--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECF00001Date: 08/08/97 From: ROBERT WHITE Time: 09:50am \/To: JOHN MEROTH (Read 1 times) Subj: Software in stores John, In John Meroth's message to Robert White on <05 Aug 97>, John Meroth said: RW>> No there is no rule, but one would think that if a Software RW>> package were any good that any retailer would make it worth thier RW>> while to have that Software on the shelf up-for-sale. JM> I sure have seen a lot of worthless stuff in computer stores. JM> Finding software on a store shelf is no guarentee of quality. I do see your point.. Though you cannot ignore the fact that most residential software sold today is for Win95/NT and not OS/2. Regards, - Robert White [ R_White_@hotmail.com - www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/6715 ] --- FMailX 1.22 * Origin: Terminal Shock; Fidonet; Treknet; +61-2-9771-1182 (3:712/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECF00002Date: 08/08/97 From: ROBERT WHITE Time: 09:52am \/To: LEE ROBERTS (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the Lee, In Lee Roberts's message to Robert White on <05 Aug 97>, Lee Roberts said: RW> RW>>> IC, and where prey tell do you go to purchase all this RW> RW>>> software? Certainly RW>> RW> LR>> The internet, except for Partition Magic. All of those apps RW> LR>> are available either on ftp sites or company web pages. RW>> RW>> Really? Well... I didnt know that Commercial versoins of Software RW>> could be readily purchased over the internet, not any systems that RW>> anyone in thier right mind would trust anyway... LR> There's nothing wrong with conducting business on a secure web server, LR> especially if you have your browser set not to accept cookies, and LR> use reputable sites like Indelible Blue. And how many sites are there like that? How many people would actually DO that? RW> LR>> Nope. I don't consider that to be a drawback. There's no RW> LR>> rule that RW>> RW>> Really i would... that the first place people go to buy software, RW>> thier loc LR> No, that's the first place *Windows* users go to buy software, because LR> many of them aren't capable of any more than that. Ask a serious UNIX LR> user the last time he/she had to go buy software at a retail store. Hahahaha! Yeah right! Pull your head out of the sand.. And take a good look around. Dont you think that if there WAS any good software for OS/2 then they would at least have it on a store shelf? LR> Heck, there's even good Windows software that's *only* available over LR> the internet. Case in point: one day at work I was looking for LR> something on the web when I ran across a shareware demo of an X server LR> for Win NT called XWin32. I downloaded it, tried it, found it useful, LR> ordered a three-user license, and didn't even have to leave my desk. RW>> Harvey Noman or Dick Smith store. LR> Never heard of either of those. Sorry, thats my mistake I forgot that you were from Phoenix ;-) These stores are perhaps the biggest retail outlets for Software/Hardware etc.. RW> LR>> says that good software has to come from a computer store, RW> LR>> nor is there one that says that all software sold in computer RW> LR>> stores is worth buying. RW>> RW>> No there is no rule, but one would think that if a Software RW>> package were an good that any retailer would make it worth thier RW>> while to have that Softwar on the shelf up-for-sale. LR> One would also think that software stores would only stock the *best* LR> software, yet they don't -- you can walk into any software store, and LR> for every good app you might find two or three that are really lame. LR> One would also think that music stores would carry all the best CDs, LR> but they don't -- some of my favorite CDs are things that were LR> independently distributed by the artist and available only through LR> mail order. Bottom line: software stores carry what the mass market LR> (ie, mindless drones) will buy, quality being an afterthought. This may very well be true but it still doesnt change the fact that there is still a much wider selection of software for Win95/NT. LR> Also, by your way of thinking there is no good UNIX software at LR> *all*, LR> since you will almost never find it in your typical software store. LR> If that's really what you're saying, you might want to rethink it, LR> because it's absurd on its face. I did not say that. We are talking only about Win and OS/2. Regards, - Robert White [ R_White_@hotmail.com - www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/6715 ] --- FMailX 1.22 * Origin: Terminal Shock; Fidonet; Treknet; +61-2-9771-1182 (3:712/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECF00003Date: 08/10/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 