--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4R00007Date: 04/21/97 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 12:35am \/To: JUSTIN BAUSTERT (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hell SL>> One ~40 computer network at a certain educational institute I SL>> happen to know of seems to be running just great. JB> And what are they doing on these systems, exactly? Surfing the net? Scott betrays himself with this message: he's a miserable little web surfer in college, probably a freshman. This is the extent of his experience, and this explains completely why he makes about as much sense as Bill Wolff. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4R00008Date: 04/21/97 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 12:27am \/To: FRANK SEXTON (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? QF>> To bad they won't make a OS/2 version of Internet QF>> Explorer 4.0 and Netscape 4.0. FS> Netscape has gone on record stating that they WILL be FS> rolling out a Netscape 4.0 version for OS/2. Communicator for OS/2 is also under development. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4R00009Date: 04/21/97 From: JEFF DUNLOP Time: 12:30am \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 2 times) Subj: Your *precious* NT QF>> I'm sure any hacker in the world can hack OS/2 Network. You're speaking from pure ignorance. Warp Server is secure. The reason that S is having such fits with their security is that they don't have 30+ years experience writing network and systems software, and IT SHOWS. Jeff --- GoldED/2 2.42.G0615 * Origin: DB/Soft Online - Sacramento, CA (916)927-2349 (1:203/16) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00000Date: 04/21/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:17am \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS>QF> Remember, I'm running NT instead of Win95. NT is design for JS>QF> power users and it much stable, true 32 bit OS, true JS>QF> muilti-tasking........OS..better than Win95. JS>NT may be better than WIN95, but designed for power users, JS>I think not. It is a gui network system that is QF> That is your bias opinion. Who's opinion did you expect I give? QF> I can easily say the same thing about OS/2 by saying "Is it QF> designed for power users, I think not". You just gave me your opinion on NT, I gave you mine back. Tit for Tat. JS>you can use DOS 2.1 if you want. Is it the best, hell no, JS>it's the worst in the area it's designed to serve. QF> In your dreams...... Name me a worse OS designed for networking than NT? NT is a resource pig, has no built in script language, security sucks, backward compatibility sucks, it works poorly, I hear, once more than 50 users are accessing it, it is slow compared to all the other popular Network OS, has no multi-user capability, ala UNIX, makes poor use of multi-processor systems and who knows what else. What OS desigend for networking is worse? UNIX, 20 years ago had it beat. QF> So, you be running out of date apps while every one else be QF> running advance softwares. If you thing GUI interfaces that do nothing but take up resources, hid the user from what is actually going on, are much harder to learn and so on is "advanced software" you are confusing the meaning of advanced with "new hype designed to suck up your money for no particular reason" QF> If you hate GUI so much, then why are you running OS/2. You QF> should be running DOS instead. OS/2 is a GUI OS if you have QF> not notice yet. Damn, I haven't noticed. In fact, I think you are wrong. OS/2 has a GUI shell, same as DOS does, except its called PMShell.exe rather than WIN.COM. The differences are dramatic in the two shells, but OS/2 is text based with full GUI capability available. Almost everthing I do is text based, with the exception that I use the great OS/2 capacity to display numerous sessions on the screen at the same time, a function of its superb graphical abilities. JS>QF> If this true, then it is worth running Win98. JS>There is no WIN98, you are dreaming. QF> That your wishful thinking on your part. Of course Windows QF> 98 is not out. I'm talking a *public feature release* of QF> the new Windows. Where can the "public" get this new release? I'm certain there are millions of dis-satisfied WIN95 users that would love to get their hands on yet another piece of MS crap that is supposed to work, but based on history, probably will not. JS>QF> Even the author of KBBS who is a big time OS/2 user himself JS>QF> have said it is stable and beat Win95 by 30% in muilti-tasking. JS>QF> Yes it was a beta Win98 OS. JS>prefere to rely on 15 years of first hand experience with JS>MS products, and I'll believe it when I see it. QF> If it come true..... You still have a bias views against M.S QF> no matter what the out come is. Experience is a hard teacher. JS>I'm reasonably sure I won't like anything MS has to offer, JS>they are lost in a mire of poor programing and or design in JS>a lame GUI world. QF> That is your opinion along with the OS/2 users folks. It's my opinion of course, but I didn't read about it in some hyped up RAG, I experienced it over the last 15 or so years. QF> Whatever it work great for you. Everything works for me, DOS, DOS/WIN, DOS/DV, OS/2, OS2/DOS, OS2/DOS/WIN, and UNIX has all worked for me as designed, I just don't like poorly designed OS's, and all those based on DOS stink, and MS has made few contributions to the computing world over the past 15 years, and what little the've done, is a hoax, a blight on the computing world, and has held back progress to a dizzying degree. QF> Then run it. I'm sure the Windows folks feel the same way QF> toward IBM also. Most Windows forks have no idea how a system should work, they have experience in ONLY what came pre-installed on their machine. Even after years of use, they still have learned little about computing, or they would have switched to something good a years ago. When I talk to WIN people, even after years of experience, it is striking how little they know about the very basics of computing. How they feel about IBM is of little interest to me. