets go up anyway? The single stage ones will go up to a couple hundred feet. Far enough so that with any wind (when is Texas without wind) it can be a challenge to recover them for the mandetory second launch. BW> Have ya seen any major accidents? We practice pretty strict safety, so I've *never* seen anyone hurt, unless they trip and fall chasing after the rocket on the return trip to the ground. :-) BW> I will try to give ya a call before then. If I'm not here, I'll call back. BW> I really hope you take the BW> crew to the Villa tour and the Kit Carson Museum. We are going to try to see one before we hit the trail and the other when we return to base camp. BW> You gotta see the BW> sunrise on top of the Tooth. Its cool. We *should* be close enough at the camp the night before to do this, and we are going to try. BTW, I got myself a small camera about the size that you took last year. I took a roll of film with it and had it developed. They looked great. I've got 10 rolls of film packed to take with; 8 for the trail, and 2 for base camp and the trip to and from. Since 4 of the rolls are 36 exposure, I hope that is enough. :-) Mike Bourne --- QM v1.00 * Origin: A Point at the Edge of Town (Ft. Worth, TX) (1:130/209.6102)