--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00004Date: 12/04/97 From: ELLIOTT GOODMAN Time: 08:53pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? Hello Justin! 03 Dec 97 19:57, Justin Baustert wrote to Rich Veraa: JB> As hard as Gates may try that tactic, he'll have to stop IBM and Sun JB> from writing their own Java implementations for any MS operating JB> system.. Since *both* companies have already committed to that task, JB> Gates gets Java compatibility whether he wants it or not.. That's interesting, Justin, but won't MS do the same thing with that that they did with OS/2, release a new version of WinWhatever that breaks the existing Java implementation? All in the name of including new features, of course! Elliott Internet: elliottg@qnet.com ... A kleptomaniac is a man who just can't help helping himself. --- GED 2.50+==> LoraBBS/2 v2.40pl59+ * Origin: Miles Enterprises * 33.6k * 805-264-0200 * (1:2004/102) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00005Date: 12/04/97 From: ELLIOTT GOODMAN Time: 08:55pm \/To: DAVE RAYMOND (Read 1 times) Subj: IDT WinChip C6+ CPU Hello Dave! 02 Dec 97 08:07, Dave Raymond wrote to Lawrence Lucier: DR> Don't believe the hype. I have already read some of the specs DR> on this chip. It is targeted for those who don't wish to spend DR> a lot of money on a chip and will offer sub-Intel performance. DR> This chip is a single issue, non-superscaler design, like the 486. DR> Like the AMD and the Cyrix, it will suffer in the areas of FPU DR> and MMX performance, thereby making it, as any Quake player can DR> tell you, a lower performance chip. :) Not to mention that if MS changes the specs on their software, whatever the hell it's called (drawing a blank), the chip is useless for all the extra functions and it's still necessary for programmers to write to the specs. That might not happen if the chip isn't widely sold. Chicken and egg problem, again. Elliott Internet: elliottg@qnet.com ... Hardware: Typically boots, leather and chains. --- GED 2.50+==> LoraBBS/2 v2.40pl59+ * Origin: Miles Enterprises * 33.6k * 805-264-0200 * (1:2004/102) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00006Date: 12/04/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 07:59pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Freeware Hi Justin! In Justin Baustert's message to Albert Alcoceba on <03 Dec 97>, Justin Baustert said: JB> Albert, our license agreement is different than everyone else's.. JB> The applicable part is this: JB> IBM grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-assignable JB> right, under the applicable IBM copyrights, to use one copy of the JB> PROGRAM on only one machine at any one time. -- You may only use the JB> PROGRAM if you are a current licensee of either OS/2 Warp Version 3, JB> OS/2 Warp Connect, OS/2 Warp 4 or OS/2 Warp Server.. JB> *************** Hence it's not freeware - IBM probably paid Netscape for the privilege of including Navigator in the OS/2 package. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00007Date: 12/04/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 08:01pm \/To: LEE ROBERTS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Freeware Hi Lee! In Lee Roberts's message to Albert Alcoceba on <02 Dec 97>, Lee Roberts said: LR> Not necessary. It's free for *all* non-commercial usage, not just LR> educational. The OS/2 distribution was different as was explained. However if you upgrade to newer versions or you use the Linux, or Win versions the license states that only students and educations institutions are entitled to free use. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00008Date: 12/05/97 From: JONATHAN ROBERTS Time: 03:39pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Peeve w/ Linux RE: Peeve w/ Linux BY: Jack Stein to Abram Hindle on Thu Dec 04 1997 07:27 am OTE: DCTEdit v0.01 > OS/2's "emulation" of DOS is much better than any other DOS, emulated or Is that true emulation though? I don't know how OS/2 works exactly, but I thought it was built on a similar setup as DOS. Meaning that it would be not really emulation. No? - Jonathan Roberts .aka. Gremlin - The Caverns BBS ... Any club that would accept me as a member, I wouldn't want to join. --- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.25 * Origin: The Caverns BBS - 504.831.2825 (1:396/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00009Date: 12/05/97 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 07:38pm \/To: JONATHAN ROBERTS (Read 1 times) Subj: Peeve w/ Linux JR> but I thought it was built on a similar setup as DOS. Meaning that it JR> would be not really emulation. No? The functions are the same. Only the internal structures have been changed to protect system integrity. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00010Date: 12/05/97 From: JUSTIN BAUSTERT Time: 07:41pm \/To: ELLIOTT GOODMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vast Majority? JB> As hard as Gates may try that tactic, he'll have to stop IBM and Sun JB> from writing their own Java implementations for any MS operating JB> system.. Since *both* companies have already committed to that task, JB> Gates gets Java compatibility whether he wants it or not.. EG> That's interesting, Justin, but won't MS do the same thing with that EG> that they did with OS/2, release a new version of WinWhatever that EG> breaks the existing Javaimplementation? All in the name of including EG> new features, of course! I suppose that is possible, but if you base things on the amount of time it's taking Microsoft to get Win97/98 out the door, there is a pretty nice lull period where developers have time to make it work.. JB --- Telegard/2 v3.08.b11/mL * Origin: Courier Central \ Cashion, OK \ 405.433.2665 (1:147/92) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00011Date: 12/04/97 From: DAVE RAYMOND Time: 09:15pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the Jack, DR>>> Every OS takes tweaking to get it where you want it to be. DR>>> The difference is that OS/2 is much more stable. AA>> But some take more tweaking than others. Many people will AA>> tolerate a few crashes here and there - it will still save them AA>> time and increase their productivity compared to hours spent AA>> tweaking a "stable" o/s. DR>> I don't see how, when they're trying to get something done DR>> and the OS crashes. I may spend a bit more time tweaking DR>> mine in the beginning, but I will save much more time than you, DR>> when I am able to continuously get my work done, while you're DR>> rebooting. JS> is not much different. I just installed OS/2 a few days ago on a JS> Reveal 486/66 with a CD, and sound card, picked the easy install just JS> to see what it did, and all it did was install everything perfectly, JS> not tweaked for my use of course, as I want HPFS, 4DOS and 4OS2 and JS> want it set up for a BBS and so on, but for a normal user, the OS was JS> installed automatically just fine. But there is still a bit of tweaking in the config.sys, such as PRIORITY=NO, etc.. AA>> Yes. Totally agreed. And the only way these non-computer AA>> literate people are going to get anything done on a computer is to AA>> keep using Windows. DR>> Incorrect. Even these people that you are discussing, have DR>> no idea how to run Windows, so how can that be correct? I DR>> could say the same thing about them running OS/2. Of course DR>> if we make them keep running it, they'll start to learn it, DR>> regardless of what OS it is. JS> I disagree. Our site had 10,000 unix users running it for 10 years, JS> and 99% never knew the name of the OS let alone how to use it. All JS> they ever knew was how to log on, and use the software, still totally JS> and completely computer illiterate. That's what I meant. It doesn't matter what you sit them in front of. As long as they can learn to run the apps and occasionally perform a minimal task (such as renaming a file, etc.), it doesn't matter which OS is used. / Dave Raymond - Moderator: O[X%X%X%X]{<>======================================-- \ HS Modems / OS-Debate / BayChat HomePage: http://home1.gte.net/thor39 ... Two things I hate. People that can't count. --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: No Fear * Clearwater, FL * (1:3603/73.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00012Date: 12/04/97 From: DAVE RAYMOND Time: 09:19pm \/To: LEE ARONER (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Li LEE, DS>> MSIE? That would be the MicroSoft Internet Explorer? The DS>> browser with all the security leaks? Now why the hell would DS>> anyone want that woeful piece of MS junkware? AA>> I personally prefer Netscape to MSIE but that's just personal AA>> preference. >> Netscape has had as many security leaks as MSIE - just look at the >> number of times they had to issue an emergency fix for security >> problems with Navigator et al. LA> I count three for Netscape and at least a dozen for MSIE. And maybe all that means, is that Netscape is taking care of it's customers, while MicroSoft simply doesn't care, which has been their attitude for years. / Dave Raymond - Moderator: O[X%X%X%X]{<>======================================-- \ HS Modems / OS-Debate / BayChat HomePage: http://home1.gte.net/thor39 ... Here Fido, fetch. Get the *.PKT, Fido... The *.PKT... Dumb dog. --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: No Fear * Clearwater, FL * (1:3603/73.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EGA00013Date: 12/03/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 07:30pm \/To: JONATHAN ROBERTS (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? JR> RE: Vast Majority? > BY: LEE ARONER to JONATHAN ROBERTS on Sun Nov 30 1997 08:50 pm > Could you explain for us how it is that Java is "kludgey". JR> Slow, kludgey, same difference.. > Oh, and how bout an explaination of what you mean by "...has no > standard"? JR> One company (Sun) has absolute rights over it; therefore, they an > change it any way they want at any time. No standard there for us or other > comps. to follow. MS puts out J++ compilers/interpreters/browsers/etc that is > not compatible with Sun's implementation. Thus, MS is being sued. Until this > all gets worked out, I see no standard. Maybe I'm just missing something... You forgot to explain the part about "Kludgey", which is not even close to the same meaning as "slow", which also is no longer true. The latest release from IBM is said to be a fireball. As for the supposed lack of "standards", why does your description sound *exactly* like Windows? And we can see the impact that ownership by a single company has had there, eh? Microft's "implementation" of Java was intentionally designed to pervert and destroy Java. That they are being sued for that is simple justice and Sun's contractural right. LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: Radioactive halibut will make fission chips --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210)