--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00080Date: 06/05/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 10:03pm \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 0 times) Subj: Anyone? Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Bobby Queen: BQ> Anyone interested in keeping this echo backboned? KD> I was going to email Dave Raymond about it, but I keep KD> forgetting to do so... KD> (I -am- the comoderator, after all...) OK Keith, whats up here? Not that it matters all that much as we are to damn well behaved in this echo for my tastes as it is, but really, someone we never heard of in many years and zillions of posts suddenly taking over the moderatorship sort of bothers me. I wrote him a message about it, and he doesn't seem interested enough to even respond... whats up anyway? Same damn thing happened in another echo I carry, some stranger suddenly claimed the echo? I guess it's "legal" enough, but why on earth would someone that NEVER participated suddenly want to be bothered? Strange damn people around these days... Anyhow, if your not moderating anymore, and the moderator is out to lunch, lets fight... Did I mention WIN sucks and WIN users are stupid, and WIN is just a bad copy of a MAC, and OS/2 rules and... and..... Unix is made by God hisself? Take off the gloves and say something provocative, before I log off and run to the othernet.... Lets find Bill Wolff and go nuts:-) Oh, I think no one argues for MS products much because there can't be 4 people on earth that run WIN and know much about operating systems, and have something good to say about it. A technical void in our lives:-) Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00081Date: 06/06/98 From: TORSTEN BALLE KOEFOED Time: 08:04pm \/To: MATT BEDYNEK (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 vs Net Attacks? Hi there Matt! Replying to a message of Matt Bedynek to Torsten Balle Koefoed: MB> Why would and attack mainly designed for windows work on MB> so many other os's but not os/2? I know why, but I'm just trying to show an objective attitude. AH>> NesTea TBK>> Pouring this into your machine might kill anything, but I guess TBK>> that's a hardware-related problem. ;-) MB> what's it do, this is one i have not yet seen. I don't know either what it does, but my comment was ment as a joke, since NesTea is also a drink. TBK>> It's possible that OS/2 /could/ get nuked via TCP/IP, but I don't TBK>> believe anyone would waste their time trying to, as it wouldn't TBK>> attract any worthwhile publicity. MB> wrong,.. with all the windows users out there who dislike os/2 and MB> would get a kick out of seeing it go down. Then why haven't we seen any OS/2 virus yet? Maybe a lot of Windows users would like to see it happend, but I don't think any of them would spend their time actually doing it. Yours etc. Torsten Balle Koefoed --- FleetStreet 1.22+ * Origin: Waiting for the punchline... (2:238/202.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00082Date: 06/04/98 From: HOWARD BRAZEE Time: 05:37am \/To: MATHIEU BOUCHARD (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Living Os'S And Almo MB>Incidentally, on a Sun 118-key keyboard, like the one i'm using most of MB>the time, there are a few keys labeled: Cut, Copy, Paste, Help, Front, MB>Open, and they only serve that purpose. It's not like Ctrl-X Ctrl-C MB>Ctrl-V F1 Alt-Tab Alt-something. That makes sense. Of course on the PC we have Pause, Scroll-Lock, & SysReq keys which don't do anything anymore. A help key would be better than F1. An Undo/Redo key would be nice. Word Perfect was written on a system which didn't have F1 keys, and was orted from there. That's why help was F2. Howard Brazee, Lakewood CO - brazee@compuserve.com ___ * MR/2 * Food fight! - John Belushi --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: TeamOS/2-Denver * ISDN, x2, V90 * Denver (303)337-8701 (1:104/720) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00083Date: 06/06/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 07:54am \/To: MATT BEDYNEK (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 vs Net Attacks? Matt Bedynek wrote in a message to Torsten Balle Koefoed: AH> NesTea TBK> Pouring this into your machine might kill anything, but I guess TBK> that's a hardware-related problem. ;-) MB> what's it do, this is one i have not yet seen. i would put MB> my odds on os/2 being more stable against it than windows if MB> it came to testing. He was speaking of the liquid beverage you are supposed to pour down your throat, not in your PC. TBK> There are frequently released fixpacks for OS/2's TCP/IP stack. MB> whats funny is i never had to apply one to keep my system MB> from being screwed with. goto ms's ftp site and see how MB> many fixes you need to keep your system from being crashed. Same here. Never had to install a fixpack and never had a problem with virus, speed, connections, File I/O or anything else related to computing. OS/2 is a well written OS, that works as is on most computers and besides, most 99% of all viri exist only in the duffus behind the keyboard. I knew a MAC guy that claimed he got 7 attacks a week... GUI people are often like that, when they F*&% up, it must be a virus, could not POSSIBLY be their stupidity, or heaven forbid, their LAMO OS screwing up yet again. TBK> It's possible that OS/2 /could/ get nuked via TCP/IP, but I TBK> don't believe anyone would waste their time trying to, as it TBK> wouldn't attract any worthwhile publicity. MB> wrong,.. with all the windows users out there who dislike MB> os/2 and would get a kick out of seeing it go down. Most WIN users today don't know what a file is, let alone how to write a virus. MOST WIN users think AOL IS the internet, and know nothing more than how to access AOL, period. To INTENTIONALLY choose to run WIN, one must be either totally computer illiterate, or a CROOK, making tons of money off the computer illiterates dumb enough to choose to run WIN. