--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00002Date: 06/20/97 From: DAVE RAYMOND Time: 09:40pm \/To: DENIS TONN (Read 2 times) Subj: Os/2 Denis, LK>> I know.. it runs it faster! (This from experience on an LK>> ***IBM*** laptop, P120 with 32MB of RAM). My friend's laptop (he LK>> works at IBM) came with 3 HD's. On one HD I installed OS/2 Warp 4, LK>> the other 95 and the last NT4. NT4 runs the best and easiest with LK>> many great laptop features. OS/2 ran the worse.. he had to LK>> reinstall it 3 times.. and HPFS didn't even want to install! And LK>> all this on a $10,000+ IBM laptop! DT> I probably have exactly the same laptop, a 760ED. My experiences are DT> QUITE different from yours. OS/2 went on clean and simple. I fought DT> with NT 4 off and on for 3 weeks to get it into anything resembling a DT> "usable" state. Even now there are a LOT of "laptop" features that I DT> use regularly with OS/2 that I cannot get working with NT. Try DT> pointing your hibernate file to a NTFS partition for one example.. DT> The only problem I had with OS/2 and the laptop was related to MWAVE DT> and suspend (not hibernate). Fixed by a MWAVE update and FP1. You mean you didn't like the way that NT 4.0 wouldn't find a SCSI CD-ROM Drive? And of course, you must have fallen in love with the way that it finds an IDE CD-ROM Drive and then lists it as a SCSI device. :) / Dave Raymond - Moderator: O[X%X%X%X]{<>======================================-- \ HS Modems / OS-Debate / BayChat ... Truck pulls: for people that can't understand wrestling. --- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: No Fear * St. Pete, FL * (1:3603/210.12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00003Date: 06/20/97 From: LARRY KLINE Time: 12:50am \/To: TOM NADEAU (Read 2 times) Subj: Win95 annoyances TN> MR> For the specific example here, it meant that while > MR> I was moving files from > MR> D: to E:\Drive_D, I could not begin another copy operation from C: to > MR> E:\Drive_C. TN>Okay, just try reading the A: drive after the W95 PC has been sitting for >half an hour. With those new 16X CDROMs, you might have to wait for it to >spin up before it will release the cursor. >Some "multitasking", eh?? Just tried it Tom and my A: drive came right up and this is with a 18x CDROM. What did you mean by " you might have to wait for it to spin up before it will release the cursor." Do you have to wait for it or not? I don't seem to have that problem......Does this mean that you have this problem and I don't or what????? --- * OLX 3.01 31-1897 * All rising to a great place is by a winding stair. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Glass Menagerie II (610) 376-1819 (1:2607/401.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00004Date: 06/21/97 From: ERIC JONES Time: 04:12pm \/To: ANTHONY TIBBS (Read 2 times) Subj: OS'es *NOTE: IceEdit 2.30 [Eval] -=> Quoting Anthony Tibbs to Ektoras Karagiannis <=- EK> I use Winblows as well because I need it for my work, which includes EK> word processing and spreadsheets for the institute i'm working on. AT> Oh oh oh. What's the problem, Ektoras? Couldn't you find a word AT> processor or spreadsheet that would do your work good enough under AT> OS/2 or Linux? Didn't think you would. I hear tell that Lotus Smartsuite, StarOffice, and Accucount/2 are nice OS/2 word proccessor and spreadsheat programs. EK> OS/2 Warp. Almost every one of them is using the latter two EK> together with '95 as well. Basically, i'm glad they did change to AT> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AT> Well, well, well. See? OS/2 can't be used alone! Win95 is a AT> required tool it seems! OS/2 doesn't have what they need. Baloney. You just have to look harder to find the apps since IBM doesn't have a monopoly on the OS market like MS does. If your searching skills don't go beyond checking the shelves at Wal-Mart, Software Etc, Babbages, etc, then I guess you're stuck with the buggiest OS on earth. AT> I can get everything I want done all on one platform (that AT> includes programming, work, school work, entertainment, AT> and whatever else you want to include). I've passed a few programming classes (TP, C/C++, VB), and had no problem getting my homework done in OS/2. I love to play games (Doom, Quake, X-Wing, TIE fighter, Star Control 3, Tyrian, Worms, etc) under OS/2, all while running a BBS in the background. Were I running a business I could use Lotus Smartuite, StarOffice, and/or AccuCount/2. AT> I've used OS/2. Oh yeah? How long? Long