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00001Date: 04/21/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:05am \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: QF> Greetings, Jack. You were talking to Quenn Finch QF> about "Which is the best?" on Fri 18 Apr 1997 JS> The voice thing would be neat once or twice a year, but I can call any JS> one in the US free on the phone now, and I almost never do, and the JS> very few people I call long distance are not about to buy a computer, JS> get on the internet just so they can chat with me. QF> Onlive Traveler is just for fun. Just like people have fun QF> when they send a messages to people on Fido echo. It is a QF> way to meet new people online...... I suppose. QF> Onlive Traveler is more than just a online chat. You can QF> chat with a group of people at the same time. Neat, but I don't want to chat for fun. QF> In the VRML 3D world. I can see people avatars such as animals, QF> humans, creatures..... When they talk, their lips moves when I have a dog, a cat, and two kids, their lips all move, even the cats. You should hear my dog bark, perhaps I can set up an IRC for you and him to play with? QF> I can move around, fly up in the air, move any direction I QF> want. Very nice. QF> Plus, I can go to any rooms by going into space warp to reach QF> my destination. The word "WARP" I like, the "space" thing reminds me of too many WIN users I've "chatted with":-) QF> Yes, I can setup my private chat room to keep out unwanted QF> people. Can you screen out DOS/WIN people? They are the lousiest people to "chat" with. There are so many of them on-line now, I quit answering my BBS chat almost completly as a total waste of my time, and not much fun. I would enjoy seeing them "fly up in the air" though... QF> By the way, I log on as a cat(I color it to make it look QF> like Sox The Cat). Yes, I have talk to people from QF> different country such as Japan. Cute, my cat's name is Oakie, don't know why. He colored white, and stone deaf, so you can't chat with him, sorry. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00002Date: 04/21/97 From: LAWRENCE LUCIER Time: 09:05am \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Miscellanious Scott Little @ 3:712/848 wrote on 04-16-97 19:05 about *Miscellanious* SL> My original message described how the current goes out along one SL> line, Your original word was signal not current. --- Sqed/32 1.13b2/r15155 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS - (250) 748-3408 v32b v42b XA CM (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00003Date: 04/21/97 From: LAWRENCE LUCIER Time: 09:30am \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Scott Little @ 3:712/848 wrote on 04-16-97 16:43 about *Which is the best?* SL> My latest problem is assigning a letter to a CDROM, rather than have OS2 do everything for SL> me. Seems v3 can't do that. I have to resort to using a ext2 IFS to work around the problem. Fixpack #26.......... SL> Yep, "OS2 lets me work the way I want". As with any OS, it's hard to cover all bases for human error..........or someone who would rather whine than take the time to do a little research and ignore good advice from people who are much more knowledgable about a subject. Where do you fit in, Scott? --- Sqed/32 1.13b2/r15155 * Origin: T-Shirts 'N Genes BBS - (250) 748-3408 v32b v42b XA CM (1:340/204) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00004Date: 04/22/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 06:26am \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Jack, JS>Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS>Name me a worse OS designed for networking than NT? NT is a resource pig, JS>has no built in script language, security sucks, backward JS>compatibility sucks, it works poorly, I hear, once more JS>than 50 users are accessing it, it is slow compared to all JS>the other popular Network OS, has no multi-user capability, JS>ala UNIX, makes poor use of multi-processor systems and who JS>knows what else. Your opinion JS>If you thing GUI interfaces that do nothing but take up resources, hid the JS>user from what is actually going on, are much harder to JS>learn and so on is "advanced software" you are confusing JS>the meaning of advanced with "new hype designed to suck up JS>your money for no particular reason" Your opinion JS>QF> If you hate GUI so much, then why are you running OS/2. You JS>QF> should be running DOS instead. OS/2 is a GUI OS if you have JS>QF> not notice yet. JS> JS>Damn, I haven't noticed. In fact, I think you are wrong. JS>OS/2 has a GUI shell, same as DOS does, except