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00084Date: 06/06/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:06am \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Linux Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Ben Granville: BG> KD> (As I say, there's no use for Microsoft OSes) BG> Are you guys still mad because MS decided that OS/2 sucked BG> and dropped it? (I'm just glad they took out all the OS/2 KD> They dropped it, but it isn't clear the decided it sucked. KD> Me? Mad? Hardly. I've never been an OS/2 user, though I KD> would if for some demented reason I had to use an x86 KD> machine. Now you have to go and make sense for a change, how could anyone argue with that? Of course, UNIX also runs on an x86 platform, so if you were running a business on that platform, Unix would be a great way to go. OS/2 is after all NOT a business OS, any more than WIN or MACs are, they are designed for the HOME user that is more interested in changing colors every five minutes than getting work done. None of them other than UNIX work well unless you throw a TON of power at them, which of course is excellent for HW manufacturers, like IBM and INTEL. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00085Date: 06/06/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:15am \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 0 times) Subj: NEW! Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Dan Deyette: DD> system? I thought about it and ive decided to learn C++. DD> Anyone have DD> anything they'd like to say? KD> Uh, if you are just learning C++, (assuming you know no KD> other languages) writing an OS will be impossible. Not at all. He could always use DOS, write a stupid SHELL for it, and CALL it an OS!!! I know people that wrote an OS in 4DOS, I have one right here as a matter of fact. The trick is not in writing the OS, it is in convincing enough stupid people into calling your shell an OS. It costs plenty of money to get ZIFF DAVIS to promote your BS to the stupid, month after month, year after year. So, what he needs is unlimited money and a propensity towards criminal behavior more than programing skills. Hell, I'll put up the 4DOS script for him to D/l, he can STEAL that and won't have to know a damn thing about programing. He can use any text editor to "de-compile" the sucker and change a few VAR names to call it hisown... Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00086Date: 06/07/98 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:08am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 1/2 Hello All! The Moderators of this echo are: Moderator : Dave Raymond - 1:3603/210.12 Co-Moderator: Keith Douglas - 1:167/310 *****RULES***** 1) This conference is dedicated to discussing personal computer systems software such as Operating Systems and Graphical User interfaces. Some samples of suitable topics for discussion are, but are not limited to: Operating system marketing => Microsoft vs. IBM Feature comparisons => Cooperative multitasking vs preemptive multitasking Benchmarking of systems => Speed of DOS or Win16 apps on Windows, Win-OS/2, and NT Hardware issues involving => Multiprocessor cache coherency Operating Systems File systems => FAT vs. HPFS for space allocation Specific products => DOS, Windows, OS/2, DESQview, NT, Unix, Mach, AmigaDOS, MacOS, NeXTStep, etc. Operating systems that don't run on personal computers, such as VMS, OS/MVS, Unicos, etc., may be discussed for purposes of comparison, but if you are interested in in-depth discussions of minicomputer, mainframe, and supercomputer operating systems then it would probably be best to find a different conference, even though you won't be ostracized for such discussion in OS-DEBATE. 1a) Off topic messages are NOT permitted. This does NOT include a message initializing the conference, which is automatically generated by some BBS's. Those messages are acceptible, even if done manually, as long as they are NOT excessive, nor annoying. 2) Whether or not ANY message is annoying, or off topic, or excessive, is solely up to the judgement of the Moderators. 3) A THREE STRIKES system is in effect in this echo, for those who do NOT stay on topic, or violate any other rule. An offender will be given two warnings and then will be asked to leave, as follows: 3a) A warning via this echo. 3b) A warning via Netmail and possibly Echomail, that further offenses will lead to temporary, or permanent banishment from this echo. 3c) A netmail telling you that you ARE banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently, if the Moderator(s) feel that the offense calls for it). 4) If an offense by a poster in this echo is serious enough, Rule 3 may be skipped by the Moderator(s) and the offender will be notified by Netmail and possibly Echomail, that he/she is banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently or indefinitely). Also, a rude or offensive Netmail, or Echomail response to a "warning" Netmail, can be used to issue another warning. 5) If the offender disregards the Moderators request to stay out of the echo, the Moderator will have the feed to that Node (or Net, or Region, if necessary) cut, for as long as is deemed necessary. Remember, your actions may effect many others, by your disregard of the Moderators' request. The Moderator may elect to simply have the feed to that Node, Net, or Region cut, without warning, indefinitely, or permanently. 