--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00019Date: 04/27/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 01:07pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Jack, JS>Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> JS>.QF> Now IBM gave up on trying to beat Windows at their own game by JS>.QF> trying to run their programs. Now they can't run the latest JS>.QF> new Windows software anymore. JS> JS>JS>Actually, OS/2 can run most Windows software, but Windows JS>JS>can't run any OS/2 software. JS> JS>QF> For the time being.... But, it will soon be gone. JS> JS>Does MS plan on running OS/2 software? JS> JS>QF> I have an article(Computer Currents) which the man talk about JS>QF> how hard it is to find 16 bits apps. Do you want the web JS>QF> address Jack? JS> JS>Nope! Scared of the truth eh? JS> JS>QF> For all the hypocrites who said they hate Windows JS>QF> should hurry up a buy 16 bit apps software before they are JS>QF> gone forever. JS> JS>I don't run ANY WIN software at home now, and haven't for JS>years. WIN is not even on my system any longer. Why on JS>earth would I run out an buy a bunch of junkware just JS>because WIN will no longer run it? Just only you and a few people think that way. GUI is better than text mode. JS>OS/2 software to do any computing task, at least I've not JS>been stumped yet with what I do with a computer. I always know what to do. JS>OS/2 can handle ANY kind of app. It is a powerful, stable and flexable S. JS> JS>QF> He have to use Windows. OS/2 need to run JS>QF> big time programs if they want to be known as a true power JS>QF> user. They don't sale native apps on store shelves. JS> JS>Your kidding, right? I tell it like it is....... JS>QF> You run your text mode/Dos apps and I run my great GUI apps. JS> JS>You run your gui crap, and I'll run my great text mode apps. You run your crapy text mode apps and I run my god O mighty GUI apps. JS>.QF> They just don't give the right kind of support for their JS>.QF> customers. JS> JS>JS>What's the "right kind of support?" Selling tons of JS>JS>junkware that needs upgraded every 6 months because it JS>JS>never really does what needs done quite right? Your opinion JS>JS>that does the same stuff as WIN crapola does, but the JS>JS>basics ain't there in WIN, so what good is an OS that you JS>JS>can't work with. Your opinion JS>QF> I have plenty of commercial softwares that can blow yours JS>QF> text mode apps aka Dos out of the waters. JS> JS>I'll be glad to compare your editor with mine, or your file manager with JS>mine. JS>Boxer for OS/2 and OS/2 Commander, both OS/2 and both shareware. Oh really Jack..... Win have Boxer, Sedit aka Qedit. JS>QF> My commercial softwares can to do more than your shareware JS>QF> softwares. Tell me one word Processor that can out beat JS>QF> Word97. I know your text mode word processor can't beat JS>QF> word97 period. JS> JS>Boxer for OS/2 makes your GUI pig editor look like junk. I JS>don't do desktop publishing, so you'll have to talk about JS>things I use if you want my opinion. JS>My kids use WP for their school papers, it does a 100x more JS>things than they need or want. In your dreams JS>QF> Tell me one OS/2 software that can out beat JS>QF> Word Perfect Suite 7 out of the waters. There are none. JS>QF> Text mode apps don't stand a chance. JS> JS>I never used WP suite, never used Word Pro or Describe or JS>any other OS/2 word processor. I don't publish a paper or JS>a magizine, what on earth would I need all that crap just JS>to write a letter? I write a letter every 3-4 years, I JS>sure don't need a 100 meg app for that. Your personal opinion JS>Windows folks can't take a look at OS/2, they don't even JS>know how to install WIN, they have to use what comes on JS>their PC. WIN comes installed, thats what they use, thats JS>ALL they know. It's called "ignorance" Wrong Jack. People can install whatever OS they want. JS>QF> Instead, IBM is crying the blues because they can't lock on JS>QF> target on the fast moving Windows Win32s 1.XX apps. JS> JS>IBM is making tons of money, they really don't care what JS>software they sell you. Then, what are you screaming about Windows folks this and Windows folks that for not running OS/2. JS> JS>QF> Now I know why some OS/2 folks are jumping ships to the JS>QF> WinNT.......so they can take avantage of running advance JS>QF> softwares. JS> JS>Far more people jump from WIN to OS/2 than from OS/2 to JS>WIN. WIN is a lousy OS, if people must run it because JS>there is no software for OS/2, then 15 million + people JS>must be staring at command lines or ICONS that do nothing. IBM better to start producing softare Jack if they want to bring in more Windows folks. JS>.QF> Don't assume that every users is on the Internet or BBS. JS>.QF> They will not find no native shareware software for their JS>.QF> OS/2. JS> JS>JS>I don't assume much of anything. I know most WIN users are JS>JS>computer illiterate, and I know MS produces the worse OS's JS>JS>made for the PC today. JS>JS>I know this from experience, not from hype. The fact you can buy JS>JS>junkware at Kmart. Only people who are new to computer Jack. JS>QF> Look jack, every users will have their ups and downs with some JS>QF> particlur OS. JS> JS>True, but if the basic technology is bad, then so goes the news. JS> JS>QF> BTW, Why