--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00001Date: 10/28/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 06:02pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) DC> DC> KD> Apple DOS, ProDOS 8, ProDOS 16, and GS/OS are (several) Apple II DC> DC> OSes. DC> KD> What do you want to know? I know a fair bit about their file DC> systems, DC> KD> APIs, hardware support, and so on. DC> For me any information is good. File systems, hardware, Apple DOS was first released in the 3.1 version, as I seem to recall. It used 13 track 5.25" disks. By 3.3, it was on 16 track 5.25 disks. Files had a one character 'type', and a file name which could consist of up to 32 or so characters of any sort except for the comma. Commands included things like: IN#, PR# for redirection of output; INIT prepared a disk for use, RENAME, CATALOG, etc. ProDOS came a long a bit later, c. 1983 (?) and introduced various things, as well as cut back the file name length and in fact restricted that quite a bit vis a vis Apple DOS. However, ProDOS allowed directories, more sophisticated file tyoing (a 16 bit value for both 'TYPE' and 'AUXTYPE' as well as time and date stamping, etc) It also explicitly allowed different interfaces for the OS - one standard one was called BASIC.SYSTEM . It also required 64k of RAM, which ruled out some of the earlier Apple IIs. When the Apple IIgs came out, a 16 bit version of ProDOS was introduced, called ProDOS 16. Eventually, ProDOS 16 was replaced by GS/OS which sported interfaces like BASIC.SYSTEM, and GUIs like 'Finder', which was very much like the current MacOS finder in some respects. The 8 bit version of ProDOS was continued for the other Apple IIs. GS/OS used the same file system as ProDOS, and so disks could be shared between earlier IIs and the IIgs. GS/OS had its own applications, which became rather sophisticated. --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00002Date: 10/28/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 06:10pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) DC> KD> First, Apple IIs are not Macs, second, A/UX runs on DC> What's the difference between Mac's and Apple IIs ?? DC> I don't understand it. Apple has made serveral lines of computers over the years. Currently the Power Macintosh line is the one being made. Apple started with the Apple I, a 6502 based machine with 4k of RAM, then in 1977 introduced the Apple II, a computer which also used the 6502 but came with numerous slots and add ons, as well as being a complete system in its own right, rather than a kit. It is reasonable to say that the Apple II launched the personal computer revolution. New models of the II (II+, IIe, IIc, IIgs, IIc+, and other slight variations were made until 1989). In 1979, Apple started work on two new projects, called the Lisa Project, and the Macintosh Project. The Lisa was the first commercially available computer to sport a GUI on its main OS. Apple had bought the ideas from Xerox's PARC, and substantially innvoated them. Apple's Apple III project had failed, and Apple wanted a machine that would carry it beyond the II. The Lisa was lauded, but didn't sell well on grounds that it was very expensive. In 1984, Apple released another computer, called Macintosh, which was in some sense a 'stripped down' Lisa, but with several innovations of its own, such as 3.5" disks, which were new at the time. Macintosh became very popular and had its own, easy to use OS. Since 1984 Apple has been producing different versions of Macintosh, and as of 1994 has been producing Power Macintoshes, which use IBM/Motorola/Apple PowerPC chips. These systems run the latest MacOS operating system, which is still unparalled in certain key areas. Apple now has a new operating system in the works, Rhapsody, which will be a companion OS to MacOS for certain applications. --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00003Date: 10/26/97 From: DIRK CAP Time: 06:59pm \/To: KYLE HEARN (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 2) Hoy Kyle, When I listen to other people with experience in Unix, and Linux maybe, they change not only the shell but also the kernel or recompile them. I finded havy to do such a thing. In my opinion it is only for the professional. Isn't it ??? KH> The kernel is part of the os, yes. I understand it, yes yes .... :)) DC> response. So I my intention was to write to cray for info DC> but a will wait a few weeks for I go to action. Sorry for my bad english. :/ KH> Look at www.cray.com I will do, thanks. Greetings Dirk (Belgium) ... The system on the Enterprise seems fast, isn't it..... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Lucas Visions (2:292/865) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00004Date: 10/26/97 From: DIRK CAP Time: 07:08pm \/To: KYLE HEARN (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) Hoy Kyle, KH> I believe the minimum requirement was an 020 or 030 but its KH> been a long time since I've run A/UX. Like early 1990s Are you a professional user or a programmer ??? On what base you use AUX ??? Was it for an industrial purpose or database or central-server usage ??? Greetings Dirk (Belgium) ... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Lucas Visions (2:292/865) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00005Date: 10/27/97 From: DIRK CAP Time: 05:23pm \/To: LYNN NASH (Read 1 times) Subj: Ucsd Hoy Lynn, A few mails ago you tell my about UCSD P as an operating system offered by IBM or some one else. And you tell also that Java brings now some stuff back from the old days. Please, tell my more about this OS, his specifications, hardware, file systems and so on. What means the P code symbol ??? In a few weeks i put the whole list on the internet when it is translated to a correct language. Thanks anyway for you answer. Greetings, Dirk (Belgium) ... The system on the Enterprise seems fast, isn't it..... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Lucas Visions (2:292/865) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00006Date: 10/29/97 From: KYLE HEARN Time: 08:11pm \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Dirk Cap: DC> What's the difference between Mac's and Apple IIs ?? DC> I don't understand it. KD> Apple has made serveral lines of computers over the years. KD> Currently the Power Macintosh line is the one being made. KD> Apple started with the Apple I, a 6502 based machine with 4k KD> of RAM, then in 1977 introduced the Apple II, a computer KD> which also used the 6502 but came with numerous slots and KD> add ons, as well as being a complete system in its own KD> right, rather than a kit. KD> It is reasonable to say that the Apple II launched the KD> personal computer revolution. New models of the II (II+, KD> IIe, IIc, IIgs, IIc+, and other slight variations were made KD> until 1989). It is more correct to say that MITS did. KD> In 1979, Apple started work on two new projects, called the KD> Lisa Project, and the Macintosh Project. The Lisa was the KD> first commercially available computer to sport a GUI on its KD> main OS. Apple had bought the ideas from Xerox's PARC, and KD> substantially innvoated them. Apple's Apple III project had KD> failed, and Apple wanted a machine that would carry it KD> beyond the II. The Lisa was lauded, but didn't sell well on KD> grounds that it was very expensive. I would like to know a source for "bought the ideas". I think the words Steve Jobs used was "steal." --- * Origin: Roger Etheridge for ZEC (1:130/911.1008) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00007Date: 10/29/97 From: KYLE HEARN Time: 08:45pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 2) Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Kyle Hearn: DC> When I listen to other people with experience in Unix, and DC> Linux maybe, they change not only the shell but also the DC> kernel or recompile them. I finded havy to do such a thing. DC> In my opinion it is only for the professional. Isn't it ??? You can remove or add things to the kernel like device drivers, ip routing, firewall features, support for various file systems such as mfs, etc. and then you recompile it et voila a new kernel. I normally strip a bsd kernel down to basics and add multicast routing, ip firewall and rip out all the unneeded device drivers and the kernel winds up being a tiny 460 or so kilobytes. It isn't only for the professional, but I wouldn't go altering the os kernel unless you know what you're doing. It's not mandatory that you do this, but nice that you can do it if you like. Unix tends to be an os written by programmers for programmers (although I'm sure I'll catch heck for saying that) and not for the newbie at all. I have a saying that contrary to popular belief, unix is user friendly, but it is very selective about who it makes friends with. NeXT did a nice job "bringing the power of unix down to mere mortals" as one of the first VAR posters said in the late 80s ( a halfway literate person could even install it) DC> response. So I my intention was to write to cray for info DC> but a will wait a few weeks for I go to action. Good luck getting a response unless you run a big company :-) --- * Origin: Roger Etheridge for ZEC (1:130/911.1008) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00008Date: 10/29/97 From: KYLE HEARN Time: 08:55pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Kyle Hearn: DC> Hoy Kyle, KH> I believe the minimum requirement was an 020 or 030 but its KH> been a long time since I've run A/UX. Like early 1990s DC> Are you a professional user or a programmer ??? DC> On what base you use AUX ??? Was it for an industrial DC> purpose or database or central-server usage ??? I ran A/UX quite some time ago since I am somewhat of a unix weenie and have been for a long time. It was such a wretched piece of code that I did little but toy with it. If you were really patient you code eventually get x11 to run on it and do something useful that way, but otherwise, it sucked. Apple made some servers that ran under aux once, killed aux, and then ran later ones under AIX from IBM since AIX sucks less than AUX. As far as unix on a mac, I'll sum it up here: I was at a publishing trade show a while back. An Apple drone was lambasting unix and telling a lady that more web servers ran under System 7 than unix (not true by any stretch of the imagination). He was doing this in front of an Apple server that ran IBM's unix OS, AIX. I asked him if he knew the box he was trying to sell ran Unix, and laughed myself silly as another Apple drone informed him he just made a pretty big fool out of himself. It made for a pretty funny story I posted in alt.sysadmin.recovery. I guess you could say I'm a professional unix user although I started out as a unix end user way back when you had to have permission from a university to be on the internet and there was no web. VMS, SunOS, occasionally a NeXt... you either learned it or stayed off the internet. It is quite nice for web server use, databases, etc. today and will be for some time. It sucks on a mac though. --- * Origin: Roger Etheridge for ZEC (1:130/911.1008) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEZ00009Date: 10/28/97 From: LEE ARONER Time: 10:53am \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) JR> It *can* be used in conjuction with DOSEMU under Linux, but JR> it's not required. It's an operating system by itself. DC> DOSEMU is some sort of layer between the linux kernel and the DOS os. > Am I wright ??? It's a copy of FreeDOS (also known as DOS-C) that's been hacked to run inside a virtualized Intel Machine. LRA -- SPEED 2.00 #2720: If it's in good taste, then I've failed. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EF300000Date: 10/30/97 From: RICH VERAA Time: 04:57pm \/To: ROBERT WHITE (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the que16:57:4410/30/97 In a message to Rich Veraa, Robert White wrote: RV> You were asked the direct question a half-dozen messages ago. The RV> fact that you were unable to answer it is what's pathetic. RW> Well why dont you quote back to me what I was supposedly asked? I don't keep old messages back that far, but to paraphrase, Jack Stein asked you to stop merely repeating that NT performs better than OS/2, but to tell us WHY its performance is better. Go, Marlins! Cheers, Rich http://www.netside.net/~rveraa/ * Origin: Birdsoft - North Miami (1:135/907)