6) If you wish to discuss an issue further with a Moderator, please take it to netmail. You may netmail either Moderator, as one Moderator will netmail the other to notify him of the action(s) taken. Netmail can be routed and therefore will be of no cost to you, unless you wish to send it Crash to one of the Moderators. 6a) If you wish to discuss an off-topic issue with another user, please do so via Netmail. 6b) If you do not have Netmail access on the system that you post from, then check with your SysOp, to see if he will send the message for you, via Netmail. If not, then you will have to seek out a system that will allow you Netmail access. 7) All users of this echo will be polite and courteous to one another, at all times. Foul language is NOT permitted and personal attacks are NOT permitted. Remember, this is about mail, NOT personalities. 8) If you have a problem with another user, contact one of the Moderators via Netmail. We will monitor the situation and take the appropriate actions, if the situation calls for it. You will be notified via netmail of our response to the situation. In other words, let the Moderators do the moderating. You may not SEE the Moderator working, but rest assured that we are. Some of our communications with a user may be via netmail and therefore, invisible to YOU. 8a) If you initiate an attack on another user, then you are automatically wrong, because whether your insults are valid or not, the user will feel the need to respond and thus a flame-war gets started. 9) The Moderators reserve the right to add and post any additional rule(s), as they become necessary, or are deemed to be for the good of the echo, by the Moderators, at any time, without notice, even if to apply it/them to a current situation. 10) ANSI is NOT permitted in this echo. 11) Handles are NOT permitted in this echo, except by the Moderators, who may post under the handle of "Moderator", so that there will be no question by users of the echo who do NOT yet know who the Moderators are. 12) Excessive quoting is NOT permitted in this echo. Only quote the relevant portion of the message and only enough to maintain the thought of the thread. Do NOT quote Signatures, Tear Lines, nor Origin Lines, unless to show an error, as there is no need for them to be quoted in a message, in order to maintain the thought of the thread. Also, please change the subject line of a message, should the actual subject of the discussion change. Many folks scan messages by subject title and they may miss important information that you have posted, that would be beneficial to them, due to the "Subject Line" appearing to be old, or not related to what they are looking to discuss. Continued in next message..... Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00087Date: 06/07/98 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:08am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 2/2 Hello All! The following is the continuation from the previous message, of the rules of this echo..... *****RULES***** 13) If there is a suggestion that you have, that you feel will be of benefit to the echo, please notify one of the Moderators via Netmail and we will consider your suggestion. If your suggestion is deemed to be of benefit to the echo by the Moderators, we will implement the change and post a message to this effect, including the name of the person who made the suggestion, unless you request anonymity. 14) While signature lines are fine, they should not be excessive. 15) Artwork is NOT permitted, unless part of a signature line and then it must be within the guidelines of Rules 10 and 14. 16) Advertising is NOT allowed in this echo. This includes the advertising of other echos. Do NOT advertise, nor solicit sales in this echo. Do NOT request products from users of this echo. Do not respond to advertisements in this echo. 17) Re-posting news stories, magazine articles, etc., is allowed only as far as "fair use" legalities permit. You can quote portions of articles for the purpose of making your point, but quoting whole articles verbatim is not allowed as it is a copyright violation. (Information that is not copyrighted, or which is explicitly allowed to be distributed -- such as press releases -- can be posted in their entirety, but if only part of it makes your point, then only quote that portion). 18) ENGLISH is the Official language of this echo. 19) If a poster makes a claim, it is up to THAT person to back up said claim, if they are "called" on it. It will NOT be up to the responder to prove that you are incorrect, although they may feel free to do so. 19a) Many times in this echo, folks have made claims and have refused to back them up, claiming that it is up to the person who responded, to prove that they are wrong. In the interests of preventing future long-winded, futile and non-sensical arguments over who should prove what, that evolve into dozens of posts that resolve nothing, this practice will no longer be acceptible. 20) Please be sure to say exactly what you mean. We don't wish to see debates over what was meant by a word, as has happened in the past. Your words can and should be taken at face value, unless otherwise indicated in the ORIGINAL post. Long debates over what is meant by a given word, will be considered to be OFF-TOPIC. It is up to the person posting the ORIGINAL message, to be clear about what it is that they're trying to say. This will help to avoid futile, long-winded arguments, that resolve nothing and merely waste bandwith. 