--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2K00004Date: 02/13/98 From: JUSTIN BAUSTERT Time: 11:48pm \/To: FRANK SEXTON (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Linux Vs Windows JB> FAT32.IFS ========= FS> Where to get? Henk Kelder's (author) homepage: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hkelder/ add "os2fat32.zip" without the quotes to the end of that link to download directly.. The current version is beta 0.41. JB --- Telegard/2 v3.09.b15/mL * Origin: Courier Central \ Cashion, OK \ 405.433.2665 (1:147/92) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2K00005Date: 02/14/98 From: JACK STEIN Time: 07:24am \/To: IVAN TODOROSKI (Read 1 times) Subj: wake up, IBM! Ivan Todoroski wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> It IS a personal OS. "Industrial Strength" is hogwash, and a eaningless JS> term, designed as smoke and mirrors to tell people to please use MS OS's IT>> Anyway, they should. It's very popular, meybe even more IT>> than they realize. JS> More than they wanted, thats why they began a strong campaign to kill it JS> when it started selling a million copies a month, just when JS> WIN95 was coming out. IT> ?!???!??!??!?!? WHAT?!? IT> IBM is killing it's own child? I wasn't aware of this. No, their "own child" is Microsoft. They made sure OS/2 did not kill their child, MS, yes. Why they did this is not clear, I presume because it makes good business sense. Why did IBM create MS to begin with? Certainly they did not NEED Bill Gates in the least, he didn't even OWN an OS when the contract was signed. IT> I know that OS/2 became very popular in the year before IT> Win95, but I always wondered why it suddenly lost it's IT> marketing steam... Yes, Big Lou told the world they were not in the desktop market, on the eve of WIN95 release, and just when OS/2 was rolling along strongly, it was reaching the "critical mass" people were chirping about, and Lou had to do something to put the brakes on, and he did. First, the bombshell that the desktop war was over, and some other lame language that the whole world interpreted as OS/2 was dead. Then, he kills Team-OS2 support, then he blows up the OS2 development team. (ok, some minor exaggeration there) but any way, it was clear to me IBM did not WANT OS/2 to sell a million/month. IT> However, IBM's hypocritic actions don't obscure the FACT IT> that OS/2 is probably the BEST 32 bit graphical OS on the IT> market today, inspite of MS' efforts... Yes, thats why I use it. They could leave the graphical part out far as I'm concerned, except I like multiple windows on my screen all running at once. IT> I think that it would be a better choice than Linux IT> for the average (and more than the average) user... IT> Personally, I never did like all the icons :) Me either, but I LOVE the windows. I run almost nothing full screen. I hate full screen more than I hate icons that I normally don't use, and can't see anyhow:-) IT> I am a command-line maniac! ;) Me too. IT> So... Linux is my preference. Except OS/2 is my preference. Notice though, I like Unix (and Linux is Unix), but I dislike WIN, any version. You seem to be in the same spot. It's interesting how many WIN finatics (fools actually) call OS/2 people "zealots", when most all of the "zeolots" only dislike WIN junk, but have no anamyosity towards UNIX or any other GOOD OS. Unix people always disliked DOS immensely, but this is not true when they speak of OS/2. IT>> Does anybody know if IBM plans to continue releasing IT>> OS/2? IT>> Will there be a version 5.0? JS> Yes, but far as I've heard, it will have very little interest to the ome JS> user, whatever that is supposed to mean. Probably means it will be more JS> network and multi-user friendly, which is the only thing that seperates JS> PC from an "insustrial strength" computer system. Even that is JS> wrong as more home users are becoming a 2 (and more) PC family. IT> Well I am *VERY* happy to hear that! But I'm also IT> confused... IT> Why would IBM continue developing something they IT> don't plan so support? They plan to support it, just not support the home user. If you are a bank, I imagine you will get all the support you can afford:-) IT> Maybe IBM has some hiden agenda... ;) I think they do, it's called make as much money as you can, don't get the DOJ looking at you, keep the owners (stockholders) as happy as possible. IT>> It would make me (and many others) _VERY_ sad if they stop IT>> developing this marvellous piece of software... :~( Same, but then, life goes on. When something better comes out, we can always change I guess. The bad part is how is something "better" going to come out, if MS controls the market. MS has not released a good OS since they came into existance, and they surely will not do so when their only serious competitor quit competing (never did really compete) Hey, thats what the OS/2 smoke screen was all about, the "hidden agenda" you mentioned. Giant IBM brings out OS/2, kills off any hopes of DR