--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEN00004Date: 10/18/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 05:02pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) DC> KH> A/UX ran on Macs DC> I have an old leaflet whitch tells my it was written for the DC> Apple II. DC> Perhaps it runs on all Macs. First, Apple IIs are not Macs, second, A/UX runs on specific Macintosh II models, and specific Quadras, as well as the the Apple Workgroup Server 95 (which is in some sense a Quadra) --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEN00005Date: 10/19/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:06am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 1/2 Hello All! The Moderators of this echo are: Moderator : Dave Raymond - 1:3603/210.12 Co-Moderator: Keith Douglas - 1:167/310 *****RULES***** 1) This conference is dedicated to discussing personal computer systems software such as Operating Systems and Graphical User interfaces. Some samples of suitable topics for discussion are, but are not limited to: Operating system marketing => Microsoft vs. IBM Feature comparisons => Cooperative multitasking vs preemptive multitasking Benchmarking of systems => Speed of DOS or Win16 apps on Windows, Win-OS/2, and NT Hardware issues involving => Multiprocessor cache coherency Operating Systems File systems => FAT vs. HPFS for space allocation Specific products => DOS, Windows, OS/2, DESQview, NT, Unix, Mach, AmigaDOS, MacOS, NeXTStep, etc. Operating systems that don't run on personal computers, such as VMS, OS/MVS, Unicos, etc., may be discussed for purposes of comparison, but if you are interested in in-depth discussions of minicomputer, mainframe, and supercomputer operating systems then it would probably be best to find a different conference, even though you won't be ostracized for such discussion in OS-DEBATE. 1a) Off topic messages are NOT permitted. This does NOT include a message initializing the conference, which is automatically generated by some BBS's. Those messages are acceptible, even if done manually, as long as they are NOT excessive, nor annoying. 2) Whether or not ANY message is annoying, or off topic, or excessive, is solely up to the judgement of the Moderators. 3) A THREE STRIKES system is in effect in this echo, for those who do NOT stay on topic, or violate any other rule. An offender will be given two warnings and then will be asked to leave, as follows: 3a) A warning via this echo. 3b) A warning via Netmail and possibly Echomail, that further offenses will lead to temporary, or permanent banishment from this echo. 3c) A netmail telling you that you ARE banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently, if the Moderator(s) feel that the offense calls for it). 4) If an offense by a poster in this echo is serious enough, Rule 3 may be skipped by the Moderator(s) and the offender will be notified by Netmail and possibly Echomail, that he/she is banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently or indefinitely). Also, a rude or offensive Netmail, or Echomail response to a "warning" Netmail, can be used to issue another warning. 5) If the offender disregards the Moderators request to stay out of the echo, the Moderator will have the feed to that Node (or Net, or Region, if necessary) cut, for as long as is deemed necessary. Remember, your actions may effect many others, by your disregard of the Moderators' request. The Moderator may elect to simply have the feed to that Node, Net, or Region cut, without warning, indefinitely, or permanently. 6) If you wish to discuss an issue further with a Moderator, please take it to netmail. You may netmail either Moderator, as one Moderator will netmail the other to notify him of the action(s) taken. Netmail can be routed and therefore will be of no cost to you, unless you wish to send it Crash to one of the Moderators. 6a) If you wish to discuss an off-topic issue with another user, please do so via Netmail. 6b) If you do not have Netmail access on the system that you post from, then check with your SysOp, to see if he will send the message for you, via Netmail. If not, then you will have to seek out a system that will allow you Netmail access. 7) All users of this echo will be polite and courteous to one another, at all times. Foul language is NOT permitted and personal attacks are NOT permitted. Remember, this is about mail, NOT personalities. 