--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00010Date: 05/29/98 From: MATHIEU BOUCHARD Time: 03:42pm \/To: HOWARD BRAZEE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Living Os'S And Almo HB> It is odd that I naturally now think of CTL-C, CTL-X, & CTL-V to cut and HB> paste, probably because I don't have to move my hands, or maybe because I HB> do HB> more cutting and pasting of TSO filenames at work with a Windows terminal HB> than HB> I do at home. I have a cheat sheet to remember how to do so under Warp. HB> Is HB> CTL-INS then Shift-INS any more intuitive than Windows? After we learn HB> it, HB> they are both intuitive - before then, they are not. Incidentally, on a Sun 118-key keyboard, like the one i'm using most of the time, there are a few keys labeled: Cut, Copy, Paste, Help, Front, Open, and they only serve that purpose. It's not like Ctrl-X Ctrl-C Ctrl-V F1 Alt-Tab Alt-something. And then some people say that Sun/Solaris is counterintuitive. matju --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00011Date: 05/25/98 From: DIRK CAP Time: 11:08pm \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate Bonjour Ben, On (13 May 98) Ben Granville wrote to Matt Bedynek... BG> You're going to lose a lot more money if you only offer OS/2 service. BG> Remember, OS/2 is a business product, not a personal product. I don't understand this. When I see what OS is used in the industry today I see NT, Windows 95, sometimes DOS (DR or MS) and only one time OS/2 version 2.xx. Even in industrial control systems there are more and more 95 produkts. My own opinion is to use Unix for industrial purposes but who will engage and pay a man or woman to give such a system there maintenance needed to run at maximum speed. OS/2 is a very good produkt but I never seen it somewere. I know a computerfirm who uses operating systems with exotic names but with a great power and security. When I look at the power of object oriented control of OS/2 there is in the future important development to build Object controls inside NT as well. My question is why is OS/2 a business produkt and NT not....? I will not ask this for Windows 95 wich I never love. ;) See you Dirk ... Old bakers never die, they just quit making dough! --- PPoint 1.70 * Origin: Cap Dirk from Belgium (2:292/865.19) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00012Date: 05/19/98 From: MATHIEU BOUCHARD Time: 12:23am \/To: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN (Read 0 times) Subj: OPENDOS MB>>>> I'm currently running it, but i dislike it... i am too lazy MB>>>> to explore it anymore, as i am now converted to unix. JWD>>> unix is a little expensive for a home system, isn't it? MB>> Well, once you've snobbed out NetBSD, Slackware, FreeBSD, RedHat, MB>> Debian, SuSE, OpenBSD, Yggdrasil, Coherent, Caldera OL, MB>> Minix/386, SCO-lite, GNU-Hurd, and a few others, JWD> aren't those linux, i thought we were speeking of unix. Well, we are speaking of unix. half of the above are linux systems. BUT, linux systems ARE a kind of Unix systems, just like Solaris is a Unix system, and Minix is, and Coherent is, and Hurd is. It is not clear whether Linux is one system or a family of systems, depends on whether you're looking at the kernel or at the whole. MB>> I run Slackware for now. (I might switch to Debian soon, though) JWD> what does debian that slackware doesn't. Well, it is generally more up-to-date and has more ready-to-install stuff. It's been like 50 to 100 programs that i'm hand-installing; i could reduce that number by half using Debian. I'm tired of getting more up-to-date versions of everything myself. I cannot run Gnome either. matju --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00013Date: 05/29/98 From: MATHIEU BOUCHARD Time: 12:20pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Linux Vs Windows JS>>> system. The problem has little to do with OS/2 WARP 3.0 being the top JS>>> most dangerious OS, FS wise. It has everything to do with JS>>> NON-OS/2 DOS being a dog. MB>> WELL, why will OS/2 do that on a FAT partition then, if the MB>> fs's native OS cannot handle it? JS> WELP, it's NOT OS/2 that does anything to the FAT partition, it is DOS JS> that does stuff to files used by OS/2. well, maybe i'm just stupid or stubborn... neither of us really know what exactly happened on that disk; but both of us have strong faith in either OS/2 or DRDOS. JS>>> And this is why OS/2 should be placed at or near the botton of JS>>> your most dangerous list. MB>> This list was about personal experience, and did i warn that MB>> it was _very_ partial?... JS> system as more dangerous that DOS/WIN file system is simply wrong based JS> on design and millions upon millions of users with long experiences in mea culpa. MB>> well, i would have less occasions to reboot if i had a 2nd MB>> monitor and a 2nd keyboard. JS> 3 different drives with WIN. The problem you speak of is non-existant JS> here with an OS/2 and DOS system sharing FAT. It's not just about protecting files, but also protecting processes... oh well, bbsing is not considered a "mission-critical" (tm) operation... MB>> The same FAT FS, yes, but by no means the same OS. DRDOS MB>> evolved from original CP/M-86 code. JS> Sorry, but that is where DOS came from also. They are the same OS, run JS> the JS> exact same applications. DR DOS and MSDOS are the same OS made by JS> different JS> people, similar to FreeBSD vs "name a Unix OS". Yeah, but since they are independently rewritten, they might have different bugs. MB>> look, i'm just restating my silly things in various ways. MB>> just forget it, OS/2 is probably way better than I think it MB>> is. JS> Design is what seperates the wheat from the chaff... Personal experiences JS> can be too easlily affected by the user and the user's hardware. MB>>> Maybe we are both wrong in our explanation of the source of MB>>> the