--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00053Date: 04/26/98 From: MATT BEDYNEK Time: 05:39pm \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Why Nt Server? Sat Apr 25 1998 10:01, Ben Granville wrote to Abram Hindle: BG> But the Linux corporations are going to run isn't going to be free. BG> I don't think I've ever heard of a non-ISP running a freeware BG> Linux. Maybe Caldera or something but not Slackware, etc. What about FreeBSD? Later, Matt (mbedynek@hotmail.com) --- timEd/2 1.10+ * Origin: The PostOffice - (409) 531-0067 - WHARTON, TX USA @ (1:106/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00054Date: 04/26/98 From: ABRAM HINDLE Time: 12:05pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate JS> magazines have said nothing but stupid things about it JS> since day one, and no one other than users promote it. JS> Not easy for new users to use something they can't JS> easily buy, and the makers prefer you don't use it. Exactly if IBM doesn't want you to use OS/2 why should you even start when they are better alternatives out there! Just guess... AH> Lets look at UNIX is Dead. Personally I think UNIX AH> is probably doing a little better now than it previously AH> did! JS> Not likely. Kmart, Gateway and about every other JS> retailer on earth sell only MS products, maybe an JS> occaisional MAC because of dumb parents that want the JS> same computer, whatever a computer is, that their school uses. Has KMART EVER SOLD UNIX? NO! Do you see solaris at KMart? NO! Do you even see WiNT NOPE! AH> Like the commercial unic's are dying off due to their AH> ENORMOUS COSTS. JS> What enormous costs might that be? Monitarily LOTS. DEC UNIX would have cost me $1000 to $2000 extra for an Alpha I was going to purchase (which i didn't). AH> But Solaris and Linux etc are getting really popular. Unix has AH> grown to the lower end of the computer market. JS> Unix and Linux have little chance of ever going anywhere. The dumbing JS> down of the user base do to WINDOWS crap makes it JS> impossible for home and causual users to EVER figure JS> out how computers operate. Todays users don't know JS> jack about computing, and worse, many of the tech's JS> don't know much more. Handing the tech's or the users JS> a copy of Linux would be like handing you're dog a sack JS> of flour and telling him to go make his own dog JS> biscuits. Won't happen, so forget it, everything is JS> DEAD except WIN. Notice that 99% of all win tech JS> solutions for about any problem is to re-boot, when JS> that fails, re-install. JS> Win95 has got to be the MOST re-installed OS ever made. JS> The only person I know that never re-installed WIN95 Have you ever installed RH5? I have it was way quicker and easier than installing Win95. Give a user a blank comp and win95 and see if he can do anything. Also I think you gotta get out of that sheltered OS/2 hole you have for yourself. If you looked out you'd be seeing that UNIX/Linux is getting more and more media attention each day. Soon it shall reach critical mass. Face it OS/2 is the OS for well whoever IBM wants to use it.. Basiclly it means not the public. ABeZ --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS Duncan Canada (250) 748-3408 (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00055Date: 04/26/98 From: ABRAM HINDLE Time: 12:11pm \/To: KENNETH ABRAMS (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate AH> Almost all new comps have Win95 on them. KA> Which says much about the way MS manipulated the market KA> and nothing at all about the value of Win95 (other KA> than, you get what you pay for). Yes which also shows how it got a large user base. AH> RARELY (actually in my case NEVER) have I heard someone AH> switch AH> from 95 to OS/2 or start TO USE OS/2. They have been using KA> There have been at least 3-4 people in the Fido Technical echo in just KA> the last few months working on transitioning from KA> whatever they are currently running (DOS, DV, and/or KA> Windows of some variety) to OS/2. It was recently I really don't think that FidoNet is good example. Come on BBSing is dying or at least moving (to the net w/ telnet BBSs). Fidonet has a strong OS/2 base in the first place (do to BBSing). ABeZ --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS Duncan Canada (250) 748-3408 (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00056Date: 04/26/98 From: ABRAM HINDLE Time: 12:14pm \/To: MATT BEDYNEK (Read 0 times) Subj: Why Nt Server? MB> Wed Apr 22 1998 20:28, Abram Hindle wrote to Howard Brazee: HB> 1. Unix