--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGF00005Date: 12/10/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 02:10pm \/To: ABRAM HINDLE (Read 1 times) Subj: Peeve w/ Linux Abram Hindle wrote in a message to Jack Stein: AH> As I asked to people not to you did so and defended OS/2's AH> nice handling of DOS... What you said was don't "flame me" because you know OS/2 "emulates" DOS extremly well. AH> Most of the message consisted of OS/2's "great emulation". And AH> I agree it wouldn't have been as popular if it couldn't do DOS. AH> Heck it does it better than Win95.. OK, lets look at it again: AH> I should've stated more clearly what my basis was. But if you go by AH> the emulation (I know OS/2 does a better job than that so don't AH> flame me) or compatibility you'd likely see numbers that are AH> extremely close to one another. You see I could count DOSEMU AH> and Wabi for Linux or Executor too.. Each OS would be looking AH> almost the same in numbers as the other. Therefore by the new 1 AH> person opinion poll based on what software an OS can AH> technically run I shall say this: WinNT/95 - 9/10 OK, since you don't wish to discuss "emulation" then I reckon you don't want to count any DOS or DOS/WIN3xx apps that WIN95 "emulates". When you go to "Kmart" to buy all this "WIN95 software" you will have to exclude all software that says WIN95 but actually will run in WIN3xx or DOS, because OS/2 also runs that software. When you are finished eliminating all the non-WIN95 software, you will be left with a lot less software than you imply, and a lot that is actually WIN95 is just rehashed WIN3xx apps. JS> By retail, I guess you mean software that can be JS> purchased? I guess that might put a crimp in Unix, as JS> a lot of it is freeware, including Unix itself in JS> several of it's flavors. Newer is silly, as WIN95 is a AH> No by retail I mean software that you walk down to Nerds AH> Comps and Service and buy it righ then and there. Though AH> where I work OS/2 warp is selling for $35 in the 1/2 box. AH> . I see, you want to eliminate things that don't apply to MS junkware, but fit all the other major OS's! Thats like saying who makes the best car, counting cars sold only at a FORD dealer... pretty lame don't you think? AH> Your right though if an OS suits you and can do your stuff AH> use it. I go for these traits: AH> Stability, That would suggest anything BUT a MS product, any version. About everyone knows MS products are DEAD LAST in stability, yet you put MS at the top of your list? AH> how much control I HAVE over my computer, That would put UNIX at the top, OS/2 just under it, and all MS products DEAD LAST, yet you put MS at the top of the list? AH> types of software I can run, Silly, as all popular OS run ALL types of software. Mainly 5 groups or types of software run on computers: Database/spreadsheet, editing/word processing, communications, calculations and drawing. All operationg systems popular today (and yesterday) had/have TONS of apps that do ALL these types of tasks. AH> what can I do with it easily? That depends on your knowledge and skills. Assuming you know what you are doing with each OS, then UNIX would be tops, OS/2 very close second, MS products DEAD LAST, yet you put MS products at the top of your list? AH> One question Jack: Are they updating OS/2? Like will you get AH> newer versions with bug fixes, extra driver support extra? Of course. IBM is the only company I know of that historically supports it's customers. They still update and support software that is years out of date. They are even supporting WIN3.x crap long after MS dumped it's customers in the lake. OS/2 users have few worries of IBM dropping support for at least 10 years, MS supports their products ONLY until the next release (bug fix) is sold to the unsuspecting public. If continued support is an issue for you, then MS products are DEAD LAST, yet you put MS products at the top of your list? It seems to me you have good issues, but your conclusions are inverse to reality, and do not support the issues you raise. I figure you are young and smart, so don't have the knowledge and experience just yet to make rational, wise conclusions, or you work for MS. This is not a personal slam, unless you work for MS, then I guess it is. Young and smart is good, you will eventually see the light like most everyone with brains and experience. Getting the experience is not always easy, and takes a lot of luck, curiosity and time. Brains w/o experience is like money, mostly useless in and of itself. