--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EFZ00009Date: 11/29/97 From: GREG COBB Time: 11:37pm \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 1 times) Subj: Vast Majority? Hi Quenn! Saturday November 29 1997, Quenn Finch babbled to Elliott Goodman: -> This guy don't even know what he is talking about. I guess this is -> one of his wishfull thinking again. Think before you speak. :) * Origin: Picture This... Southaven, Ms (601)280-2805 - (1:123/434) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EFZ00010Date: 11/30/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:05am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 1/2 Hello All! The Moderators of this echo are: Moderator : Dave Raymond - 1:3603/210.12 Co-Moderator: Keith Douglas - 1:167/310 *****RULES***** 1) This conference is dedicated to discussing personal computer systems software such as Operating Systems and Graphical User interfaces. Some samples of suitable topics for discussion are, but are not limited to: Operating system marketing => Microsoft vs. IBM Feature comparisons => Cooperative multitasking vs preemptive multitasking Benchmarking of systems => Speed of DOS or Win16 apps on Windows, Win-OS/2, and NT Hardware issues involving => Multiprocessor cache coherency Operating Systems File systems => FAT vs. HPFS for space allocation Specific products => DOS, Windows, OS/2, DESQview, NT, Unix, Mach, AmigaDOS, MacOS, NeXTStep, etc. Operating systems that don't run on personal computers, such as VMS, OS/MVS, Unicos, etc., may be discussed for purposes of comparison, but if you are interested in in-depth discussions of minicomputer, mainframe, and supercomputer operating systems then it would probably be best to find a different conference, even though you won't be ostracized for such discussion in OS-DEBATE. 1a) Off topic messages are NOT permitted. This does NOT include a message initializing the conference, which is automatically generated by some BBS's. Those messages are acceptible, even if done manually, as long as they are NOT excessive, nor annoying. 2) Whether or not ANY message is annoying, or off topic, or excessive, is solely up to the judgement of the Moderators. 3) A THREE STRIKES system is in effect in this echo, for those who do NOT stay on topic, or violate any other rule. 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Remember, your actions may effect many others, by your disregard of the Moderators' request. The Moderator may elect to simply have the feed to that Node, Net, or Region cut, without warning, indefinitely, or permanently. 6) If you wish to discuss an issue further with a Moderator, please take it to netmail. You may netmail either Moderator, as one Moderator will netmail the other to notify him of the action(s) taken. Netmail can be routed and therefore will be of no cost to you, unless you wish to send it Crash to one of the Moderators. 6a) If you wish to discuss an off-topic issue with another user, please do so via Netmail. 6b) If you do not have Netmail access on the system that you post from, then check with your SysOp, to see if he will send the message for you, via Netmail. If not, then you will have to seek out a system that will allow you Netmail access. 7) All users of this echo will be polite and courteous to one another, at all times. 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Some of our communications with a user may be via netmail and therefore, invisible to YOU. 8a) If you initiate an attack on another user, then you are automatically wrong, because whether your insults are valid or not, the user will feel the need to respond and thus a flame-war gets started. 9) The Moderators reserve the right to add and post any additional rule(s), as they become necessary, or are deemed to be for the good of the echo, by the Moderators, at any time, without notice, even if to apply it/them to a current situation. 10) ANSI is NOT permitted in this echo. 11) Handles are NOT permitted in this echo, except by the Moderators, who may post under the handle of "Moderator", so that there will be no question by users of the echo who do NOT yet know who the Moderators are. 12) Excessive quoting is NOT permitted in this echo. Only quote the relevant portion of the message and only enough to maintain the thought of the thread. Do NOT quote Signatures, Tear Lines, nor Origin Lines, unless to show an error, as there is no need for them to be quoted in a message, in order to maintain the thought of the thread. Also, please change the subject line of a message, should the actual subject of the discussion change. Many folks scan messages by subject title and they may miss important information that you have posted, that would be beneficial to them, due to the "Subject Line" appearing to be old, or not related to what they are looking to discuss. Continued in next message..... Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EFZ00011Date: 11/30/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:05am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 2/2 Hello All! The following is the continuation from the previous message, of the rules of this echo..... *****RULES***** 13) If there is a suggestion that you have, that you feel will be of benefit to the echo, please notify one of the Moderators via Netmail and we will consider your suggestion. If your suggestion is deemed to be of benefit to the echo by the Moderators, we will implement the change and post a message to this effect, including the name of the person who made the suggestion, unless you request anonymity. 14) While signature lines are fine, they should not be excessive. 15) Artwork is NOT permitted, unless part of a signature line and then it must be within the guidelines of Rules 10 and 14. 16) Advertising is NOT allowed in this echo. This includes the advertising of other echos. Do NOT advertise, nor solicit sales in this echo. Do NOT request products from users of this echo. Do not respond to advertisements in this echo. 17) Re-posting news stories, magazine articles, etc., is allowed only as far as "fair use" legalities permit. You can quote portions of articles for the purpose of making your point, but quoting whole articles verbatim is not allowed as it is a copyright violation. (Information that is not copyrighted, or which is explicitly allowed to be distributed -- such as press releases -- can be posted in their entirety, but if only part of it makes your point, then only quote that portion). 18) ENGLISH is the Official language of this echo. 19) If a poster makes a claim, it is up to THAT person to back up said claim, if they are "called" on it. It will NOT be up to the responder to prove that you are incorrect, although they may feel free to do so. 19a) Many times in this echo, folks have made claims and have refused to back them up, claiming that it is up to the person who responded, to prove that they are wrong. In the interests of preventing future long-winded, futile and non-sensical arguments over who should prove what, that evolve into dozens of posts that resolve nothing, this practice will no longer be acceptible. 20) Please be sure to say exactly what you mean. We don't wish to see debates over what was meant by a word, as has happened in the past. Your words can and should be taken at face value, unless otherwise indicated in the ORIGINAL post. Long debates over what is meant by a given word, will be considered to be OFF-TOPIC. It is up to the person posting the ORIGINAL message, to be clear about what it is that they're trying to say. This will help to avoid futile, long-winded arguments, that resolve nothing and merely waste bandwith. 21) The Moderator reserves the right to end a thread, when it has become NON-productive and declare a winner, if any. Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100000Date: 11/29/97 From: LYNN NASH Time: 06:03pm \/To: ALBERT ALCOCEBA (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: to linux or not to li AA>> Hence unless you move into some AA>> more traditional ISP's Linux skills are hardly sought after. AA>> Interesting to see how the BIG ISP's in Australia are moving AA>> to NT and away from Unix. DR> And even more interesting to see how many who do, end up moving DR> back to UNIX, or to OS/2. AA>I'm yet to hear of *one* ISP that runs in OS/2. Out of curiousity, how would you tell? The server surveys normally only break down into NT-IIS, Mac, Netscape, Apache and a few others probably mini's and mainframes. Since about 50 percent of all servers are running Apache as of Nov 97, (IIS has 22 percent) you would not be able to pick out OS/2 easily from that crowd. It does not display a recognizable banner like NT (hey this is Apache but it is really running on OS/2). Apache has such a strong following because it is basically free and is easily modified for special work. Since the most recent release of Apache for OS/2 was at the end of August, someone must be making some serious use of it or it would not be in the groups source code tree. I mean who wants to keep up with the ports if no one is using it. IBM has been releasing a steady stream of reports on Warp Server sales in the financial sector which seem to be aimed at on-line banking and on-line shopping. Those commerce servers probably are not easy to spot either. --Lynn * SLMR 2.1a * "After all you've seen, why can't you believe?" - Mulder --- DB 1.39/004485 * Origin: The Diamond Bar BBS, San Dimas CA, 909-599-2088 (1:218/1001) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100001Date: 11/30/97 From: MAURICE KINAL Time: 08:50am \/To: LEE LAWSON (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the LL> Like I told an associate after viewing the rollout for LL> Windows 3.0, it's pretty and it looks simple. The LL> secretaries will love it! There's the rub. It won LL> market acceptance based not on tchnical merit but based LL> on the fact that it "looks pretty". And the fact that most PC users have never seen anything other than Windows thus making comparisons impossible or at best difficult. --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: ZOLTAN (250) 245-0099 (1:351/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100002Date: 11/30/97 From: JONATHAN ROBERTS Time: 03:00pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vast Majority? RE: Re: Vast Majority? BY: Justin Baustert to Quenn