its called JS>PMShell.exe rather than WIN.COM. JS>The differences are dramatic in the two shells, but OS/2 is JS>text based with full GUI capability available. Almost JS>everthing I do is text based, with the exception that I use JS>the great OS/2 capacity to display numerous sessions on the JS>screen at the same time, a function of its superb graphical JS>abilities. Wow really. I have some text mode apps for NT. JS>QF> That your wishful thinking on your part. Of course Windows JS>QF> 98 is not out. I'm talking a *public feature release* of JS>QF> the new Windows. JS> JS>Where can the "public" get this new release? I'm certain there are millions JS>of dis-satisfied WIN95 users that would love to get their JS>hands on yet another piece of MS crap that is supposed to JS>work, but based on history, probably will not. Look when IBM turn their back on ya saying that they will no longer support home users. Now IBM gave up on trying to beat Windows at their own game by trying to run their programs. Now they can't run the latest new Windows software anymore. They don't sale native apps on store shelves. They just don't give the right kind of support for their customers. It not worth buying OS/2 period. Only time OS/2 folks need to run OS/2 is when they planing on running a BBS on a low end machines or just want to run a low end shareware software. Can OS/2 run my Onlive Traveler? Hell no. IF it did, I be running it right now. Only the beta tester have it Jack. JS>Everything works for me, DOS, DOS/WIN, DOS/DV, OS/2, OS2/DOS, OS2/DOS/WIN, JS>and UNIX has all worked for me as designed, I just don't You should be running Unix since you like to run things in black and white. JS>like poorly designed OS's, and all those based on DOS JS>stink, and MS has made few contributions to the computing JS>world over the past 15 years, and what little the've done, JS>is a hoax, a blight on the computing world, and has held JS>back progress to a dizzying degree. Your bias opinion. JS>QF> Then run it. I'm sure the Windows folks feel the same way JS>QF> toward IBM also. JS> JS>Most Windows forks have no idea how a system should work, JS>they have experience in ONLY what came pre-installed on JS>their machine. Even after years of use, they still have JS>learned little about computing, or they would have switched JS>to something good a years ago. When I talk to WIN people, JS>even after years of experience, it is striking how little JS>they know about the very basics of computing. How they JS>feel about IBM is of little interest to me. You being so naive. You know full well that novice people tend buy an OS that have great support. Specially when they can get it at stores shelves that carries the lastest Win32s 135 apps. We all know that Win32s 125 and 16 bit apps are going away very slowing. Won't be so much of an OS/2 support after that. Don't assume that every users is on the Internet or BBS. They will not find no native shareware software for their OS/2. ___ * UniQWK #2003* Hello, everybody, I'm a human! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00005Date: 04/22/97 From: FRANK SEXTON Time: 05:45am \/To: JEFF DUNLOP (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? -=> /* Quoting Jeff Dunlop to Frank Sexton */ <=- QF>> To bad they won't make a OS/2 version of Internet QF>> Explorer 4.0 and Netscape 4.0. FS> Netscape has gone on record stating that they WILL be FS> rolling out a Netscape 4.0 version for OS/2. JD> Communicator for OS/2 is also under development. That *is* version 4.0 AFAIK. -Frank (fsexton@xpert.net - http://www.concentric.net/~fsexton) --- Blue Wave/OS2 v2.30 * Origin: Wildcard BBS,Thornton,CO HST/V34+ +1-303-252-0491 (1:104/725) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4S00006Date: 04/21/97 From: KENNETH ABRAMS Time: 07:25pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? SL> You mean like warp3 doesn't even let you choose your own CDROM drive SL> letter? Gee, Scott, Windows won't let me choose the drive letter I want for my hard drive partitions. Should I whine and complain about this as if it were actually a problem? Won't let me choose a letter for my floppy drives, either. Guess Windows really is a piece of junk. This is a non-problem. The only reason I've yet encountered for wanting to do this is to maintain consistent drive lettering when booting different OS's and using incompatible file systems. Generally, we're talking about having HPFS drives and booting native DOS. Since the kludge that lets DOS see CD's in the first place already lets you assign a letter, there is no problem. Make DOS match OS/2. Yeah, some people I'm sure will pipe up to say that their DOS setup was present before they ever got OS/2 so they'd have to reinstall all their CD based DOS/Win apps again if they do it that way and that's just to much like work, and whine, whine, whine.... To which I point out that a change in operating systems, particularly if it includes adding file systems foreign to one of the os's, is a pretty big deal and you *should* be expecting to do some work reconfiguring the system. SL> And to make matters worse, it doesn't even come with such a basic co SL> as SUBST to work around it. Don't need a kludge to work around a non-problem. kabrams@erols.com * RM 1.3 03106 * --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: BBS Networks @ bbsnets.com 301-863-5089 (1:2612/10)