21) The Moderator reserves the right to end a thread, when it has become NON-productive and declare a winner, if any. Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00088Date: 06/07/98 From: ABRAM HINDLE Time: 04:05pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Flexibility OS/2 is x86 only right? NT is on the Alpha, the x86 some PPCs. Linux is on... LOTS OF ARCHITECTURES.. That's one way linux will win the war. With stability low cost and pretty good portability. Did anybody hear about Corel jumping ship to linux? Their new netwinder boxes are using a STRONG ARM processor running Linux. They claimed there was no way they could compete with microsoft on their platform anymore because MS owned it! I know that INTEL is hiring people to port linux to that MERCED chip they are bringing out so it'll be a low cost contender on that CPU. I'm just sick of OS's not living up to what OS's should do! A la crash protection... ABeZ --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS Duncan Canada (250) 748-3408 (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00089Date: 06/06/98 From: HOWARD BRAZEE Time: 07:26am \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 0 times) Subj: Popular=Bad? 1/ In a message dated 06-03-98, Jack Stein said to Howard Brazee: JS>Howard Brazee wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS>The fact that the worlds WORST OS's are dominant says a lot JS>more about marketing and user stupidity than about JS>strengths of an OS. Currently, and for as long as MS, IBM JS>and INTEL have been selling their crap to the public, JS>user's have mostly been getting screwed. HB> Of course, I can say the same thing about "bad" anything, JS>No, you can't. BAD baseball teams don't come in first. Unless you define "BAD" as those you don't like. Switching sports, do you remember what the championship Detroit NBA team was called? HB> and lament why "the people" support bad restaurants, bad HB> movies, bad art, etc. JS>People generally don't, unless the hype is strong. Bad JS>restaurants don't last either, unless they are in a tourist JS>area with no repeat customers, and no competition. Again, it depends on your definition of "Bad". There are lots of resturaunts which serve food which all the critics deplore. Either they have hype, a great view, convenience, cheap prices, tourists,... But no matter what, hey offer something that enough people are willing to put up with. Sort of like W95. HB> After all, if "the people" just had the opportunity, they HB> would naturally pick OS/2 as I do, JS>Right. I was being sarcastic. HB> and my favorite restaurants would stay in business, my favorite HB> movies would make more than the trash... JS>Your "favorite" has little to do with it. If the resturant sells food hat JS> makes people sick, or is bad tasting, they will not go JS>there UNLESS there is no choice. MS sells sick OS's, the JS>worst in the business. People use it because there is JS>little to no choice. IBM does nothing, and NEVER did JS>anything to promote OS/2 to the general public, so the big JS>three, IBM, MS and INTEL are in this hype game together, JS>all three are making a killing from this crap and they JS>ain't about to change it. The public keeps losing in this JS>hype jungle. Microsoft doesn't force people to buy its OS. People aren't as stupid as you claim, and you don't need to take care of them. HB> Those poor, misguided people with different taste from me HB> need to be converted for their own good. JS>Agin, TASTE has nothing at all to do with it. There is not one peice of JS>software ever written that could not be written for OS/2 or JS>Unix, or any other OS. Particularly with OS/2, one would JS>be hard pressed to tell what OS they were running, other JS>than thing work correctly, consistantly (mostly), JS>effieciently (compared to WIN) and safely. The OS is the JS>underpinings of what the users "tastes" require, and there JS>is ZERO taste in the PC field that could not be met by OS/2 JS>with ease. OS/2 is a home user, PC OS that is superior to JS>MS products in ALL areas, and it is in the same price JS>range, same market. Taste has nothing whatsoever to do JS>with MS's total domiance of the PC market. I have several OS's on my computer, my needs and wants are varied. While I use 90% of my time on OS/2 (my choice), I occasionally need to boot to nother OS to do what I want to do. And I see advantages and disadvantages of each interface (where TASTE is all important). I get a much faster video responce with my Virge chip with W95 and WNT than I get with Warp 4. I can't use my Monster 3D card under OS/2. have several applications which won't run under Warp 4. Warp 4 has different bugs as does W95 - and since different people do different things, the Warp 4 bugs may be more irritating. It is obvious that OS/2 is not "superior to MS products in ALL areas". It is superior in enough areas that I use it most of the time. But the average ser just wants to run his office's software and play some of games his neighbor plays. So he picks the OS which will do this. Not the one which does this BEST, but the one which will even do it at all!!! JS>If you want part of the reason for this, you have to either JS>have an IQ of slightly more than a rock, or read the JS>charges the DOJ brought against MS in 1994 that explains it JS>rather well. The results of the charges and the reversal . --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: TeamOS/2-Denver * ISDN, x2, V90 * Denver (303)337-8701 (1:104/720)