--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00039Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 04:16pm \/To: STEVE STEFFLER (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? [ Quoting steve steffler to Scott Little ] SL> I said Java is falling apart. And it is. Already there is a SL> LOT of platform specific code. MUCH more than was ever intended. SL> The whole concept of Java went bust. ss> And who is to thank for that? Microsoft, for one. One minute, you're complaining how MS are using ActiveX to monopolise the situation, and now you're claiming they are actually interested in Java? Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00040Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 04:16pm \/To: STEVE STEFFLER (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting steve steffler to Scott Little ] GC>> You don't have to run Hstart if you don't want, it only GC>> offers you the availability of customizing your SL> How else do I start/synchronise an OS/2 program from a DOS SL> box? ss> Hmm. The START command? ".. from a DOS box". START only works from a OS2 command line. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00041Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 04:17pm \/To: STEVE STEFFLER (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting steve steffler to Scott Little ] ss> Then NovaBack for OS/2 probably would work as well, and it just as ss> easily could have been the second or third you tried, rather than the ss> nineth Possibly, but I didn't happen to have it. SL> 'DOS/32'? Win32 programs are STARTED from a DOS box, they SL> don't run in one. The only difference is that DOS boxes have enough SL> Windows code in them to detect a Windows program and start a SL> Windows session. ss> So does an OS/2 'box'. If I start a DOS or Win session from an OS2 CL, I don't get to specify any settings. OS2 just gets them from the generic ones. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00042Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 04:22pm \/To: STEVE STEFFLER (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting steve steffler to Scott Little ] JB>> Somebody ought to put you out of your misery and buy you a JB>> Mac... You'd love it.. SL> Hell no. The software situation with a Mac is a hundred times SL> worse than with OS2. Same deal with the hardware. ss> What's the problem with Apple hardware? It seems pretty good to me. I mean, I would have to go out of my way to find anything more than a mouse or memory for a Mac. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00043Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 04:23pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Jack Stein to Scott Little ] JS> time. You, for some reason get told your computers too slow? How do JS> you explain this Scott, is the world against you or what? Probably because some people know I use Windows, they just want to be omplete 's and ignore me. So much for OS2 users being the "professional" ones. JS> Your posts were not cries for help, they were statements of dislike. I put the questions straight out. eg: I am doing this under Windows at the moment, how can I do this under OS2. SL> That was one problem that only happened once. I haven't SL> mentioned it since have I? JS> You've mentioned it enough I mentioned it, at least twice, no more than five times, all in the same day it happened. JS> imply that OS/2 sucked because of that, and NOW you say it only JS> happened once, and never happened again... Someone was trying to tell me OS2 never crashed and it was just so perfect. It seemed to be a perfect example of how anything can stuff up, even OS2. JS> problem that happened once, never happened again, and likely was not JS> OS/2 problem to begin with I have not changed the hardware since (except to add an internal modem just a week ago). The rest of the hardware is exactly the same as when it botched. Only thing I can come up with is that OS2's installation program isn't that great. The freeze occured just after a fresh install (format HDD, the works). SL> You on the other hand have probably only used Win95 for half an SL> hour, yet continue to regurgitate the same problems you had as SL> though they were an on-going saga. JS> That's another lie It's a 'guess', based on what I read. JS> I've mentioned several times that the problems computer illiterates JS> are having with DOS/WIN95 are so unbelievable that even a lame MS JS> product could not possibly be that bad. The user's make it lame. If more people who knew what they were doing used Win95 you'd hear far less horror stories about it. About all you'd hear is "..to fix that you change this..". Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00044Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:30pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hell [ Quoting Jack Stein to Scott Little ] SL> HPFS does it's best to prevent #2, and the best way to do SL> that it via #1. Well look here! "A HPFS >>DISK<< is SL> fragmented permanently...". Seems I was right, and you can't JS> Your point is stupid, and meaningless, ie, silly. Explain to me how, Mr. Einstein. SL> Before then I was making good arguments. Since then, my SL> arguements have "not been upto their previous level". JS> Your arguments ebb and tide like everyones. You do OK for a kid, and JS> not too bad for a WIN finatic For a Win fanatic, have a look at my mail tosser. Again, I am neutral. If I decide (or someone convinces me) that something is better than what I am using, I will use it. I installed OS2 on the 486, and moved the BBS onto that machine. I gained little from using OS2, other than 150meg slack space is recovered (1.6 gig total files), and I get to learn more about OS2, while I'm trying to get the BBS to run faster/smoother. JS> fact you are making an attempt to use OS/2 is curious Curious? Do you find it difficult to believe someone doesn't have to play favourites all the time? JS> your head on straight, you may see their is more to computing than JS> buying the latest and greatest junkware at Kmart. I've bought two applications in my life. MSDOS 6, and Norton Commander. NC I still use, DOS6 is gathering dust. Everything else I have is either OEM, used, or for the games, from people who play them for a week and then get bored with it - then give it to me. SL> Stuff it. You should know why I called him that by now. JS> Calling one Scotty didn't phase me It doesn't worry me either, it's just he's trying to win the argument by making me look a mere child, who is not worth arguing with. A childish tactic in itself. JS> his last name into a slur, much more offensive. Your age and your OS JS> of choice had zip to do with it. I did not set out to create such an 'offensive' remark. But it was just so obvious, it was begging for it (as was he). It doesn't matter anyway. The moderators don't like it, and Dave seems to be back, and he hates my guts so much he'll die from stress before I hit 21. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00045Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:31pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Jack Stein to Scott Little ] JS> Considering you have no use for batch files, I'm not surprised. SL> Where did you get that idea? It's both wrong and absurd. JS> Was it not you that told me exactly that, and that you had 3 batch JS> files you used with your BBS? I didn't say I had no use for them. I try to keep them as centralised as I possibly can. Probably because I program a bit every now and then, it carries over and my batch files tend to become compicated. Which is easier to manage. It's changed however, since my BBS is DOS based, and about half the BBS utils I use have OS2 versions, I use HSTART and a bunch of batch files (the .CMD kind) to run them. Don't really care anymore. I used to take 'pride' in an efficient, refined computer system, but I really couldn't be bothered nymore. All that matters is what the user sees. Not what makes it tick. SL> Does that include specifying the settings for that new SL> session? JS> If I want unique settings, I need a .cmd file to tell the system to JS> use the icons settings, or the START command that comes with my JS> Command processor to give unique settings for that session, but that JS> was NOT the issue, now was it? Not really. I've done it the other way. Main part runs in the DOS session, breaking off into a OS2 session every now and then to run mail/maintainance utils. Since OS2 sessions don't have any extra settings, it's a lot quicker and easier to implement it. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00046Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:36pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? [ Quoting Jack Stein to Scott Little ] JS> Since OS/2 runs all DOS and all DOS/WIN apps (except a few WIN95 only JS> apps) and many many thousands of OS/2 apps. Haven't we been over this a hundred times before? If you go grab 100 Win95 apps off the shelf, I guarantee, OS2 with Win32s will not be able to run even a quarter. Even if the program is compiled for Win32s, it may still use Win95 features, such as the system tray, the taskbar, and the rest of Win95's 32bit Win95- only drivers. JS> UNIX is a prime example of (almost) total flexability. SL> Flexibility is NOT choices. JS> Flexability IS choices. Ok, choices are PART OF flexability. They are not the same. Flexable means being able to customise the program(s) I chose to run. To accept different inputs, process it differently, and produce a personalised output. JS> People running to Kmart to buy the latest new game are not what JS> defines a hobbiest to me There you go with your games again.... Have to checked the applications section recently? There are fancy new apps and other things that people might want to try, that are only for Windows. JS> illiterate, and anyone running a BBS for a number of years knows that JS> the bigger the file sucker, the less experience and knowledge the user JS> has. Tagline: ... my hard disk is full, I think I'll try this message section thingy! JS> WIN95 is the choice of those that know little, those that have JS> experience in more than one OS seldom, if ever, choose DOS/WIN as JS> their OS of choice. The reason is simple, DOS/WIN sucks, always has. Yes, but that's not the whole story. For example, me. I like to try all the lastest software (usually not games). After I tested it, I