8) If you have a problem with another user, contact one of the Moderators via Netmail. We will monitor the situation and take the appropriate actions, if the situation calls for it. You will be notified via netmail of our response to the situation. In other words, let the Moderators do the moderating. You may not SEE the Moderator working, but rest assured that we are. Some of our communications with a user may be via netmail and therefore, invisible to YOU. 8a) If you initiate an attack on another user, then you are automatically wrong, because whether your insults are valid or not, the user will feel the need to respond and thus a flame-war gets started. 9) The Moderators reserve the right to add and post any additional rule(s), as they become necessary, or are deemed to be for the good of the echo, by the Moderators, at any time, without notice, even if to apply it/them to a current situation. 10) ANSI is NOT permitted in this echo. 11) Handles are NOT permitted in this echo, except by the Moderators, who may post under the handle of "Moderator", so that there will be no question by users of the echo who do NOT yet know who the Moderators are. 12) Excessive quoting is NOT permitted in this echo. Only quote the relevant portion of the message and only enough to maintain the thought of the thread. Do NOT quote Signatures, Tear Lines, nor Origin Lines, unless to show an error, as there is no need for them to be quoted in a message, in order to maintain the thought of the thread. Also, please change the subject line of a message, should the actual subject of the discussion change. Many folks scan messages by subject title and they may miss important information that you have posted, that would be beneficial to them, due to the "Subject Line" appearing to be old, or not related to what they are looking to discuss. Continued in next message..... Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEN00006Date: 10/19/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:06am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 2/2 Hello All! The following is the continuation from the previous message, of the rules of this echo..... *****RULES***** 13) If there is a suggestion that you have, that you feel will be of benefit to the echo, please notify one of the Moderators via Netmail and we will consider your suggestion. If your suggestion is deemed to be of benefit to the echo by the Moderators, we will implement the change and post a message to this effect, including the name of the person who made the suggestion, unless you request anonymity. 14) While signature lines are fine, they should not be excessive. 15) Artwork is NOT permitted, unless part of a signature line and then it must be within the guidelines of Rules 10 and 14. 16) Advertising is NOT allowed in this echo. This includes the advertising of other echos. Do NOT advertise, nor solicit sales in this echo. Do NOT request products from users of this echo. Do not respond to advertisements in this echo. 17) Re-posting news stories, magazine articles, etc., is allowed only as far as "fair use" legalities permit. You can quote portions of articles for the purpose of making your point, but quoting whole articles verbatim is not allowed as it is a copyright violation. (Information that is not copyrighted, or which is explicitly allowed to be distributed -- such as press releases -- can be posted in their entirety, but if only part of it makes your point, then only quote that portion). 18) ENGLISH is the Official language of this echo. 19) If a poster makes a claim, it is up to THAT person to back up said claim, if they are "called" on it. It will NOT be up to the responder to prove that you are incorrect, although they may feel free to do so. 19a) Many times in this echo, folks have made claims and have refused to back them up, claiming that it is up to the person who responded, to prove that they are wrong. In the interests of preventing future long-winded, futile and non-sensical arguments over who should prove what, that evolve into dozens of posts that resolve nothing, this practice will no longer be acceptible. 20) Please be sure to say exactly what you mean. We don't wish to see debates over what was meant by a word, as has happened in the past. Your words can and should be taken at face value, unless otherwise indicated in the ORIGINAL post. Long debates over what is meant by a given word, will be considered to be OFF-TOPIC. It is up to the person posting the ORIGINAL message, to be clear about what it is that they're trying to say. This will help to avoid futile, long-winded arguments, that resolve nothing and merely waste bandwith. 21) The Moderator reserves the right to end a thread, when it has become NON-productive and declare a winner, if any. Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEP00000Date: 10/19/97 From: JONATHAN ROBERTS Time: 09:08am \/To: JOHN GREER (Read 1 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) RE: OS-list to join (part 1) BY: John Greer to Dirk Cap on Sat Oct 18 1997 03:32 pm > I've been looking for info on the above mentioned programs for a > little while know, do you have any idea were to locat information on > it? homepage etc? I don't have it right now, but I'm pretty sure you can find it via Yahoo. Jonathan --- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.25 * Origin: The Caverns BBS - 504.831.2825 (1:396/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00000Date: 10/19/97 From: LYNN NASH Time: 04:08pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 2 times) Subj: Dos-386 DC>Hoy Bas, DC>You write a few days ago, DC>There has been Concurrent/DOS-386 an OS that runs on every 386 DC>and higher that can multitask DOS apps local and on a rs232 DC>workstation. DC>Tell my about it. Is the name "Concurent/DOS-386" the full name DC>of this OS and who constructed this OS ? Concurrent/DOS-386 started life as Concurrent CP/M by Digital Research. Concurrent CP/M could muti-task 4 CPM applicications at a time. You actually got 4 virtual consoles. At the time Digital Research has 3 OS, CP/M (single user, single task); MP/M (multiple users, single task per user); Concurrent CP/M (needed 286). When the PC first started there were basically three OS families for it offered by IBM, CP/M, MS/PC-DOS, UCSD P system (p or pseudo code based; Java bring back some of those aspects). Because of pricing CP/M the leader faultered and DRI (digital Research) changed Concurrent CP/M to Concurrent DOS and its successor Concurrent DOS-386 hoping to stop DRI's market share errosion caused by MS bundling of cheaper DOS. You could multitask 4 DOS programs. The problem was that user's still had not discovered multi-tasking in mass and Concurrent DOS was still expensive. The market also became confused by all the other choices, Desq and DesqView, Topview, Double DOS and the proliferation of TSR's ala Sidekick. TSR's were enough to satisfy most users task switching needs. They still did not really understand multi-tasking yet. Most still don't but the net is probably hammering the concept home now with its requisite background processing. Anyway back to the subject, It was too much to overcome and pick a clear winner among all the contenders. Then came windows 1.0 and GEM both for DOS users with Mac envy, then the joint declaration by MS and IBM that the new Intel winner would be OS/2 1.x. So most people stuck with DOS which was basically free by this time either because it came with your system or from your friend, brother-in-law or relative. Those that thought they really needed multiple programs used the new Desqview which Quarterdeck made by taking the expensive Desq stripping features, speeded it up and slashed the price. GUI's basically won with Windows and GEM runtimes being bundled with software and hardware for DOS users, OS/2 got its GUI too, Unix got X, the Mac always had one so the OS and platform wars started in earnest. --Lynn * SLMR 2.1a * "Future PC's will work by handwaving!" B. Gates Comdex97 --- DB 1.39/004485 * Origin: The Diamond Bar BBS, San Dimas CA, 909-599-2088 (1:218/1001) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00001Date: 10/19/97 From: LYNN NASH Time: 04:08pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 2 times) Subj: Os-list to join (part 2) DC>Hoy Lynn, DC>First of all, I will thank you for all this information. DC>I think to translate the whole list to a general language but DC>I don't know how to circulate the file. I have some questions DC>about specific operating systems. The internet would be the normal way now. Someplace like www.cdrom.com or www.leo.org. www.cdrom.com has special areas for general text files, they also host the Gutenburg electronic book project. cdrom.com also has world wide mirrors. LN> Pick - a combination OS and programming environment DC>On what system it runs and what specific programming language DC>they used ? At one time it was actively being ported to many systems sort of like Unix was. I don't know if it was considered a direct competitor to Unix but it seemed to be in the same market segment. That was custom designed super micros and small mini's which generally used Unix. The programming language appeared similar to a version of SQL with lots of bells and whistles, said to have delusions of grandeur. I belive the