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGF00006Date: 12/10/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 03:03pm \/To: MAURICE KINAL (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? Maurice Kinal wrote in a message to Elliott Goodman: MK> I thought UNIX was started by MIT a couple of decades ago, MK> but I could be wrong about this... UNIX was developed in the 70's at Bell Labs, not MIT. Dennis Ritche and others I believe developed the C programing language as a "tool" to aid them in creating the UNIX OS. It was one of those rare moments in human history when man raised himself to a higher level than generally possible, and created something truly monumental and inspired. If you believe in God, (which I don't) there is a good chance he got tired of people fooling around and shot a beam of light into Bell Labs that said "THIS is how to do what you want, you dimwits" and UNIX was born. BTW, in this Biblical story, guess who the "Anti-Christ" turned out to be? Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGG00000Date: 12/10/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 07:50pm \/To: SCOTT JONES (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? -=> Quoting Lee Aroner to Elliott Goodman <=- EG> BTW, who owns UNIX? AT&T? Why don't they reduce the EG> price to compete with Linux > & Co.? Would that make sense? (Question to All, of course.) LA> AT&T sold UNIX a couple years ago, but I can't remember for the LA> life of me who bought it...could have been HP?? SJ> AT&T spun UNIX off to a division called UNIX Software Labs in '90 or '91. USL > was bought out by Novell in '92. Yes, of course. One of Ray Noorda's adventures. Thanx for that historical tidbit... LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: Of course I tessssted it. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGG00001Date: 12/10/97 From: LYNN NASH Time: 04:07pm \/To: ABRAM HINDLE (Read 1 times) Subj: Idt winchip c6+ cpu LL> CENTAUR LL> TECHNOLOGY REVEALS NEXT GENERATION IDT WINCHIP C6+ LL> MICROPROCESSOR KD> Uh, this is an OS-Debate forum. Unless you can tie KD> this new microprocessor in with OSes, please avoid KD> posting such things in the future. AH>Don't you understand the implications? One-sided OS only support by AH>hardware? Unfair advantage? Other OS's have to cope? AH>I feel laurence's message was very shocking and relevent to this echo... AH>Did you see the messages that stirred from it? Probably more of an example of how targeted marketing can sway minds. There is nothing WIN specific about the C6 except in the mind of an Ad man. The fact that they can get away with it and no one laughs probably has more to do with OS-Debate topic fodder than the chip itself does. IDT physically makes it and Centaur are the designers. Whipping out the December issue of Computer Shopper (oh my back) and turning to page 273 for WinChip's full page add, It shows a baby and "birth of a Windows Microprocessor" banner. Huh?!? how can that technically be, there are no special instructions needed to run windows over other Intel architecture OS'es. How would a CPU know that this is a windows add, subtract, multiply or move and not a Unix or OS/2 or DOS or Netware or even BeOS, add, subtract, multiply or move. Looking at the fine print gives this description. "All 100% applications compatible with Pentium MMX Technology. Microsoft Certified for Windows 95. And XXCAL Platinum Certified for compatibility with other major x86 operating systems, network environments and software applications." My gosh, it looks like the standard verbiage used by all the other CPU makers. It must be my bad eyes because this has been proclaimed a Windows chip and that must mean something special. This is really confusing. Wait ... maybe ... that means that the Pentium MMX was really a Winchip and ... they just hid it from us. Yeah that's the ticket. This is better than Roswell and Area 51. Oliver...uh I mean Mister Stone take a look at this please. :-) --Lynn * SLMR 2.1a * How DO boneless chickens walk? --- DB 1.39/004485 * Origin: The Diamond Bar BBS, San Dimas CA, 909-599-2088 (1:218/1001) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGG00002Date: 12/10/97 From: LYNN NASH Time: 04:07pm \/To: LEE ARONER (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast majority? EG> BTW, who owns UNIX? AT&T? Why don't they reduce the price to LA>compete with Linux > & Co.? Would that make sense? (Question to All, of course.) LA> AT&T sold UNIX a couple years ago, but I can't remember for the LA> life of me who bought it...could have been HP?? Novell bought it for a grip and lost their butts when they sold the remains to SCO. SCO as part of the purchase, got stuck paying royalties to MS for some shady deal, from way back, dealing with AT&T support of XENIX. They sued via the EC to get the royalties lifted last month. --Lynn * SLMR 2.1a * I always cry after sex, I think it's the Mace. --- DB 1.39/004485 * Origin: The Diamond Bar BBS, San Dimas CA, 909-599-2088 (1:218/1001) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGGL1336Date: 12/12/97 From: JIM PURCELL Time: 05:22pm \/To: DAVE RAYMOND (Read 1 times) Subj: REPLY TO EARLIER MESSAGE Dave, you said in an earlier message that the windows product to compare os to was NT. Not having used NT I cannot comment on such a comparison. But I have used bot 95 and os/2. And I have also installed each on my computer several times. I have not seen enough advantage in os/2 to compensate for the extra difficulty in getting drivers and such for my hardware. If an advantage is not noticable to a user then it is not an advantage. The problem might be the users perception but 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' as are advantages of operating systems. _____ |_| |_| --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGH00000Date: 12/10/97 From: JAME CLAY Time: 10:08pm \/To: MAURICE KINAL (Read 1 times) Subj: Unix On Dec 09 11:05 97, Maurice Kinal of 1:351/255.1 wrote: MK> 07 Dec 97 22:23, Elliott Goodman wrote to Quenn Finch: EG>> BTW, who owns UNIX? AT&T? Why don't they reduce the price EG>> to compete with Linux & Co.? Would that make sense? EG>> (Question to All, of course.) MK> I thought UNIX was started by MIT a couple of decades ago, MK> but I could be wrong about this... AT&T, originally. Jame --- Msgedsq 3.10 * Origin: ROCASA POINT [Unpublished] Clinton Twp., MI (1:120/481.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGH00001Date: 12/11/97 From: LAWRENCE LUCIER Time: 02:18pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: PR: WorkSpace On-Demand to Support Intel14:18:1012/11/97 * From: tsipple@us.ibm.com (Timothy Sipples) * Subject: PR: WorkSpace On-Demand to Support Intel "Lean-Client" Computer Reseller News (December 8, page 6), in an article entitled "Intel turns its sights on thin clients -- Positions embedded Pentium architecture as NC alternative," reports on Intel's plans to produce a Pentium-class processor and publish "lean-client" guidelines for Java-based network computers. IBM is one of several vendors to support Intel's sub-$500 Java computing device direction, announcing that WorkSpace On-Demand will be supported on this embedded processor. Here's an excerpt from that article: "It's very clear there is special consideration for running Java code in the spec," said Art Olbert, vice president of business development for the Network Computer Software Division of IBM Corp., Armonk, N.Y. IBM worked with Intel to develop the lean-client guidelines, to be completed in January. IBM's Workspace on Demand software will run on the client, Olbert said. The article appears in the print edition of Computer Reseller News. For more information on Computer Reseller News, please visit http://www.crn.com. --- Sqed/32 1.14/r15155 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS - (250) 748-3408 v32b v42b XA CM (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGI00000Date: 12/12/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 09:40pm \/To: LYNN NASH (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast majority? EG> BTW, who owns UNIX? AT&T? Why don't they reduce the price to LA>compete with Linux > & Co.? Would that make sense? (Question to All, of course.) LA> AT&T sold UNIX a couple years ago, but I can't remember for the LA> life of me who bought it...could have been HP?? LN> Novell bought it for a grip and lost their butts when they sold the > remains to SCO. SCO as part of the purchase, got stuck paying royalties > to MS for some shady deal, from way back, dealing with AT&T support of > XENIX. They sued via the EC to get the royalties lifted last month. Guess who owns a large chunk of SCO stock? LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: I think I've lost my mind. Please watch where you step --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGI00001Date: 12/12/97 From: MAURICE KINAL Time: 08:36pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? Hello Jack. 10 Dec 97 15:03, Jack Stein wrote to Maurice Kinal: MK>> I thought UNIX was started by MIT a couple of decades ago, MK>> but I could be wrong about this... JS> UNIX was developed in the 70's at Bell Labs, not MIT. Dennis Ritche JS> and others I believe developed the C programing language as a "tool" JS> to aid them in creating the UNIX OS. It was one of those rare moments Ah yes. I have a couple of "bibles", er, um, I mean reference books written by him. JS> into Bell Labs that said "THIS is how to do what you want, you JS> dimwits" and UNIX was born. JS> BTW, in this Biblical story, guess who the "Anti-Christ" turned out to JS> be? Hmmmmmmm? I have a guess but I'd rather be enlightened, this being the Christmas season and all. Maurice ... Flatlanders --- "There can be only fun!" --- GoldED 2.50+ * Origin: Wandering Node - Unpublished - (1:351/255.1)