DOS, deskVIEW or any other OS potential cometitor from the market, then IBM pulls the plug so their devil-child can survive again, un-touched by competition. JS> Both MS and IBM have been a blight on the computing scene far JS> as I can see. IT> I agree! JS> Personally, I think LINUX is the only hope for the computing world, and IT> Sad, isn't it? But don't worry! Linux is getting IT> more and more popular! Yes, and it will be impossible to kill, because no one is making money on it. JS> Most PC users today don't know what a file is, what an editor JS> is or a pipe. Thinking they could figure out what to do with JS> Linux is a real stretch, so that may never happen, unless LINUX JS> comes down to their level, which is a slim possibility. IT> I disagree! IT> I don't think that the average "My Computer" and IT> "Recycle Bin" user will *EVER* grasp and accept the IT> concept od Unix-like operating systems... What shell is presented to the user is not so important. Their is nothing about UNIX that prevents stupid menu's and stuff from making user interfaces the protect the stupid users from the system. The problem with WIN is not just the stupid interface, but the stupid system under the stupid interface. Worse, without the stupid WIN interface, you have DOS. With OS/2, I don't need the stupid interface, it's there when I want it, not their when I don't. Underneath is a nice OS. Linux can be, and is to a point, the same. IT> I think that I would probably manage my work equaly IT> well with 3.0, but I wouldn't go back! I like this IT> version better, and I enjoy working with it! I'll have to give WARP 4 a go, I have a free copy available to me I think, so what the heck. I went to WARP 3 for no reason other than it was free also. I won't go back to 2.1, as I use the TCP/IP stuff, buts thats about all. Good products don't need up-graded every week... At work, our Unix boxes run a 10 year old version of UNIX. Works great. IT> I use DOS programs (like this one I'm writing my IT> echo-mail in) under OS/2, and never had any problems. IT> So... I don't feel threatened or limited in any way! :) Well, you can't go to Kmart and buy the latest and greatest Unix game, you are stuck with buying version 49.00123 of the latest game for Windows. It's a good deal though, just look at the size of that box, and great pictures. IT> If others want to drown in MS s**t, let them! ;) It's rather fun watching them though, it's one of the pleasures from the dark side of my personality. And since I don't "do" windows, I have a built in excuse when they yell for help. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00000Date: 02/02/98 From: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN Time: 01:31pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: novell dos 7 I bet you're impressed. Hey David how the hell are ya! JWD>> some one told me that novell's dos 7 became at one point JWD>> became public domain. what was wrong with it, and how does JWD>> one aquire it? DB> Caldera now owns the rights to Digital Researchs' products. You DB> can download FreeDos from their webpage. Works quite nicely DB> here. As usual, YMMV. Sometimes, I think that should be YMWV -- DB> will not might. freedos? how is it better than ms-dos? will it run regular programs for ms-dos? i'm running a dos based bbs and i'm interested in seeing if there's something better than microsoft's. Joseph --- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ * Origin: I have no idea bbs 1-203-723-9587 naugy ct (1:141/1191) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00001Date: 02/06/98 From: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN Time: 11:53am \/To: MATHIEU BOUCHARD (Read 1 times) Subj: OPENDOS I bet you're impressed. Hey Mathieu how the hell are ya! MB>>> cp/m MB>>> dr dos / gem MB>>> os/2 1.0, 2.0, warp 3 MB>>> ibm dos MB>>> xdos MB>>> pc-mos/386 MB>>> slackware-linux, redhat-linux, debian-linux, openlinux MB>>> freedos MB>>> those are a few of the systems that do exist. JWD>> i've heard and read up on os/2, ms-dos, ibm dos, and JWD>> preasantly reading on linux. i've never heard of the JWD>> others. what are their advatages? MB> cp/m is an old fart of the 76-85 era. ok.... MB> dr dos is based on cp/m but as an msdos 3.3 clone which evolved MB> separatedly from there. MB> gem is a GUI by DR DOS' makers (around 1986-87) which was once MB> more popular than Windows 1.0, and microsoft didn't like it, so MB> they sued, and they killed it, where they had been sued by apple MB> and apple had lost. (incidentally, apple had been sued too, by MB> xerox, and apple had won) MB> xdos is a free dos clone, dated about 1991. MB> pc-mos/386 is a commercial dos clone, multitasking before MB> NovellDOS did, and better than that. Never saw it, though. I'd MB> like to. (I'd also like to see gem, too, and os/2 v1.0, and see MB> again MultiVue, and playing with amigaos, among other things) realy MB> ms dos is a legally stolen version of pc dos which was bought MB> from Seattle Comp., was called