11:35pm \/To: JOHN MEROTH (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, JM> JS>>> I guess not being capable of doing something is easier than JM> learning JM> JS>>> how how to do something. Unless, of course, you actually need to JM> KD> Explain how GUIs prevent you from doing such. JM> The statement pertains to one's ability to use the CLI to The statement appears to say to me that there are tasks that are impossible via a GUI. Give one example (preferably an every-day-life one) JM> I need to fax a note to a client. Nothing fancy, just a JM> couple of lines. I use: JM> copy con lpt3 JM> This is most certainly easier and faster than opening up an ... AppleScript no doubt can talk directly to modem/printer/etc. ports. JM> LST is a cli program for viewing files. JM> Most noteable example. Use an editor... (eg: BBEdit) JM> Most all of my simple file maintenance I do from CLI as it JM> is faster and easier. For you, *possibly*, but... JM> Perhaps this all stems from my first system, a Cromemco JM> running CROMIX (Their unix) which was strictly a CLI Maybe. Who's to know. --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECF00004Date: 08/10/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 11:35pm \/To: DJ BUSCH (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, DB> DB> loyalty in Mac users DB> DB> many times over. DB> KD> Care to give examples? Then your credibility is shot. --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECF00005Date: 08/10/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 11:36pm \/To: COL GRIFFITHS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Amiga OS CG> > CG> Makes it all Possible CG> > Care to justify this? CG> Oh, And i should of added For the Price CG> ------------- How does that make it meaningful? Makes what possible? for what price? --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECG00000Date: 08/11/97 From: JOHN MEROTH Time: 03:26pm \/To: LEE ROBERTS (Read 1 times) Subj: I'm BACK!!!! Hello Lee! Replying to a message of Lee Roberts to Matt Bedynek: LR> Upon hearing what Lee Roberts said about I'm BACK!!!!, LR> Matt Bedynek became enraged, and said: LR>>> That's really not true. They give instructions on how to re-enable LR>>> Boot Manager on the NT installation readme files. MB>> MB>> Most people don't read the README's! But the point is -why- does the MB>> instal say its incompatible and yet it works? It makes absolutly no MB>> scence whatsoever. LR> Everything that I've seen (in NT) only says that Boot Manager will be LR> disabled during the install process, and then it tells you how to LR> re-enable it. I think that it does recommend killing OS/2 somewhere LR> in the 95 install documentation, though, now that I think about it. So will MS-DOS 6.22. It also will disable boot manager, but it is real easy to fix. TTYL, John Meroth jmeroth@tbos2cla.com --- FleetStreet 1.19 NR * Origin: Tampa Bay OS/2 -- Clarion BBS (1:377/86) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECG00001Date: 08/09/97 From: MATHIEU BOUCHARD Time: 11:02pm \/To: ROBERT WHITE (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the RW>> LR>> XFree86 - port of the UNIX XWindows system RW>> LR>> IRCii - text-mode IRC client (UNIX based) RW> Really? Well... I didnt know that Commercial versoins of Software could RW> be readily purchased over the internet, not any systems that RW> anyone in thier right mind would trust anyway... At least the two i quoted, and probably all the stuff he had listed, is *not* commercial software, and are under the GNU license. matju --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: The Lost Remains Of SatelliteSoft BBS (1:163/215.42) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECG00002Date: 08/10/97 From: LEE ROBERTS Time: 11:51pm \/To: MATT BEDYNEK (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: I'm BACK!!!! Upon hearing what Lee Roberts said about I'm BACK!!!!, Matt Bedynek became enraged, and said: MB> LR> That's really not true. They give instructions on how to re-enable MB> LR> Boot Manager on the NT installation readme files. MB> MB> Most people don't read the README's! But the point is -why- does the instal MB> say its incompatible and yet it works? It makes absolutly no scence MB> whatsoever. Everything that I've seen (in NT) only says that Boot Manager will be isabled during the install process, and then it tells you how to re-enable it. I think that it does recommend killing OS/2 somewhere in the 95 install documentation, though, now that I think about it. --- Launch Line 6.66 * Origin: The Launching Pad Phoenix, AZ (602)864-6610 (1:114/513) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECG00003Date: 08/11/97 From: JOHN MEROTH Time: 