problem, JS>> Why am I wrong? MB>> because the problem could be in 3rd party software. JS> Software can be written to crash, trash and do about anything to an OS JS> system, fortunatly, it is rarely done, and most of the problems I find JS> today are with self-configuring apps that want to play with your system. We had lots of that kind of apps at that moment, actually :-( Mostly games... but we rarely play games anymore. matju --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00014Date: 05/29/98 From: MATHIEU BOUCHARD Time: 12:29pm \/To: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN (Read 0 times) Subj: OPENDOS DB>> What do you think Linux is? JWD> as far as i was awear it was an operating system desinged by collige JWD> students JWD> in georgia and califonia in a format similar to unix. if it were to JWD> close i'm JWD> sure the unix people would have a law suit going of their own. Lots of companies have made OSes very close to Unix: Sun, Hewlett-Packard, Digital, Santa Cruz Operation, etc. And those are often called Unix systems. And Linux was originally created by Finnish students, although it quickly became very international. matju --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00015Date: 05/29/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 06:41pm \/To: SCOTT DRAKE (Read 0 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE Rules Scott Drake wrote in a message to All: SD> The Moderator(s) of this echo are: SD> Moderator : Scott Drake - 1:2630/212 How did this happen? I don't recall you ever participating in here, although my memory sucks a bit? I do recall seeing a site or two on the internet that seemed rather good, I think I was looking for gifs, html stuff if I recall... was that you? If you are going to be the moderator, I'm sure the regulars would like to know who you are, where you came from, and how you came about being the moderator... Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00016Date: 05/29/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 06:50pm \/To: HOWARD BRAZEE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Living Os'S And Almo Howard Brazee wrote in a message to Baden Kudrenecky: BK> No, what I am saying is that windows is NOT BK>intuitive. Most people only know where many functions BK>are on their Windows system, only because they and BK>their peers have spent years searching for these BK>functions. OS/2 has a much more consistent and BK>intuitive user interface, as to open a new document, BK>you drag off a template, to get a new printer, you drag BK>off a template, or to make new folder, you drag off a BK>template. And with any existing object, a double click BK>will open it, and the proper program. Of course, there BK>are many other ways to skin the cat. And to shut down BK>OS/2, you select 'Shutdown' HB> But Windows is in a position of strength. We do learn how HB> to use Windows, and once we learn it, it is intuitive. But, once you learn WINDOWS, it sucks. Once you learn OS/2, it just keeps getting better. The reason of course is win really does suck, just as everyone that uses a computer for more than playing kid games has been saying since the begining. Win95 is a mess underneath, and it shows itself constantly under heavy use. Thats why there are NO WIN zealots, other than a few dummies that can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Windows main "strength" is hype, user stupidity, and monopoly, all of which should be considered weaknesses by users and strengths ONLY by those that pocket the CASH from those so called "strengths". The fact that the worlds WORST OS's are dominant says a lot more about marketing and user stupidity than about strengths of an OS. Currently, and for as long as MS, IBM and INTEL have been selling their crap to the public, user's have mostly been getting screwed. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00017Date: 05/30/98 From: MATT BEDYNEK Time: 01:16am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: funny Thought yall might like this: http://www.par.univie.ac.at/humor/windows_95.html Later, Matt (mbedynek@hotmail.com) --- timEd/2 1.10+ * Origin: The PostOffice - (409) 531-0067 - WHARTON, TX USA @ (1:106/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00018Date: 05/28/98 From: KENNETH ABRAMS Time: 10:52pm \/To: HOWARD BRAZEE (Read 0 times) Subj: Living Os'S And Almo Hello Howard! 25 May 98 07:21, Howard Brazee wrote to Baden Kudrenecky: HB> It is odd that I naturally now think of CTL-C, CTL-X, & CTL-V to cut HB> and paste, probably because I don't have to move my hands, or maybe If I'm not mistaken, I believe that set of keystrokes was first standard on Macs. HB> how to do so under Warp. Is CTL-INS then Shift-INS any more intuitive HB> than Windows? After we learn it, they are both intuitive - before First of all, the INS key combinations are part of an earlier CUA standard that both Windows and OS/2 adhered to at one point. I will also add that Warp 4 currently does recognize the newer CTL-C,X,V combos (although some apps don't). Kenneth (kabrams@erols.com) --- GoldED/2 2.50+ * Origin: Lexington Park, Maryland (1:109/921.67) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: FAS00019Date: 05/30/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 07:30am \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Ben Granville: DC> My question is why is OS/2 a business produkt and NT DC> not....? I will not ask this for Windows 95 wich I never DC> love. Neither are business products, both are designed for PC's, which are home products, used extensively by business. UNIX is a business product, designed for multiple users and networking. IBM calls OS/2 BUSINESS PRODUCT because they want everyone to use MS software except a few of there preferred customers that want a good OS with few problems. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171)