are you using the Windows NT 3.51 with a windows JS>QF> 3.1 interface? JS> JS>What are you talking about? *I* don't use NT, this was JS>installed by professionals at a public library with JS>windfall taxpayer funds. If high payed professionals can't JS>get it to work well, then I assume it's junk, and since 15 JS>years of personal experience with MS junkware shows the JS>same problems I see with the newest MS incarnations JS>installed by professionals, why would I think twice about JS>wasting my time with yet more MS junk? Makes no sense to JS>me. Your opinion JS>QF> You should be using NT 4.0 with a Win95 JS>QF> interface. You should be up to date.................not JS>QF> going back to the stone age. JS> JS>The "stone age" of networking computers was far in advance JS>of NT today. NT is not a patch on the a** of UNIX, and JS>likely never will be. MS NT is GUI crap, a toy resource JS>pig with little going for it other than hype. You the one who is still using Text mode aka DOS. Your opinion JS>If I were religious, I'd say UNIX may have been inspired by JS>God himself, hard to imagine mere man designing something JS>that close to perfection. Consider C was developed to make JS>it easier to WRITE UNIX, these guys were good, not soap JS>salesmen and hype artists. Neither MS nor IBM have reached JS>the level of UNIX in 1975, although OS/2 comes closer than JS>any MS product, it still is not close over 20 years later. If you like UNIX so much. Then why are you using OS/2? JS>QF> Not gunna change my mind until IBM get their act together and JS>QF> start producing the same kind of apps for the Mac and Windows. JS>period, like, what color do you want, as long as it's JS>black. You are getting screwed and liking it, to goofy to JS>know a BAD thing when it hits you in the face. Your opinion JS>the lamest OS on earth, and are HAPPY about it. That would JS>be sad if I were your mother perhaps, but since I'm not, JS>it's rather humorous, not sad at all. Your opinion ___ * UniQWK #2003* I'm in a very clever and adorable insane asylum! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00020Date: 04/27/97 From: STEVE STEFFLER Time: 12:43pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Cache Efficiency I care, so I read this mail from Scott Little... SL>> It can be bought with any major upgrade. ie. a large HDD or SL>> motherboard. ss>> Well, more power to ya then. At least, more than you had ss>> before, but not as much as you COULD have... :) SL> And this contributes to the debate in what way? About as much as your reply to it did. EOT. steve@gen.lcrnet.org * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3755 --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: Portable Hole (1:342/52.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00021Date: 04/27/97 From: STEVE STEFFLER Time: 12:44pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? I care, so I read this mail from Scott Little... ss>> untainted by a Microsoft logo. SL> Thats the type of comment that makes me hate OS2 bigots SL> automatically Why take my Anti-MS viewpoint out on them? ss>> applications written under DOS 6. As a matter of fact, ss>> Windows 3.1 is even capable of running some Win32 software, ss>> providing the right drivers are installed. What's your point again? SL> Win3.x does not run ANY Win32 applications AT ALL. Win3.x runs SL> Win32s apps, which is an extension. Are they not considered one type of Win32 application? If not, I stand corrected. steve@gen.lcrnet.org * http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3755 --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: Portable Hole (1:342/52.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00022Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 03:03pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? [ Quoting David Bowerman to Scott Little ] SL> platform specific code. MUCH more than was ever intended. The whole SL> concept of Java went bust. DB> Care to give an example of platform specific code? I don't code Java DB> Near as I can tell, there is very little plaform specific Java code and DB> that amount is shrinking -- check the documentation for the 1.1 SDK for DB> instance. The interpreter/JIT compiler code is platform specific but the DB> Java code itself is not. I'm going on an article/interview I read. Basically they found out that Java can't do what platform specific code does, and therefore extra bits have been/are being added to compensate. The original Java design still remains intact for the Java CPU. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00023Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 03:05pm \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Keith Douglas to Scott Little ] SL> Hell no. The software situation with a Mac is a hundred SL> times worse than> with OS2. Same deal with the hardware. KD> You honestly think that there is more OS/2 software than Mac OS KD> software? By 100 times? As the teamsters so often remind me, OS2 runs OS2, DOS, REXX and old Win16 apps. While the Mac can emulate DOS/WIN, it doesn't do it nearly as good as OS2 (and that dual 64k/Intel CPU machine is cheating and not counted). KD> I'll be charitable and let you just defend the first question. KD> As for hardware, what do you mean? I would have to go into the city to get Mac hardware (at least, anything more than mice, printers and other common items), or order it via mail/WWW. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00024Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:12pm \/To: KENNETH ABRAMS (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? [ Quoting KENNETH ABRAMS to SCOTT LITTLE ] SL> I said Java is falling apart. And it is. Already there is a LOT of SL> platform specific code. MUCH more than was ever intended. The whole KA> The only thing platform specific in Java I've heard about is coming KA> from Microsoft. MS don't have anything to do with Java. They have ActiveX. KA> cooperate with the other members of your industry in creating a common KA> standard The problem with the 'common standard' is that the CPUs are NOT standard. ava is a RISC based language. ActiveX is a CISC based language. Since the entire 80x86 family is CISC, Java just can't compete with anything written specifically for it. To compensate, Java had to inherit a few extra bits in the code, and in the compiler, to make a program that runs fast(ish). KA Instead, keep your customers locked into your own proprietary approach. Like SUN! Sun released the basic Java to everyone, so they could all break out the champaign and get p.... ahem anyway, after that, they release their JavaCPU. Guess what Java runs best on? Guess what it doesn't run best on (hint: read the bit about RISC/CISC again)? SL> Biased as usual. At least you're consistant. KA> No more so than you, Scott. How many OS' you running over there? I run Win95 and OS2, that is NOT biased, that is realistic. The OS2 runs the BBS, and thats all. The Win95 machine is the one I work on because it runs everything I need, and runs all the new apps I want to test/review. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00025Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 03:14pm \/To: DAVE RAYMOND (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? [ Quoting Dave Raymond to Scott Little ] SL> Win95 multitasks pre-emptivly, end of story. If you are running Win16 SL> apps, they are all put in the one session, where they go about their DR> You are incorrect. We've had this discussion before. You are Read the docs again. eg. One DOS box, 5 Win16 apps. DOS box is pre-empt. with the ONE Win16 session. AFAIK, Win16 and Win32 go in the one session, but DOS boxes are totally separate. DR> describing the way that OS/2 and NT work. Win95 does NOT run DR> a session in which all Win16 apps are held. OS2/WinNT have separate sessions for EACH. Win95 shoves them all in the one boat. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00026Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 03:19pm \/To: DENIS TONN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? [ Quoting Denis Tonn to Scott Little ] DT> way". I do try and follow the Java scene, and would be interested in DT> your analysis of why it is "falling apart". Java is designed for RISC. The 8006 is CISC. A very condensed version of the article(s). Original Java is still intact, which runs on the Java CPU, but to take advantage of other CPUs, the code and compilers had to change. SL> Urm, it has never been called Win97. It remains under it's codename ntil SL> MS think they are good and ready to release it. DT> The codename is NOT "Win97" Quote me where I said it was. You misread me. DT> "Those that refuse to learn from history are destined to repeat it." And the alternative is what? OS/2! HAHAHAHA. Sure, it's fine for mundane work, but for anything else it's useless (at least for now). Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00027Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 07:16pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hell [ Quoting David Bowerman to Scott Little ] SL> Wrong again, Baustard. It can be sold with any major KD> We don't insult people in here, Scott. I should punt you for this.. SL> [Zone gate never works, so I'll reply here] DB> Routed netmail seems to have worked on your message to me. See via DB> lines following: Weird. Maybe Dave just didn't want to reply before? DB> Scotty, while it might be considered a trifle patronizing, is hardly DB> at the level of insult of modifying Justin's name in the fashion that DB> you have done. I guess. "Scotty" doesn't annoy me, it's just I don't like him trying to win by making me look like an insignificant child, which in itself is a childish tactic. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4X00028Date: 04/27/97 From: SCOTT LITTLE Time: 03:25pm \/To: DAVID BOWERMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hell [ Quoting David Bowerman to Scott Little ] DB> university/college, you'd be a freshman in your first year. For the OIC. I doubt I'll be going to Uni unless I really have to. I'd like to do Computer Science, but it'd take up 4 years of my life when I could be earning a full-time wage. I really don't know why any of this matters to this debate. Since when does age matter? If someone can't come up with a better argument that "aw, you're just a snot nose little kid, what would you know" it's a pretty sad picture. Regards, - Scott [ admin@cyberia.asstdc.com.au | www.asstdc.com.au/~cyberia ] --- FMail/2 1.22 * Origin: Cyberia <61-2-9534-1702> Internet, Fidonet, Battlenet.. 3:712/848)