Finch on Sun Nov 30 1997 11:16 am > Excuse me? Where have you been the past year? Are you not aware the Java i > a multi-platform language that is right on the edge of taking off? Are ou > not aware that *giants* like IBM, Novell, Sun, and Netscape have all > partnered to give Java momentum? Sounds like you are in denial.. Have you forgotten that Java is slow, kludgey, and has no standard yet? Jonathan --- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.25 * Origin: The Caverns BBS - 504.831.2825 (1:396/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100003Date: 11/28/97 From: DAVE RAYMOND Time: 08:39am \/To: GARY SPRINZL (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the Gary, LR>> Besides, exactly how do you prove that one interface is "better" LR>> than the other? That's like "proving" that black is better than LR>> white -- without context or conditions it's totally meaningless. LR>> What's next, are you going "prove" that Coke is better than Pepsi? GS> But Coke is better than Pepsi. It's not as sickly-sweet as Pepsi is, GS> so there. :) As for proof, Coke has a better market share, despite GS> less advertising than Pepsi, so the proof is in the marketplace. :) That would imply that a Hyundai Scoupe is a better performance car than a 911 Carrera 4. After all, it had a bigger market share. :) / Dave Raymond - Moderator: O[X%X%X%X]{<>======================================-- \ HS Modems / OS-Debate / BayChat HomePage: http://home1.gte.net/thor39 ... OS/2 - Half its OS is tied behind its back... just to make it fair. --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: No Fear * St. Pete, FL * (1:3603/73.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100004Date: 11/30/97 From: JOHN GREER Time: 12:21am \/To: LEE ARONER (Read 1 times) Subj: MicroSoft Prices: You dec [From: LEE ARONER] [To: JOHN GREER] [Subject: MicroSoft Prices: You dec] la> Notice that these prices are almost twice what they were a year la> ago...Can you say: Monopoly? With ease, let's hope Janet Reno can say it too. --- Terminate 5.00/Pro [Boycott Microsoft!] * Origin: - [neuromancer's domain] - @ (1:3407/4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100005Date: 11/30/97 From: JUSTIN BAUSTERT Time: 11:16am \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vast Majority? EG>JB> So people should be made to run Win95/NT? We are fast coming to a EG>JB> point where the vast majority of software will no longer be made for EG>JB> the Microsoft operating systems.. EG> Eh? Could you go into a bit of detail on the above, please? Thanks! QF> This guy don't even know what he is talking about. I guess this is QF> one of his wishfull thinking again. Excuse me? Where have you been the past year? Are you not aware the Java is a multi-platform language that is right on the edge of taking off? Are you not aware that *giants* like IBM, Novell, Sun, and Netscape have all partnered to give Java momentum? Sounds like you are in denial.. JB --- Telegard/2 v3.08.b11/mL * Origin: Courier Central \ Cashion, OK \ 405.433.2665 (1:147/92) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EG100006Date: 11/30/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 07:47pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vast Majority? Justin, JB>.JB> So people should be made to run Win95/NT? We are fast coming to a JB>.JB> point where the vast majority of software will no longer be made for JB>.JB> the Microsoft operating systems.. JB> JB>EG> Eh? Could you go into a bit of detail on the above, please? Thanks! JB> JB>QF> This guy don't even know what he is talking about. I guess this is JB>QF> one of his wishfull thinking again. JB> JB>Excuse me? Where have you been the past year? Are you not aware the Java is JB> JB>a multi-platform language that is right on the edge of taking off? Are you JB>not aware that *giants* like IBM, Novell, Sun, and Netscape have all JB>partnered to give Java momentum? Sounds like you are in denial.. Did I say anything about Java won't be the next software choice? Of course I know Java will be a multi-platform in the near feature. Only if it is a standard. I'm running Java ICQ apps right now. Anyways, It the part when you said "vast majority of software will no longer be made for Microsoft operating system". Hey, when they came out the DVD. Did the CD-ROM went away? When they first introduce a automatic for the cars. Did they get rid of the stick shift. No way. Software company will always make native Windows 95/NT and MAC software regardless of Java. Yes Java will be great for people who can't stand Windows. I'm planning on buying Redhat Linux 5.0 which you can buy it at a computer software store or download it for free on the Internet. It will be perfect to run Java apps on it. But, I can always use WINE(I be glad when it is 100% Win compatible. Still in alpha stage though) emulator to run my Win95/NT apps on Linux. :) BTW, they still need to make java run faster before it can be acceptable in the market. Me think Linux is better than OS/2 and I love their GUI X-Windows. ___ * UniQWK #2003* Austin 3:16 "That's the button line cause Stone Cold say so" --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000)