enought to get frustrated because you couldn't find an app for it at Wal-Mart, and then switch back to WIN? AT> It isn't as great as you claim. Even if it wasn't, it's definately not as bad as you claim. AT> If I want to get something DONE productively, I don't want to be AT> rebooting and switching operating systems to get other information AT> and blah blah blah. You get the point. Anthony You *don't* have to if you just go out and track down the apps you want for OS/2. No, it's not as easy as driving down to Babbages and picking up some WINxx app. However the advantages of using an OS that is fast, stable, and multitasks circles around WIN more than make up for it. Eric Jones - [OS/2 & TG] - ericmjones@juno.com ... #1 OS/2 tip: Drag the Windows folder to the shreader!!! ~~~ TGWave v1.20 Beta-07+ --- Telegard v3.02/mL * Origin: Courier Central \ Cashion, OK \ 405.433.2665 (1:147/92) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00005Date: 06/22/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:04am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 1/2 Hello All! The Moderators of this echo are: Moderator : Dave Raymond - 1:3603/210.12 Co-Moderator: Keith Douglas - 1:167/310 *****RULES***** 1) This conference is dedicated to discussing personal computer systems software such as Operating Systems and Graphical User interfaces. Some samples of suitable topics for discussion are, but are not limited to: Operating system marketing => Microsoft vs. IBM Feature comparisons => Cooperative multitasking vs preemptive multitasking Benchmarking of systems => Speed of DOS or Win16 apps on Windows, Win-OS/2, and NT Hardware issues involving => Multiprocessor cache coherency Operating Systems File systems => FAT vs. HPFS for space allocation Specific products => DOS, Windows, OS/2, DESQview, NT, Unix, Mach, AmigaDOS, MacOS, NeXTStep, etc. Operating systems that don't run on personal computers, such as VMS, OS/MVS, Unicos, etc., may be discussed for purposes of comparison, but if you are interested in in-depth discussions of minicomputer, mainframe, and supercomputer operating systems then it would probably be best to find a different conference, even though you won't be ostracized for such discussion in OS-DEBATE. 1a) Off topic messages are NOT permitted. This does NOT include a message initializing the conference, which is automatically generated by some BBS's. Those messages are acceptible, even if done manually, as long as they are NOT excessive, nor annoying. 2) Whether or not ANY message is annoying, or off topic, or excessive, is solely up to the judgement of the Moderators. 3) A THREE STRIKES system is in effect in this echo, for those who do NOT stay on topic, or violate any other rule. An offender will be given two warnings and then will be asked to leave, as follows: 3a) A warning via this echo. 3b) A warning via Netmail and possibly Echomail, that further offenses will lead to temporary, or permanent banishment from this echo. 3c) A netmail telling you that you ARE banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently, if the Moderator(s) feel that the offense calls for it). 4) If an offense by a poster in this echo is serious enough, Rule 3 may be skipped by the Moderator(s) and the offender will be notified by Netmail and possibly Echomail, that he/she is banned from the echo and for how long (possibly permanently or indefinitely). Also, a rude or offensive Netmail, or Echomail response to a "warning" Netmail, can be used to issue another warning. 5) If the offender disregards the Moderators request to stay out of the echo, the Moderator will have the feed to that Node (or Net, or Region, if necessary) cut, for as long as is deemed necessary. Remember, your actions may effect many others, by your disregard of the Moderators' request. The Moderator may elect to simply have the feed to that Node, Net, or Region cut, without warning, indefinitely, or permanently. 6) If you wish to discuss an issue further with a Moderator, please take it to netmail. You may netmail either Moderator, as one Moderator will netmail the other to notify him of the action(s) taken. Netmail can be routed and therefore will be of no cost to you, unless you wish to send it Crash to one of the Moderators. 6a) If you wish to discuss an off-topic issue with another user, please do so via Netmail. 6b) If you do not have Netmail access on the system that you post from, then check with your SysOp, to see if he will send the message for you, via Netmail. If not, then you will have to seek out a system that will allow you Netmail access. 