will normally delete it. But without Win95 or NT, I can't. JS> The people I work with, all computer illiterates, are buying JS> computers now, and of course all have DOS/WIN95, a good choice JS> because it comes installed. SL> They are simply users. They have to write a report, maybe SL> use it for entertainment etc. But they don't use it becuase SL> they like computers. JS> Exactly my point. Yes, but I use it because I DO like computers. I like to use all the new software available (after all, the software we run is the primary reason for having the OS). The BBS machine is there in case I want to have a look at the odd OS2 program, which is not often. Mainly, the only software I test for OS2 is stuff people mention in here. Usually not as good as it's made out to be, like MR/2. SL> User: "Tech Support! I lost all my FILES!" JS> Yes, of course, and is the reason they are stuck with whatever comes JS> installed on their PC, which is always DOS/WIN. I was programming a VIC20 when I was 8, and installing Linux when I was 3-14. I assure you, I use Win95 from my own free choice, not because it came installed. JS> up. They would fair no better if OS/2 were installed, they would have JS> the same problems. I have to disagree. Win95 does not require CONFIG.SYS. OS2 does. Aside from selecting new video drivers or starting the Selective Uninstall, the lamer would have a hard time finding something to destroy. It's only when the Luser finds the config.sys and starts deleting the pretty little installable file systems (just for fun of course) that they'll have problems. Under Win95, the whole lot is point-n-click. Go into control panel > system and start removing drivers etc. from the fancy list. System dead in a few minutes. Serves em right. Newbies need to be given DOS to learn first. At least there is less to stuff up, and when it does, it only takes a few minutes to reinstall/fix. JS> My point is that regardless of what OS comes installed, the user will JS> have the same problems True, but depends how persistant the person is, and what they can find by 'accident'. SL> I think that's the whole idea of this network PC. Minimal [snip] JS> of money, then its not a bad idea. :) Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00047Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:38pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Jack Stein to Scott Little ] SL> It's a CLI actually. With a "bloatware GUI kludge" on top of SL> it. But without the GUI, a lot of OS2's strong points are SL> lost. JS> Some are lost, like multiple sessions on the screen at once, which is JS> what I use the gui for mostly. JS> Other than that, I couldn't agree with you more. You agree with me? Not good.. Should I call you a doctor? SL> want. I have no need to change. If Windows stops doing what SL> I want, I will change. No sooner. JS> I think you will change, just an educated guess, you are far from Close. The BBS is OS2. My workstation is Win95 (soon to be Win95, OS2 and Linux, once I get a 2.5 G drive to put it all on). JS> "neutral", but your interest will lead you to more than MS junkware, JS> unless of course you make money off it. I program a bit, but not enough to make a living, and my programs are DOS based anyway. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00048Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 05:24pm \/To: MACK BARSS (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Mack Barss to Scott Little ] KA> Do you assign drive letters to your hard drive partitions? SL> Indirectly. When partitioning a drive, I keep in mind what drives I SL> want to put things. MB> No Scott... you don't assign drive letters to your hard drive... FDISK MB> does that. Well, DUH. MB> Deciding what partition to put things on (software) can MB> only be done after FDISK has assigned the partitions drive letters. That's why I said INDIRECTLY. If I want to put my databases on drive E, then I will make sure I make the 200 meg partition the second one (D drive is the slave) on the master HDD. Otherwise, either SUBST or NET USE does all the 'assigning' I need. MB> And thats why you use SUBST in Win95, because you can't MAP a local MB> drive like in OS/2 Warp Connect, WinNT, Lantastic, etc. Yes. And I was also complaining about OS2 not having SUBST included. OS2's networking is a little.. um... 'overweight'. I WAS going to run the BBS on 8 meg, but I borrowed 16 from the other computer so now NET USE is fine. KA> So, if it's *that* important to you, it can be done under Warp3 SL> Via two different IFS' that I've seen. One is the EXT2 IFS which SL> includes a drive re-mapping driver - for which the docs are so poor SL> they don't even specify the syntax, and the other is just SUBST for SL> OS2, which is a stand- alone IFS. MB> SUBST is not a IFS... it is a command and it uses the file system that MB> you have (ie FAT, VFAT, etc). You aren't reading, as usual. Read line number 1. Doesn't that suggest I am inquiring about SUBST under OS2? SUBST under OS2 is via an IFS. The SUBST that comes with it is DOS only, and does not work for the rest of OS2. The IFS one works globally, covering all of OS2 and all DOS sessions. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848)