is too expensive. HB> 2. He doesn't trust Linux. AH> Can you clarify this? Did he say anything about Linux? It's the AH> IT'S FREE SO IT'S BAD thing we gotta eradicate. This idea that AH> something is free sucks is just like the general feeling about AH> welfare. People view linux as welfare OS.. ABeZ MB> Not to mention FreeBSD which a lot of large ISPs use! Yah BSD is pretty BIG too. CDROM.com a giant server runs FreeBSD. What does Sunsite.unc.edu run? ABeZ --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS Duncan Canada (250) 748-3408 (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00057Date: 04/26/98 From: FRANK SEXTON Time: 04:08pm \/To: RICH VERAA (Read 0 times) Subj: Why Nt Server? -=> /* Quoting Rich Veraa to Abram Hindle */ <=- RV> Many, if not most, large corporations have legal RV> policies that forbid them from using freeware for RV> liability considerations; eg.: if they use Linux and RV> something goes wrong, there's nobody they can sue. More realistically, I think, is that they cannot *demand* support when they need it. -Frank (fsexton@xpert.net - http://www.concentric.net/~fsexton) --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: Wildcard BBS - Thornton, CO 1-303-252-0491 (1:104/725) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00058Date: 04/26/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:59am \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Starting a new debate Ben Granville wrote in a message to Jack Stein: BG> On Wed 15-Apr-1998 9:54p, Jack Stein said to Matthew Laity: JS> I would like to know why anyone would choose NT over UNIX for a network S JS> though, so I hope thats your subject. BG> Ok, I'll bite. I would choose NT based on the enviornment. BG> If you are talking and intranet with mostly (or all) PC or BG> Mac clients, deffinately NT. If you are running UNIX on an Intra net, why would your clients be mostly (or all) PC or MAC clients? That is stupid and would defeat the purpose of running UNIX to begin with. BG> The administration and setup is much easier, Not a chance on earth. Administration of a network running PC's of any kind is a nightmare. 10,000 PC's with 10,000 hard drives, 10,000 motherboards, 10,000 * # sims, 10,000 lame users screwing with there systems, and on and n. Add very lame security and you have a network with very bad breath. BG> the hardware has _MUCH_ more support and you can use standard BG> applications like MS Office... MS Office is not "standard" on Unix. Besides, if everyone ran Unix, the software for it would be everywhere. Software is not an OS issue, software can/is written for every OS platform on earth. Is there a reason one cannot write a certain type of app because you run UNIX? I would be interesting in hearing what computing task cannot be performed on UNIX that can only be solved by running an MS DOS machine? Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00059Date: 04/26/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:21am \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Living OS's and almost dead ones... Ben Granville wrote in a message to Bas Heijermans: BG> On Thu 16-Apr-1998 4:49a, Bas Heijermans said to Abram BG> Hindle: BH> Abram Hindle made noise to All: BH> You must be joking, OS/2 is more alive than ever before. BH> First of all it's not old, the last version is from november'95 (gee BH> wasn't that the same date as Win'95????, must be old as well than!:-) BG> The latest version of Win95 is from 98. Is there an OS/2 BG> that I'm missing? Really, what version is that? BH> There are still many miljons of OS/2 users on the world. BH> It's allso strange that an old and dead OS is still getting fixpack's:-) BH> IBM is also busy with creating OS/2 Warp 5, why should they do that if BH> it's not used???:-) BG> There are still millions of Atari ST and Commodore 64 users BG> in the world, doesn't mean that their OS isn't dead either. IBM still fully supports OS/2, still developes for OS/2, still sells OS/2, still provides free updates for OS/2 and many millions of people use OS/2. What makes you think OS/2 is dead then? Because you don't use it? BH> It's allso stange that Lotus has just released the SmartSuite BH> for OS/2 Warp version 4, why is StarDivision busy with creating BH> StarOffice 5 for OS/2????? BH> Yeah you are right it must be a dead OS:-) BG> Why does any company make a product? To make money. Of course, a company that is out to make money from a product will not make that product for a dead OS then, correct? BG> There is really no other reason to make a product, regardless of BG> whether you like or dislike a platform. Explain LINUX, explain OPUS, my BBS, or any of the GNU software and tons of other "products" made that are totally free. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00060Date: 04/26/98 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 09:48pm \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Living OS's and almost dead ones... BG> The latest version of Win95 is from 98. Is there an OS/2 that I'm BG> missing? If you're referring to OSR2, OS/2 fixpacks have certainly been released this year. BG> Yes, but the OS/2 used in these places is not usually (I say USUALLY) BG> the same OS/2 you use at home. Like the ATM, that's not running WARP BG> you know. The ATM certainly may be running Warp, although it's more likely to be unning 2.1, simply because that's what was available the last time the ATM had to be rebooted. The OS/2 workstations inside the bank are absolutely running the production version of OS/2, although the CID install feature may have been used to customize the installation before the teller ever got the machine turned on. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00061Date: 04/26/98 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 10:07pm \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate BG> IBM does a great job at making sure that people won't (can't) switch BG> from Win95 to OS/2. When was the last time you saw an OS/2 commercial? I see OS/2 ads on the Internet all the time. OS/2 for the TV-viewing public is insane, not that you're seeing daily Windows 95 advertisements anymore either. BG> How about a boxed copy of Warp in a computer store? It's on the shelf at Comp USA, Computer City and Fry's here in Sacramento. Those are the three largest retailers. BG> How about in a magazine add? IBM advertises OS/2 regularly in PC Week and Infoworld, usually in onjunction with their Java and Workspace on Demand features. Sorry to burst your pathetic little bubble, but you appear deserve it. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F5G00062Date: 04/26/98 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 10:08pm \/To: BEN GRANVILLE (Read 0 times) Subj: OS/2 Dead debate BG> Yes, and OS/2 is much better than Win95, right? And Bill lives in Area BG> 51 and the communists have a plot to rid the world of Unix right? BG> Shouldn't this garbage be posted in controversy echo? If so, then your replies might be more acceptable in a 12 Steps echo. BG> Wow, 4 people, that's absolutely an amazing figure. You should send BG> this over to IBM and maybe they'll start supporting OS/2 again. IBM has been inking multi-million-dollar OS/2 deals this year. $200 million-plus in Brazil (some government agency), something like $50 million with a very large US bank just a couple of days ago, using Workspace on Demand. This is in the current PC Week or Infoworld if you would like a first-hand dose of reality. Try this on for size: OS/2 is not a moron's operating system. OS/2 is not for you. IBM is demonstrating marketing genius when they convince _you_ not to buy OS/2 by hiding it from where you hang out, while at the same time convincing _me_ to buy it by displaying it where I hang out. Ben: They don't want you on the tech support line trying to support a single copy of OS/2. There's no money in you. They want me supporting my dozens of copies, and preferably guys bigger than me supporting their tens of thousands of copies, with a single phone call. Microsoft is the same way. When they preload Windows 95 and NT, the manufacturer is responsible for tech support. Only large companies get tech support on their W95/NT site licenses. MS' retail W95/NT sales, which are very light in comparison, do come with limited tech support, just like OS/2. KA>> Just about every case I've seen, the reason usually involved a need KA>> (or perceived need) to run some Win95 only app, usually because of KA>> work, and doing so via some multi-boot setup like Boot Manager or KA>> equivalent wasn't desired and/or possible. BG> Or, if they had a hardware device that wasn't supported in OS/2 (you BG> know somthing non-essential like a HD, CD, or sound card...) Christ, your delusional. OS/2's legacy CD support is very good, and IDE support is excellent. Sound support is nearly universal (since most sound cards must be SB-compatible to be viable), and SCSI and IDE support is universal as well. Are you sure you're not Dale Ross? Do you have a secert? Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16)