--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300005Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 08:42pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the20:42:3011/30/97 Hi Justin! In Justin Baustert's message to Albert Alcoceba on <28 Nov 97>, Justin Baustert said: JB> Different coders, different mistakes.. Personally, I hope that the JB> only thing we get from Netscape is the browser and the html editor.. JB> We already have the greatest news readers and email clients of any JB> platform.. Well when Communicator comes out for OS/2 you'll see that Netscape now gives you the option of what parts to install. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300006Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 08:43pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the20:43:3111/30/97 Hi Justin! In Justin Baustert's message to Albert Alcoceba on <28 Nov 97>, Justin Baustert said: AA>> I know there is. But you have to go hunting for it. JB> And? And I have better things to do with my time than to do that. And then still end up with white elephants. JB> That is not the case.. Each user has not been given the chance to JB> make any determination as to what is best for them.. Due to the JB> monopoly Microsoft holds on the preload market, the majority of folks JB> buying new systems don't know anything but Microsoft.. It's JB> unfortunate, but the majority of those folks are also what I'd term as JB> computer illiterate.. And you don't consider that WIN95 is the best OS for those people? Can you really see those "computer illiterate" folk running Linux? Or even OS/2? I don't see it as a problem. Computer literate folk will decide whether or not WIN95 is best for them. If it's not and they end up with a proloaded version, they will simply delete the partition and start again. The rest of us whom you term as "computer illiterate" can take our preloaded OS and use it and end up being happier than if OS/2 or Linux came preloaded. JB> It should only take one word: Java JB> With Java, the OS is no longer the deciding factor (unless of course JB> you are looking for performance, which OS/2 currently holds the JB> highest marks).. Many software companies will jump on the bandwagon JB> just to spite Microsoft, and I'm loving every second of it.. I don't see adding a layer between the OS and the software, as is the case with JAVA as adding anything performance wise. But if it allows any given software to run on more than one OS then it can only be a good thing. JB> IIRC, they've already done something similar to that with the Sega JB> Genesis system.. It's definitely do-able.. Computers aren't the only JB> gizmos with internet technology.. Of course not... I'm sure it will happen in the future - especially with the advent of Net TV's etc. Just at the present time it's not an option. JB> I don't need to look for a job very often.. As far as my comments go, JB> if the prospective employer doesn't already understand the JB> short-comings of Win95, he's already behind the game.. If it were a JB> *real* guru doing the hiring, they would understand my thoughts JB> exactly.. But you don't get *real* gurus doing the hiring when it comes to doing the more menial office jobs etc. Most jobs are in small businesses that will have one or two computers at most if you are lucky. When things go seriously wrong they'll pay for a consultant to fix it. Remember - not everyone is out to become a system administrator. There are still unskilled workers like me around. JB> So get a different video card.. I've purchased my hardware around my JB> OS, and not bothered to mess with no-name or no-support hardware.. So are you going to pay for my new hardware? Unlike you I'm not rolling in money. AA>> I have a 4 CD ROM stacker. There are no drivers available for AA>> OS/2 (stated by manufacturer) and Linux doesnt' support it. The AA>> standards are not made availableby manufacturers so that even if AA>> I could program my own Linux Kernel support for these devices I AA>> wouldn't be JB> Are you speaking of the ATAPI 4-disc changer distributed by NEC? If JB> so, it most certainly is supported under OS/2.. If that isn't the JB> drive, give me JB> some specs.. That is the unit in question. At the time when I bought it there was no OS/2 support for it, and there is still no Linux support for it. I see that things have changed at least on the OS/2 front - yet you still had to wait for it. JB> I used to have 2 of them myself, but decided to junk JB> them for a 6-disc Pioneer DRM-624x SCSI changer. On top of that, I'm JB> running a Plextor 12/20Plex, and a Panasonic 2x/4x CDR distributed by JB> Creative Labs.. Hardware support is not a problem here.. Some of us cannot afford to be so choosy with hardware and have to buy what ever is cheap at the computer market. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300007Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 08:55pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to L Hi Justin! In Justin Baustert's message to Albert Alcoceba on <28 Nov 97>, Justin Baustert said: AA>> ie., play it without sound. Hardly a solution. The OS/2 version AA>> of Doom never made it past a buggy beta. JB> Have you ever run the software, or is this just something you "heard"? I've run it. The above comments are first hand. I ran OS/2 and Win95 on a dual boot system for about six months - I found OS/2 less and less usefull to me so I deleted it and sold OS/2. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300008Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 08:57pm \/To: DARRELL SALTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the20:57:0411/30/97 Hi Darrell! In Darrell Salter's message to Albert Alcoceba on <28 Nov 97>, Darrell Salter said: DS> Strange, I've worked for many companies (including my own) and have DS> seen many UNIX variants running in business. I might add these are DS> businesses where performance, durability, stability, and "mission DS> critical" operation is paramount. These businesses make up a small percentage of all businesses using omputers. Most jobs are in small businesses with one or two computers at most. Unskilled people like me are moer likely to find jobs there, not in your giant "mission control" operations. DS> They laugh at Windows. Word is DS> getting out about MS, and even the end user is becoming aware of just DS> how bad Windows is. I sell and support computer equipment, so I hear DS> the complaints first-hand, both from business and end users. You'll find you get complaints no matter what OS and software is running. It is true however, that people running alternative operating systems tend to be more computer gurus and can solve their own problems, while those running Windows will be less computer literate or just have real work to get done rather than wasting time going to college etc to become computer gurus. AA>> One of the largest ISP's in Australia (Telstra Big Pond) runs NT AA>> exclusively. DS> One. Big deal. They are also one of the major upstream providers to other ISP's. DS> You keep talking about time. What you want is a fast food joint, like DS> McDonald's. That's fine for a quick burger, but when I want a good DS> meal I go to a good restaurant. When I want a good op sys I don't DS> look to MS. Yes - I don't have time for computers apart from using them as a tool to get the job done and then they can be turned off. I don't have the time to sit around learning all the ins and outs of OS's. I leave that to the eggheads. DS> Right, which is why McDonald's is successful. Cheap food, fast and DS> easy. Far from the best. A steady diet of that stuff will kill you. DS> Some of us want/expect more, no matter how many others eat at fast DS> food joints. And some of us don't care for more. As such both McDonalds and MS have a place in the market. DS> This is an OS-Debate echo y'know. Does McDonald's make a better meal DS> than The Keg? Does IBM make a better op sys than MS? Does it really DS> matter how many, or how fast? Which is better? I have no idea what The Keg is. McDonalds makes a fine fast meal. I don't really care if IBM make a technically better op sys than MS when applications, hardware and other users are harder to find. If people in here can only discuss the technical perfection one OS has over another, and not discuss some real world details as to what OS is more practical then those people are pretty sad indeed. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300009Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 09:07pm \/To: DARRELL SALTER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the21:07:0111/30/97 Hi Darrell! In Darrell Salter's message to Albert Alcoceba on <28 Nov 97>, Darrell Salter said: AA>> Obviously you don't go out looking for a job very often. I don't AA>> think a prospective employer would be terribly impressed at that AA>> comment at a job interview. DS> Maybe he doesn't want to work at McDonald's. I know I don't. Not everyone gets a choice. Many of us take the job they offer us or starve. I count myself lucky to have any job - even if it is a lavatory cleaner. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300010Date: 11/30/97 From: ALBERT ALCOCEBA Time: 09:09pm \/To: GREG COBB (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the21:09:1111/30/97 Hi Greg! In Greg Cobb's message to Darrell Salter on <28 Nov 97>, Greg Cobb said: AA>>>> Apart from Internet Service Providers and some very old AA>>>> mainframe installations, Linux (or any flavour of Unix) has AA>>>> no following in the commercial world. It's all WinNT. JS>>> Where did you get that tidbit of information? GC> He was dreaming. :) Are you on the internet? Go to http://www.bigpond.com.au and try to get some technical details. Regards, Albert --- FMailX 1.22+ * Origin: Stormblade BBS +61-2-9545-4371 (3:712/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300011Date: 12/01/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 09:08am \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 1 times) Subj: Win95 Jack, JS>can forget about the OS, and know that their software will JS>run on all major platforms. This will mostly eliminate JS>the software end of the OS debate, which isn't an OS issue JS>in the first place. Why use the worlds worst OS's when you JS>can use the wprlds best at the same price (OS/2), or free, JS>(as in LINUX)? I rather use Redhat Linux than OS/2. Reasons is because the interface look better. I can easily change it to look like Win95, Mac or OS/2. They have native Quake and soon to be Quake II. I can run MAC software by using a program called Executor and Wine to run Win95/NT software on Linux I don't have to wait for the native Nescape for Lunix/Unix to come out(For OS/2 Netscape, they take forever for it to be release). Oh they will even have native Internet Explorer 4.0 for Linux real soon. And many many more reasons....................................... Yes you can buy Redhat Linux 5.0 either at a computer store or download it for free on the Internet. I'll probably buy it since they include extra goodies on the CD-ROM. ___ * UniQWK #2003* Boy, am I glad it's only 1971... --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300012Date: 12/01/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 09:23am \/To: ABRAM HINDLE (Read 1 times) Subj: Peeve w/ Linux Abram, AH>My main peeve about Linux is the lack of cool games and AH>retail software. Retail Software is where Win95 really AH>really shines. You gotta admit Win95 has so much ammo they They have a commercial program called Executor which will allow you to run Mac software