10:43am \/To: ROBERT WHITE (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the Hello Robert! Replying to a message of Robert White to Lee Roberts: LR>> There's nothing wrong with conducting business on a secure web LR>> server, especially if you have your browser set not to accept LR>> cookies, and use reputable sites like Indelible Blue. RW> And how many sites are there like that? How many people would actually RW> DO that? Sites, hundreds, if not thousands. People? A market potential of over 40 billion now. LR>> No, that's the first place *Windows* users go to buy software, LR>> because many of them aren't capable of any more than that. Ask a LR>> serious UNIX user the last time he/she had to go buy software at a LR>> retail store. RW> Hahahaha! Yeah right! Pull your head out of the sand.. And take a good RW> look around. Dont you think that if there WAS any good software for RW> OS/2 then they would at least have it on a store shelf? Nope! Why buy space in a store aimed at the home market when OS/2 users have the ability to use the future of marketing. RW>>> Harvey Noman or Dick Smith store. LR>> Never heard of either of those. RW> Sorry, thats my mistake I forgot that you were from Phoenix ;-) RW> These stores are perhaps the biggest retail outlets for RW> Software/Hardware etc.. Hum they are not in Pheonix nore are they in Tampa FL. COMPUSA OTOH is here, there and everywhere. RW>>> RW>>> No there is no rule, but one would think that if a Software RW>>> package were an good that any retailer would make it worth thier RW>>> while to have that Softwar on the shelf up-for-sale. You BUY the right to be on a major chain's shelves. RW> I did not say that. We are talking only about Win and OS/2. A great deal of OS/2 software is ported from UNIX. Many of the OS/2 TCPIP tools that are supplied with OS/2 are direct ports of the UNIX program. It takes but a few minutes to re-compile the Unix source for OS/2. TTYL, John Meroth jmeroth@tbos2cla.com --- FleetStreet 1.19 NR * Origin: Tampa Bay OS/2 -- Clarion BBS (1:377/86) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: ECG00004Date: 08/11/97 From: JOHN MEROTH Time: 10:49am \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 1 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, Hello Keith! Replying to a message of Keith Douglas to John Meroth: JS>>>>> I guess not being capable of doing something is easier than JM>> learning JS>>>>> how how to do something. Unless, of course, you actually need to KD>>> Explain how GUIs prevent you from doing such. JM>> The statement pertains to one's ability to use the CLI to KD> The statement appears to say to me that there are tasks that are KD> impossible via a GUI. Give one example (preferably an KD> every-day-life one) Your reader (or perhaps, JS's reader) clips the lines instead of wrapping them. I was not stating that there were some things that you could do from a CLI that could not be done from a GUI. What I stated was that in many cases a CLI is better suited to the task. Examples: Harddisk cleanup where you know the file names that have to be deleted is much easier to do from a CLI interface. I have a REXX script that kicks off my backup (A GUI program), but does it after deleting all thosw temp files that get created when programming. The REXX script is a CLI. When I need to fax a note to someone and I don't need to do it in a fancy manner, I'll use COPY CON LPT3 to write the note. once I ^X (F6) the note, Faxworks will ask me where to send it. (only the Faxworks printer driver is running) I'll still have to crank up Faxworks to send the fax. Granted if I ran Faxworks to answer my fax calls, I would not use this system. Since my Fax number is also one of my BBS/FIDO nodes using BinkleyTerm (A CLI program). BT recieves faxes and executes a little utility to convert the BTFAX to a FAXWORKS FAX and update the FAX log. Very transparent. JM>> LST is a cli program for viewing files. JM>> Most noteable example. KD> Use an editor... Why should I waste a couple megs of memory on a machine whose MINIMUM tasklist is 20 tasks? KD> (eg: BBEdit) JM>> Most all of my simple file maintenance I do from CLI as it JM>> is faster and easier. KD> For you, *possibly*, but... But what? Using the commandline uses far less memory for actions as well as desplaying the results of those actions. Regardless of the hardware, if there is a CLI, then it's usage will require less memory and less CPU cycles. JM>> Perhaps this all stems from my first system, a Cromemco JM>> running CROMIX (Their unix) which was strictly a CLI KD> Maybe. Who's to know. Anyone that goes that far back! :-) TTYL, John Meroth jmeroth@tbos2cla.com --- FleetStreet 1.19 NR * Origin: Tampa Bay OS/2 -- Clarion BBS (1:377/86)