7) All users of this echo will be polite and courteous to one another, at all times. Foul language is NOT permitted and personal attacks are NOT permitted. Remember, this is about mail, NOT personalities. 8) If you have a problem with another user, contact one of the Moderators via Netmail. We will monitor the situation and take the appropriate actions, if the situation calls for it. You will be notified via netmail of our response to the situation. In other words, let the Moderators do the moderating. You may not SEE the Moderator working, but rest assured that we are. Some of our communications with a user may be via netmail and therefore, invisible to YOU. 8a) If you initiate an attack on another user, then you are automatically wrong, because whether your insults are valid or not, the user will feel the need to respond and thus a flame-war gets started. 9) The Moderators reserve the right to add and post any additional rule(s), as they become necessary, or are deemed to be for the good of the echo, by the Moderators, at any time, without notice, even if to apply it/them to a current situation. 10) ANSI is NOT permitted in this echo. 11) Handles are NOT permitted in this echo, except by the Moderators, who may post under the handle of "Moderator", so that there will be no question by users of the echo who do NOT yet know who the Moderators are. 12) Excessive quoting is NOT permitted in this echo. Only quote the relevant portion of the message and only enough to maintain the thought of the thread. Do NOT quote Signatures, Tear Lines, nor Origin Lines, unless to show an error, as there is no need for them to be quoted in a message, in order to maintain the thought of the thread. Also, please change the subject line of a message, should the actual subject of the discussion change. Many folks scan messages by subject title and they may miss important information that you have posted, that would be beneficial to them, due to the "Subject Line" appearing to be old, or not related to what they are looking to discuss. Continued in next message..... Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00006Date: 06/22/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 12:04am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 2/2 Hello All! The following is the continuation from the previous message, of the rules of this echo..... *****RULES***** 13) If there is a suggestion that you have, that you feel will be of benefit to the echo, please notify one of the Moderators via Netmail and we will consider your suggestion. If your suggestion is deemed to be of benefit to the echo by the Moderators, we will implement the change and post a message to this effect, including the name of the person who made the suggestion, unless you request anonymity. 14) While signature lines are fine, they should not be excessive. 15) Artwork is NOT permitted, unless part of a signature line and then it must be within the guidelines of Rules 10 and 14. 16) Advertising is NOT allowed in this echo. This includes the advertising of other echos. Do NOT advertise, nor solicit sales in this echo. Do NOT request products from users of this echo. Do not respond to advertisements in this echo. 17) Re-posting news stories, magazine articles, etc., is allowed only as far as "fair use" legalities permit. You can quote portions of articles for the purpose of making your point, but quoting whole articles verbatim is not allowed as it is a copyright violation. (Information that is not copyrighted, or which is explicitly allowed to be distributed -- such as press releases -- can be posted in their entirety, but if only part of it makes your point, then only quote that portion). 18) ENGLISH is the Official language of this echo. 19) If a poster makes a claim, it is up to THAT person to back up said claim, if they are "called" on it. It will NOT be up to the responder to prove that you are incorrect, although they may feel free to do so. 19a) Many times in this echo, folks have made claims and have refused to back them up, claiming that it is up to the person who responded, to prove that they are wrong. In the interests of preventing future long-winded, futile and non-sensical arguments over who should prove what, that evolve into dozens of posts that resolve nothing, this practice will no longer be acceptible. 