programming language was actually called 'English'. Pick was used for inventory, early factory automation, accounting etc. It has probably been replaced by a combination of things like Oracle, Sybase, DB2, and Powerbase on standard OS'es. Pick was officially an OS but I don't think there were other mainstream languages for it because English was tightly coupled to it. I lost track of what happened to Pick but I know its fortunes changed about the time the PC started its rise and hardware became more standardized. LN> GCOS - GE clone of 360 DOS DC>Is GE an operating system or a company name ? General Electric, one of the first to drop out of the mainframe business. --Lynn * SLMR 2.1a * Reincarnation? You mean-you wanna come back HERE --- DB 1.39/004485 * Origin: The Diamond Bar BBS, San Dimas CA, 909-599-2088 (1:218/1001) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00002Date: 10/18/97 From: MODERATOR Time: 02:57am \/To: RICH VERAA (Read 2 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the que02:57:1110/18/97 Rich, RV>> Okay, so you can't think of a single point on which Windows NT's RV>> performance is superior to that of OS/2. RW>> Is that a Question or a statement? RV> A statement. RV>> Pathetic. RW>> Pathetic?.... Why dont you ask me a Direct Question to wich you RW>> can get a direct response? Afraid of the answer you might recieve? RV> You were asked the direct question a half-dozen messages ago. The RV> fact that you were unable to answer it is what's pathetic. Careful. We don't respond that way here. Regardless how much it may seem appropriate to an individual. Thanks! / Dave Raymond - Moderator: O[X%X%X%X]{<>======================================-- \ HS Modems / OS-Debate / BayChat ... Why should *I* bail, when the leak is at *YOUR* end of the boat? --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: No Fear * St. Pete, FL * (1:3603/73.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00003Date: 10/18/97 From: ED KOON Time: 02:44pm \/To: MODERATOR (Read 2 times) Subj: RE: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the14:44:1810/18/97 On Oct 18, 1997 02:57am, MODERATOR wrote to RICH VERAA: RV>> You were asked the direct question a half-dozen messages ago. The RV>> fact that you were unable to answer it is what's pathetic. M> Careful. We don't respond that way here. Regardless how much M> it may seem appropriate to an individual. Hi Dave.. Wondered where you wer hiding. :) -=DOC=- ... Fido Mail, Adult Files & More! 535-3827 & http://droolnet.com --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: Adult Files, Fido Mail & More! http://droolnet.com (1:3603/140) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00004Date: 10/19/97 From: MARK BIRENBAUM Time: 01:14pm \/To: LAWRENCE LUCIER (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Show me the OS's! MB> Linux would _not_ run fine on that set-up, unless he knows MB> all about tweaking it. He certainly could not run X. s LL> Then this guy in the following post must be deluded............. LL> You said that X runs on a 486sx25 w/16 meg ram. I have LL> ran it on my 386sx16 with LL> 4 megs and 16 meg swap. The performance was tolerable LL> until I got more than 2 or LL> three windows up, then the hard drive starts thrashing. This guy is deluded. Last time I checked the docs for slackware, it actually stated it required 8 megs for X, plus four megs of swap. I've never seen it run decently on any system with less than 16 megs. By sixteen, however, it does perform quite nicely. If I recall correctly the guy who started this thread wanted to know of optional OSes for a 386 with 4 megs of memory. Linux is not an option. While it will technically run, he won't be able to do anything much with it. * Nereid * The native OS/2 message editor. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Foundation - (403) 436-1345 / 437-1617 - (1:342/620) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EEQ00005Date: 10/18/97 From: KYLE HEARN Time: 12:07pm \/To: DIRK CAP (Read 2 times) Subj: OS-list to join (part 1) Dirk Cap wrote in a message to Kyle Hearn: DC> On what sort of system it runs ? DC> Is the name Iris-sgi misspelled or just a hackersname or DC> something ? The system is called Irix. It runs on SGI (Silicon Graphics) workstations KH> A/UX ran on Macs DC> I have an old leaflet whitch tells my it was written for the DC> Apple II. Perhaps it runs on all Macs. I believe the minimum requirement was an 020 or 030 but its been a long time since I've run A/UX. Like early 1990s --- * Origin: Roger Etheridge for ZEC (1:130/911.1008)