on Linux. There a program called Wine which is still in alpha stage. It will allow you to run Win95/NT softwares. What I have been told is that once they have finish with the program. It will run all of the Win95/NT softwares. They release new upgrade for Wine every two or three times a month. You can check their homepage or check out the newsgroup for wine. They have many game on the Internt for Linux. Just check out http://www.redhat.com and look at the links for games. You can also check the Linux game webring. AH>Linux - 4 <--- Needs MORE, no real retail! They do sell Redhat Linux and other brand of Linux at the computer. ___ * UniQWK #2003* I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300013Date: 11/30/97 From: KENNETH ABRAMS Time: 02:55am \/To: ALBERT ALCOCEBA (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to L AA> If you are the only person using a particular spreadsheet or word AA> processor you're not going to be able to share your work around very AA> easily. Depends. I'm pretty much the only person I know in this area that uses the particular word processor I have (Describe), yet I can take files back and forth between work and home without a problem. And I've made use of numerous files off the internet in a variety of formats. And, of course, not every use of a spreadsheet or word processor requires sharing with anyone else. I've got several megs of documents on this machine that could be in their own, unique, exclusive to me, format, and it wouldn't matter, since they aren't going anywhere else. AA> Hmmm, strange... I just walked into my local computer sofware AA> supermarket and scanned the shelves... hmmm, lots of Win95 stuff... Gee, big surprise. I'll bet your local music store has lots of top40 material on the shelves, too. And the local newstand probably has lots of tabloids. Does this mean that there is no music other than top40 and that tabloids are the epitome of literary art? AA> where's the OS/2 stuff... Right where it's always been. But either Jack's point went right over your head, or you simply chose to ignore it. Jack said: JS> Lets face it, more software is available today that runs on OS/2 than JS> on WIN and NT combined. You got your facts wrong. Please pay particular attention to the phrase "runs on OS/2". To spell it out, if you're having trouble understanding, OS/2 will run any OS/2 software (old or new), virtually all DOS software (exceptions being mostly games), and virtually all Win3.x software. Win95 cannot run *any* OS/2 software, runs most DOS software, most Win3.x software, and Win95 software. What Jack is saying is that the total number of software titles that can be run on OS/2 (regardless of native OS) is greater than the total number of titles that will run on Win95. This has absolutely nothing to do with the titles you'll find on the shelf down at your local software store. AA> From a technical standpoint it proves nothing. Most computer users AA> do not need the "improved" features of OS/2 and UNIX. They do, Yeah, who needs stability and reliability? kabrams@erols.com * RM 1.3 03106 * --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.1b * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 301-863-5089 (1:2612/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG300014Date: 11/30/97 From: KENNETH ABRAMS Time: 03:32am \/To: ALBERT ALCOCEBA (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to L AA> of how technically good it might be, there is no one o/s that is the AA> best for everyone. Absolutely correct! Obviously, if there is no one OS that is the best for everyone, then everyone should have a choice. However, your buddy Microsoft does everything in their power to deny people that choice. It wouldn't be half as bad, if their products were any good, but they're not. AA> I cannot see any of the people I work with coping with any other AA> O/S... they have enough trouble with Windows! (The questions I kept You know, we just went through a little of this when we added a couple of Win95 systems at work. One of them replaced the system used by our primary logistics support person, who is good at his job and in using the computer tools necessary to do that job, but he's *not* computer literate. There was some concern that he'd have trouble using Win95 instead of Win3.11 because of the different interface. However, as was pointed out, the users spend most of their time *in the applications*, not using the OS directly. In that regard, it doesn't matter if you're using Win3.x, Win95, OS/2, or a Mac, you typically run an application by clicking on an icon-as long as the app interface is the same or similar, you'll notice little difference. In other words, for the average user it doesn't matter what OS is being used, as long as they can find how to start their apps and still use apps they're familiar with. Your average user is usually "coping" with an application, not the OS. AA> Are you saying that for these people any other O/S but windows would AA> be better suited? Yes. The ability to avoid crashes or gracefully recover from them can be a good thing. OS/2, for example, will provide that to a user, even if all the user ever uses is Win3.x apps. At least then, if/when the app crashes, it's not as likely to take the entire system down with it. I myself run *far* more Win apps now than I ever did prior to OS/2. I have a copy of Win3.1, but it was *never* my primary environment at home. In fact, I removed it several times, since it was just taking up space and not getting used. Now, running OS/2, I'm actually willing to run the occasional Win app, since I can do so with a far greater degree of reliability. kabrams@erols.com * RM 1.3 03106 * --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.1b * Origin: BBS Networks @ www.bbsnets.com 301-863-5089 (1:2612/10)