20) Please be sure to say exactly what you mean. We don't wish to see debates over what was meant by a word, as has happened in the past. Your words can and should be taken at face value, unless otherwise indicated in the ORIGINAL post. Long debates over what is meant by a given word, will be considered to be OFF-TOPIC. It is up to the person posting the ORIGINAL message, to be clear about what it is that they're trying to say. This will help to avoid futile, long-winded arguments, that resolve nothing and merely waste bandwith. 21) The Moderator reserves the right to end a thread, when it has become NON-productive and declare a winner, if any. Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAR00007Date: 06/21/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:17am \/To: ANTHONY TIBBS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the08:17:5806/21/97 Anthony Tibbs wrote in a message to Ektoras Karagiannis: AT> On Jun 15 16:11, 1997, Leon Kiriliuk of 1:250/532 wrote: EK>> I use Winblows as well because I need it for my work, which EK>> includes word processing and spreadsheets for the institute i'm EK>> working on. AT> Oh oh oh. What's the problem, Ektoras? Couldn't you find a AT> word processor or spreadsheet that would do your work good AT> enough under OS/2 or Linux? Didn't think you would. More likely if where he works is using proprietary software that only runs on WIN95, he must run WIN95 to use it, same as he must run UNIX if they use proprietary UNIX apps, or OS/2 if they run proprietary OS/2 apps. EK>> OS/2 Warp. Almost every one of them is using the latter two EK>> together with '95 as well. Basically, i'm glad they did change to AT> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ AT> Well, well, well. See? OS/2 can't be used alone! Thats stupid! OS/2 won't run proprietary WIN95 apps, or Unix apps. AT> Win95 is a required tool it seems! OS/2 doesn't have what they AT> need. More stupid stuff. If they run OS/2 also, then I guess WIN95 doesn't have what they need, and the same goes for Unix. AT> I can get everything I want done all on one platform (that AT> includes programming, work, school work, entertainment, and AT> whatever else you want to include). I could, and did, get everything I needed done on DOS 2.1... AT> I've used OS/2. It isn't as great as you claim. If I want to AT> get something DONE productively, I don't want to be rebooting AT> and switching operating systems to get other information and AT> blah blah blah. I've been getting things done for years and never booted into DOS, or DOS/WIN, or DOS/WIN95 once. In fact, I removed WIN completly from my system as useless junk, and never missed it once. OS/2 runs more WP's, COMM's, Editors, Languages, Databases, Spreadsheets, CAD's, Internet toys, BBS's and so on than I need. I'm at a loss as to what "productive work" needs done that OS/2 won't do? It's an OS, and will run anything programed for it, or DOS, or WIN, with very, very few exceptions. AT> You get the point. I do, do you? Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAS00000Date: 06/19/97 From: LEON KIRILIUK Time: 09:13pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Buggy OS or Buggy apps? DB> Win95 echo -- the opinion of several folks is that Microsoft should DB> not have released Office 97 until quite a few bug fixes were done. That's wierd David. Are you trying to say that MS is so "unsatable" with their apps, how couldn't they with their OS, right? Hmm.. this is so typical! A few years ago (around 2 to be exact) a big debate going around when one talked OS/2 vs Windows is Netscape vs. IBM Exp. Back then they were very similar feature wise. And you know what most OS/2 users said? Most of them said Netscape is buggy, it is worthless, and they will NEVER EVER use it. Yet the moment NS announced they navigator for OS/2, eveybodies ideas changed over night! Over night everybody forgot about the bugs and were happy. When the first beta's came out, and had more bugs than all the netscape bugs ever combined in one, nobody said anything about it. When the final came out with more bugs than a NS win32 version, novody said a word.. you know why? Because it's the only good Web browser for OS/2, so how can you put it down? ;) It is really sad to see how OS/2 users fight over every single bug they can dream about or once read on some remote newsgroup, but the moment that application comes out on their platform, with more and newer bugs, they seem to forget all about them! You know, 2 can play at that game. ;) When you read newsgroups, do you use PMINews for OS/2? If so, why don't you tell the rest of us how "buggy" it is, yet it is the best OS/2 