--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00031Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:03pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Linux Vs Windows Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Jack Stein: BW> On (30 May 98) Jack Stein wrote to Mathieu Bouchard... JS> Tell me, what operations does a BBS perform that is not JS> standard on any PC? Mission Critical is a term that is JS> over-used and really applies to most anything you do with a JS> computer. If you are D/L'ing a 115 meg windows game while your JS> finishing up your term paper that MUST be in tommorrow, and the JS> system crashes AND wipes out your term paper, that is mission JS> critical. JS> Everything I do is mission critical to me, I want a stable JS> system, and I want a flexible system and I want a system that JS> will handle multi-tasking with ease. DOS/WIN is NOT that JS> system, it is designed poorly from the ground up. OS/2 and UNIX JS> are designed very well from the ground up, and it shows in JS> every phase of your computing other than availability of JS> software at Kmart. BW> ROTFL! Tell that to my ISP who is running under UNIX. What does that have to do with a BBS running the same computer operations as any other computing tasks? BW> A few weeks ago. As I got rudely disconnected and a phone call BW> from my ISP called me up very frazzled and demanded that I BW> immediately stop using Microsoft products on his servers! BW> As he immediately explained that my Microsoft products was BW> locking up his UNIX servers. He claimed he had nothing but BW> problems with customers using Microsoft software. And I BW> think I know why. As he doesn't really know hardly anything BW> about Windows anyway. And he didn't even know what a MOV BW> movie file was. That has to be the dumbest story I've heard in a good while. Thanks for the laugh Bill. BW> This guy calls himself an engineer. You call yourself a digital engineer, at least he is smart enough not to run MS products, so he's certainly ahead of you in the smarts department. BW> I laughed and I told him that I have been using Microsoft BW> software on his servers for a long time now and his UNIX BW> server problem is coming from somewhere else. Apparently he BW> must have found something on his end, because everything BW> has gone back to be working fine again. I believe this guy BW> hates Microsoft worse than you do, Jack. Imagine, demanding BW> his customers to not have the freedom of choice! Perhaps he's the guy your buddy, Jonathan Swift was speaking of? BW> AOL Member since 1986 Only you would brag about something so stupid. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00032Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:10pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Flexibility Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Jack Stein: AH> That's one way linux will win the war. TBK> What war? JS> The "desktop" war that IBM declared "over" BW> Just because the creator of the IBM-PC says something is BW> over doesn't make it so. IBM has had very little to say BW> about the PC for many years now. Good laugh there Bill. Thanks. BW> And Bill Gates knows that anybody can pop up one day and take BW> everything he has. He has built his house out of straw. I reckon he knows that when the worlds worst OS has a monopoly based on fraud, deceit, hype and illegal marketing tactics, the wolf will always be right around the corner. BW> This doesn't sound like it's over to me. It's over, until IBM, INTEL and MS can be pushed aside. They are the controlling factors in this mess that has resulted in all the computer illiterates happily running the worlds worst OS. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00033Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:18pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Flexibility Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Jack Stein: AH> I'm just sick of OS's not living up to what OS's should do! A AH> la crash protection... BG> Hah, crash protection? The only way to make _ANY_ OS crash BG> proof is to leave the computer turned off... JS> Hah, he said crash "protection", not crash "proof"! JS> There are plenty of ways to provide crash "protection" to a JS> multi-tasking OS, and WIN does not implement them. Typical MS JS> fool twisting "crash protection" into "crash proof". JS> It is one of the 3 main areas where MS products are abysmal, JS> and it figures you would twist the truth (lie) yet again, to JS> support your OS. BW> Wow really Jack? When did IBM fix OS/2? As I had no other BW> option except to reboot when a trap error popped up on my BW> screen. Did I mention you are an enigma? Yes, I did. I also noted over the years that you have not only a propensity to buying junk hardware, even in win standards, but have a major problem getting anything to work but WIN since it's release. You are a typical Win user, other than you've been at it longer than most of them, and like you said, YOU have choices, just are not together enough to make the most of them. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00034Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:24pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: NEW! Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> ... but it is a shell, and like WIN, lameness and shellness JS> would not stop 100 billion lame WIN users from calling it an JS> OS, at least it never stopped them before:-) BW> Hmm... I seem to recall that OS/2's PM was called a shell. Because it is, duh! BW> And if you look in your Warp manual, they have a different BW> opinion about what an operating system is than Stein's BW> logic thinks. I don't make my decisions on the differences between a "shell" and and OS from the WARP manual. I never read the WARP manual as a matter of fact. I didn't need to, it was that easy to install. You of course, read everything you could find, mis-interpreted most of what you read, applied what little skills you have, and it blew up in your face, which, to those of us who followed your musings, found as no surprise. Particularly since it was quite clear that your real objective was to show us how bad OS/2 was to begin with. You failed at that of course, it was a lame objective Bill, we already were successful in several OS, including your beloved WIN. Pretty damn hard to tell people with experience in multiple OS's that the one they found to be very seaworthy doesn't work. You were a laugh a minute Bill, a joke. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00035Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:38pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Linux / Unix Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Jim Howarth: JH> Linux is and always has been free. Unix is the reason for JH> Linux. There are several distributions for Linux, all of them JH> are free to download from various ftp sites but if you want it JH> on CD it will run you anywhere from $1.49 to $2-3,000. If your JH> just a partime user I suggest you pick up the slackware $1.49 JH> deal from www.linuxmall.com. With shipping it will cost around JH> $11 total. BW> Odd, Red Hat wanted $49.95 for Linux if I recall correctly. You recall incorrectly. Linux is free, including the RedHat CD Linux. BW> Although yes, you can get the source code for free. But you BW> have to compile the sucker. And how are you going to do BW> this? A C compiler perhaps? BW> And what about all of these configuration text files? Oh no, you mean you might have to understand something to install an OS w/o a setup routine? I know that leaves you out, you can't even do that with an install routine and a manual. BW> Somehow I think if one gets Linux free, they are going to BW> be spending a lot of time trying to get it up and running. If they already know what they are doing, they won't. If they have to learn and understand the OS, then they have some work to do. If they come from WIN, as you do, they will likely fail, as you did. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00036Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:45pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Linux / Unix Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Todd Johnson: BW> On (15 Jun 98) Todd Johnson wrote to Simon Stone... TJ> Linux is free.. its a free version of Unix, and in terms of a TJ> standalone computer, at your home, its just as fast as Unix... TJ> and fast it is! BW> Fast if you fiddle with all of those text configuration BW> files. One has reported that this had taken them 6 months BW> to do. If you already know what you are doing, it takes closer to 6 minutes. TJ> Instread of beefing up your processor, Linux will run fine on a TJ> low powered Pentium, with HIGH amounts of RAM, and *QUICK* Disk TJ> I/O. Those two are more important to it.. BW> A lot of software recommends a Pentium or better. It will also run fast on a 386/16 with 8 megs of ram. TJ> Linux is "FREE", but realistically, you shell out about $25-$50 TJ> for a CD with software, and a bit more for extra TJ> documentation... all in all, for personal home use, its CHEAPER TJ> than OS/2 & Win95... BW> You bet. I don't think the free route is such a good idea. I'm not surprised, you are goofy. TJ> However, Linux has other financial perks.. like ALOT of TJ> FreeWare! :) BW> Ah... that is what I like about Microsoft. They have lots of BW> free software. I don't mind. I thought you just said the free route is not such a good idea? TJ> Anyway, If you don't have any use for programs that are DOS and TJ> Windows specific, Linux is probably your best choice. OS/2 is TJ> for those who don't need Windows 95 specific applications, but TJ> still use some DOS or Win3.1/32s software... BW> Funny, I used OS/2 for W31 and DOS programs, but W95 did a BW> far better job for me. You don't, and didn't know what you were doing, and more over, your objectives were not what you pretend here. TJ> In other words: Only Use Win95 if you reply on Win95 apps. TJ> Period. BW> Odd, I use W95 for all of my work. Why is that odd, you have no choice. BW> One OS, one boot, no hassles. It works for me. It also seems BW> to me that is exactly what other W95 users are using their BW> computers for too. You are in the mainstream Bill. Brings to mind that lemming stuff that was true yesterday as it is today. Ask your buddy, Jonathan Swift about it. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00037Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:54pm \/To: BILL WOLFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Flexibility Bill Wolff wrote in a message to Baden Kudrenecky: BW> Most of what I know about Linux is from what I hear. I heard BW> CNET's take on Linux and they are impressed, but it's not BW> yet really to replace W95. I guess they need to mess up the file system a bit, screw up the multi-user communications stuff a great deal, mess up the security until there is none, screw with the memory protection a good bit, and a few other neat things and Linux will be ready to replace Win. BW> And I stopped by Red Hat's web site, and most of my hardware BW> doesn't have drivers for it anyway. So I guess this idea is BW> out for awhile. I had the same problem with OS/2 actually. That should surprise no one. Your choice of hardware has always been a joke, just as your choice of software has been laughable for those that understand vaguely what is going on. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00038Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 10:06pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: Popular=bad? 2/2 Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Lynn Nash: DC> I think ROM Basic isn't a subtitute to Windows or other DC> stuff. You can make a program with Basic but it is not so DC> powerfull as other languages, like C perhaps, because of the DC> missing of loops. There are no loops in basic? That's a surprise... There used to be? LN> Microsoft gives away windows. It has a value which you are forced to LN> pay for. Even if it is $15, which is not the case, DC> The Windows 'program' is always property of Microsoft. DC> You pay just for a licence to use this product. Microsift DC> gives just nothing away. DC> Am I right??? Who cares? The "price" that is paid for running Windows is you get to use the worlds worst OS. The good things you get are everyone uses it, software is available at Kmart, AOL comes up when you boot your computer, or almost. None of these things have anything to do with the OS itself, which is junk. Any OS could do those things, except you would have a better OS. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00039Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 10:17pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: Popular=Bad? 1/ Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Howard Brazee: HB> I think the government is going after Microsoft for one reason: It is HB> big, successful, and successful DESPITE the government. The "Government" is not going after Microsoft. It is bogus. They had MS by the gonades in 1995, and let go in a hurry when they got what they should have been going after, had they been legitamately going after Microsoft. They were not, and are certainly not now. It is a smoke screen easily seen through. HB> Politicians like power, it does not like success it can't take HB> credit for. As a lifetime tobacco hater, I am also disgusted HB> with the government for its anti-tobacco switching. HB> Give the people the responsibility for their own actions, and trust HB> them! DC> Maybe it is off topic but, .... DC> The government don't trust the people at all. See the DC> actions to Key Escrow and PGP, and think about this..... And the feeling is mutual. The people don't like the government either. The solution of course, is similar to MS monopoly on OS. Make everyone a part of, or totally dependant on the government, then, you don't need to worry about what you do. You can be corrupt, and no one has much choice, you can have the worlds worst OS, and no one has much choice. It's the name of the game in a not so free society. The "people" get screwed by government, and by MS. (not to mention IBM and INTEL) Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAV00040Date: 06/21/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 10:26pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: Popular=bad? Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Bill Wolff: DC> Hallo Bill, DC> On (13 Jun 98) Bill Wolff wrote to Lynn Nash... BW> Microsoft has never had any control over your use of DEL, FORMAT, or BW> whatever. As always, the end user always had a choice since day one. DC> Like I said in other mail, they have control to the use of DC> FORMAT, COPY, and other commands (programs) via hodden code. Perhaps you're thinking of undocumented code, that MS used as one of its many methods to to screw it's competitors? BW> Microsoft, was attitude. As Bill Gates had let you do it the way you BW> wanted to. And this difference in attitude was worth 20 million BW> dollars back then and in abundance more today. Only Bill could come up with something this lame. Well, Bill, and 100 billion other MS lemmings, most of who have no reason to know better. No one knows what Bills excuse is. BW> http://members.aol.com/wolffsoft/index.htm DC> I will look at your page as soon as I am reconnected. Good idea, I think I'll take a look myself, just to see what a website from Planet Goofball is about. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171)