seattle dos, which itself was MB> a reverse-engineered port of cp/m. You imagine the crap. MB> novell dos (nwdos) is what happened when gary kildall sold MB> everything to Novell and died of cancer, and novell loosely MB> boosted it and used it as a package deal for their netware crap. MB> caldera dr-opendos is what happened when novell didn't need nwdos MB> anymore. caldera decided to get the two last cents out of a good MB> dos. i just d/l'ed opendos 7.02, from what i'm hearing it beats the snot out of ms-6.22 as well as the 7 that went with 95. have you tried it? MB> there are many many more. read on "FreeBSD", "NetBSD", "Minix", MB> "Minix/386", "Qnx", "Coherent", ... ok MB> matju MB> -+- Terminate 4.00/Pro MB> + Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) Joseph --- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ * Origin: I have no idea bbs 1-203-723-9587 naugy ct (1:141/1191) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00002Date: 02/06/98 From: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN Time: 11:58am \/To: LYNN NASH (Read 1 times) Subj: Novell dos 7 I bet you're impressed. Hey Lynn how the hell are ya! JD>> i have a couple questions. some one told me that novell's dos 7 JD>> became at one point became public domain. what was wrong with JD>> it, and how does one aquire it? LN> When Novells long term CEO retired from the company, he bought LN> Novell DOS and started a new company called Caldera. Caldera's LN> main product is a commercial version of Linux with lots of bells LN> an whistles. I guess since he is a billionare that he has become LN> a philanthropist and also has a known dislike for Gates. I LN> believe that he also sued him. In any case it is now called LN> Caldera OpenDOS and you can get it and some version of the source LN> code at www.caldera.com/dos/ ok, thanks. Joseph --- GoldED 2.42.G0214+ * Origin: I have no idea bbs 1-203-723-9587 naugy ct (1:141/1191) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00003Date: 02/15/98 From: HOWARD BRAZEE Time: 07:54am \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Backups With Multi-Os'S In a message dated 02-10-98, Jack Stein said to Howard Brazee: HB> Which means that if you lose C:, you can't boot to L:. HB> Warp doesn't put anything on C: if you want to boot to H:. HB> I can boot to H: even if my C: is unreadable. JS>Which means you can put NT "way out there" as long as it's JS>on C: and in a partition recognizable by the bios, right? JS>The fact you can put some of the boot files on another JS>partition doesn't mean a whole lot, I used to boot DOS with JS>some of the boot files on a ram disk. With OS/2, I can JS>really put the OS "way out there" even on a different JS>physical drive, and in a logical partition at that. You seemed to be arguing with me by agreeing with everything I said - except bit for this paragraph. By putting a bit of NT on C:, the rest of NT can be anywhere. At the cost of depending upon having a valid, bootable C:. (which can be a big cost) My ideal booting arrangement would be to expand the boot manager to enable it to find the boot sectors from any partition. After that's found, the OS ould bootstrap the rest of the OS. (I would also like to expand it to let it be backed up to a floppy and allow it to work there just fine). Of course, we could simply stop using IDE drives. I'm told SCSI drives don't have this limit, and I don't know about other modern systems. Howard Brazee, Lakewood CO - brazee@compuserve.com ___ * MR/2 * Never say never. - Paul Newman --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: TeamOS/2-Denver * ISDN, x2, v34+ * Denver (303)337-8701 1:104/720) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00004Date: 02/15/98 From: HOWARD BRAZEE Time: 07:57am \/To: JAMES STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Os/2 And 32 Bit Fat In a message dated 02-11-98, James Stein said to Howard Brazee: JS> HB> With the added problem in that NT and OS/2 can't read 32 bit HB> FAT. JS> Howard, this may interest you: JS> **************** JS> Daniel Steiner has released beta version 0.03 of his VFAT IFS for JS> OS/2. VFAT-OS2 is an Installable FileSystem which allows OS/2 to JS> read and write to partitions formatted with Windows 95's VFAT JS> filesystem. OS/2 normally sees these partitions as regular FAT, JS> which means no access to Win95 long filenames. VFAT-OS2 extends JS> OS/2's capabilities in dealing with these partitions. JS> The driver can be downloaded from its website: JS> http://npw.cgnet.de/dsteiner/OS2/vfat/vfat_003.zip JS> More information can be found at JS> http://npw.cgnet.de/dsteiner/OS2/vfat-top.html I saved this and another message off - in case I will ever need to install FAT32. I really hope to avoid that, but you never know with Microsoft. It still seems odd that Microsoft keeps telling us that it wants us all to migrate to NT, but its design of W95 seems designed to keep W95 users from this migration. Howard Brazee, Lakewood CO - brazee@compuserve.com ___ * MR/2 * Men don't get smarter when they get older. - Claudette Colbert --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: TeamOS/2-Denver * ISDN, x2, v34+ * Denver (303)337-8701 1:104/720) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00005Date: 02/15/98 From: HOWARD BRAZEE Time: 09:31am \/To: IVAN TODOROSKI (Read 1 times) Subj: Wake Up, Ibm! In a message dated 02-13-98, Ivan Todoroski said to Jack Stein: IT> Frankly, it's a very effective smoke-screen! I know people who are IT> almost AFRAID to install OS/2!!! :) While I think NT is easier to install than Warp is - both fall short in the SOHO market where an untrained businessman wants a peer to peer LAN. Here's how the installation should look: ======================================== The installation detected a (what does NIC stand for?). Do you intend to connect this computer with other local computers? (make sure the user oesn't confuse modem connectivity with LAN) y Does your LAN have a server, or will you use peer-to-peer (press button for more detail) peer-to-peer Each computer and your peer to peer network should have a name. These names will be used by your users so they should be easily remembered. What is the name of your network? (recommend all lower case or whatever) brazee What is the name of this particular computer? howard I recommend the following IP addresses for this computer. You may screen print this if you wish, or you can look it up later by doing .... Press Enter to accept this default or select OPTIONS for more options. (the average businessman has NO IDEA what to put in here. The help for ither NT or OS/2's install are absolutely no help) How do you wish to connect to other computers on your peer-to-peer network? 1. Automatically connect every time you boot up (without asking for password)? 2. Automatically connect every time you boot up (asking for password) 3. Check every few minutes for a connection - if there is a connection, choose options 2 or 3? 4. Create a button on the workplace which you press to do 2 or 3. etc. I think you know what I mean - people creating peer-to-peer networks don't have full time LAN employees! Oh - the instructions need to be modified - the new HP printers with IP addresses could change needs. Howard Brazee, Lakewood CO - brazee@compuserve.com ___ * MR/2 * "Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself." --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: TeamOS/2-Denver * ISDN, x2, v34+ * Denver (303)337-8701 1:104/720) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00006Date: 02/15/98 From: GLENN THOMPSON Time: 01:50pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: wake up, IBM! -=> On the 06 Feb 98 07:53:16 Jack Stein was saying to Mathieu Bouchard <=- JS> Mathieu Bouchard wrote in a message to Alan Hess: AH> Is there any way we can wake up IBM and get them to start properly AH> promoting and advertising OS/2?? JS> They are not going to, ever. Probably too true Jack ! JS> When you see MS starting to spend huge sums on hardware JS> R&D, contracting with large firms to develop and maintain big dollar JS> systems, then you will see IBM go face to face. I bet it don't JS> happen. But as far as this bit goes you might see some fear at IBM. Compaq wants to be Mr.Big, they've bought Digital who've been in the mainframe game for 40 years or so and Digital have signed a deal with M$ to make NT the scalable mainframe system of the world. Which is aimed right at IBM's wallet, but IBM probably see Java as their suit of armour :)) I did find a posting from some programmer who ha dattended a two day seminar of IBM's which all on OS/2, their were lots of developers their and even a speech by the IBM ceo ......thingybob. Apparently OS/2 has major part of the strategy at IBM. Pity they just can't seem to find a way to tell the rest of us :-)))) Cheers Glenn. ... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.20 [NR] * Origin: Ground Zero BBS - 61 8 8325 1822 SouthNet Mail Host (3:800/409) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: F2M00007Date: 02/17/98 From: MAURICE KINAL Time: 09:29am \/To: JOSEPH W DUMOULIN (Read 1 times) Subj: novell dos 7 02 Feb 98 13:31, Joseph W DuMoulin wrote to David Bowerman: DB>> Caldera now owns the rights to Digital Researchs' products. You DB>> can download FreeDos from their webpage. Works quite nicely DB>> here. As usual, YMMV. Sometimes, I think that should be YMWV -- DB>> will not might. JWD> freedos? how is it better than ms-dos? will it run regular programs JWD> for ms-dos? JWD> i'm running a dos based bbs and i'm interested in seeing if there's JWD> something better than microsoft's. Confusion here Joeseph ... he is actually talking about OpenDOS not FreeDOS. OpenDOS works really good and I have found that some DOS applications run better under it then any version of MS DOS. As to why this is so I can only speculate at this time but it is an observation I have made. --- Msged 4.10 * Origin: Wandering Point - Lackey of ZOLTAN -> Ladysmith, BC (1:351/255.1)