newsgreader around (not bad for 35$ US) while win32 users have Agent which is very stable, a ton more features, and is freeware.. And that's only the begining. There are a ton of great applications for win32 which are freeware and much better than even the OS/2 commercial applications! (another example, Pegasis mail for Windows95/NT.. top notch mail reader, multiple accounts, supports up to like 10,000 users at the same time over Novell netware, and an address book so powerful, you can save the person's picutre!) but you OS/2 users won't know anything about that, now would you.. ;) Leon Kiriliuk --- * Origin: The Sight & Sound BBS (416)665-6908 (1:250/532) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAS00001Date: 06/19/97 From: LEON KIRILIUK Time: 05:18pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: I'm BACK!!!! JB> Well, it costs more, it takes up more room, I guess you're right.. Then can you care to explain why sell about a copy every 3 seconds ever since it came out? Let me guess, it's a blind world. But you know better, right? JB> Lotus is like a nasty step-child that hates it's step-father (IBM).. Excuses, excuses.. that's all OS/2 users have for why they don't have great applications for their platform. Then care to explain why IBM has ports of all their applications for NT and Win95 and any web page you visit which has IBM adds on have the NT adds and never an OS/2 add? Come to think of it, I never did see an OS/2 banner from IBM on the net!!! Leon Kiriliuk --- * Origin: The Sight & Sound BBS (416)665-6908 (1:250/532) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAS00002Date: 06/19/97 From: LEON KIRILIUK Time: 05:26pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: I'm BACK!!!! DB> damn ugly and try changing it. Then we have to look at some of the DB> oddities in the file save dialogs -- of course, those aren't bugs, DB> they're features! Well, enjoy your out dated WordPro, unsupported WP, or you can use E-Editor! DB> You might want to check Microsoft's web site or knowledge base. DB> There are well over your scoffed at 100+ bugs listed. Well, I haven't personally seen that. But the points remains that if you don't like MS Office, don't use it! I can purchase the complete Corel Office for Windows 95 (Educational) for 45$ CDN! If that is not a GREAT price, I don't know what is! And it does a hell of a lot more stuff than anything OS/2 has COMBINED! And not only that, Corel Office is rated better than MS Office, what is your excuse now for Corel not supporting OS/2? Leon Kiriliuk P.S. Say, what ever happen with Creative Labs and OS/2? Have they really dropped OS/2 support PERMENANTLY!? --- * Origin: The Sight & Sound BBS (416)665-6908 (1:250/532) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: EAS00003Date: 06/19/97 From: LEON KIRILIUK Time: 05:15pm \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: OS/2 JB> That's news to me.. Explain why there is even talk about the popcorn JB> to get NT 4.0 to read HPFS.. Are you running NT 4.0? Have you done Not at the moment. HPFS and NTFS are much more similar than you think! I've heard of people using NT4 and being able to see HPFS partitions, and better yet, I've read about people using OS/2 warp 3 and being able to see NTFS partitions! JB> like wasting my time going though another installation when OS/2 does JB> better/faster than NT can *any* day. How did we jump from parition accessability to speed?? JB> What's so great about NTFS? It's already proven to be slower than HOW? It's the drivers that count, not the partition! The way data is stored on the HD isn't as important as how you read/write to the drive! Under OS/2 HPFS is 16-bit! Plus, NTFS is more secure! (If you run a network) JB> Hmm... Let me think for about 2 seconds.. I can continue running the JB> software I have now, or waste my money on the new bug-ridden software JB> Microsoft.. Not a very tough decision.. Windows Software ~= Microsoft. You OS/2 users should get that through your head. As well, Windows Software ~= bug-ridden. In fact, from my experience with os/2 for almost 3 years, OS/2 applications (not the OS itself) have a lot more BUGS! JB> Actually, I don't know why I'd even need to bother doing these tests, JB> already been proven that OS/2 runs it faster/better.. Enjoy running your worthless and cheap OS/2 applications, or all those "great" windows 3.1 applications. I'll stick to top of the line 32-bit applications, thank you. Leon Kiriliuk --- * Origin: The Sight & Sound BBS (416)665-6908 (1:250/532)