--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00020Date: 04/19/97 From: MACK BARSS Time: 06:17pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hel Scott Little wrote in a message to Gord McFee: SL>The only reason HPFS is less likely to get a virus is because the SL>majority of computers are running FAT system, so most viruses are SL>designed to infect FAT partitions (if at all). GM> I don't think you will find the technical explanations agree with GM> that. My recollection is that the way in which HPFS is constructed is GM> the main reason. SL> That's kind of what I was implying. Most virii expect to be on FAT, SL> and so expect certain things to be incertain places. Under HPFS, SL> they aren't (which can lead to different problems too). No ...most virii expect to be running on a DOS (MS/PC/DR) system. => Mack <= --- timEd/2 1.10 * Origin: Modem Connections/2 (613) 820-2594 - Nepean, Ont. (1:163/545) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00021Date: 04/19/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 08:02am \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 2 times) Subj: To Linux or not to Linux, that's the que08:02:3404/19/97 Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> KD> What does that mean? What resource? Unavailable? JS> I reckon it means ls is not available for you to use on that JS> directory at the moment. KD> It doesn't say that. KD> (whether it means that or not, I don't know) It said it, I think it meant it:-) OK, I'll give you that many of the error messages are arcane, but often that is how it must be, as many things can cause the same error and the system has no way of knowing what the exact situation is. This is not unique to Unix, however. JS> It's not hidden however, all the commands are knowable and JS> most of them are mnemonic and very descriptive. The fact KD> 'ls'? ls is perfect for list. KD> 'vi'? VIdeo, works for me. Your supposed to be capable of remembering that vi stands for VIdeoEditor rather than type a dozen letters. Are you a Cobol programer or something?:-) KD> the few good ones are KD> 'mail' KD> and KD> 'whoami' I like the two you listed better, but I like them all. ls, vi, cd, cut, find, type, file, df, rcopy, rcmd, uname, uuname, grep, fgrep, lstat, lp, mkdir, rm, cp, move, pg, sh, wc, man, print, diff, paste, test, pwd, env, echo machid, and on and on. All are easy to remember and short and sweet. JS> commands, regardless of shell, so what you call "annoying", JS> I call wonderful. KD> oh, sure, you can cd and ls, but so? You can do damn near anything, and nothing is "arcane", the meanings and uses are freely available and all (most) make sense. If you want to Get a Regular ExPression - its GREP, if you want Fast GREP, its FGREP, see the ENViroment- ENV, MACHine ID, MACHID, copy a file - CP, PaGe -PG, Line Printer - LP, DIFFerence between two files, you guessed it - DIFF. This is simple stuff and hardly arcane. KD> I was trying to set my real name field for use with IRC II. KD> [shudder] Whats a "real name field"? and whats it got to do with UNIX? JS> Where is spacing so critical? Certainly not from the JS> command line? KD> Certainly from the commandline. consider: KD> rm -rf /directory KD> and KD> rm -rf / directory Implicit null arguments are stripped (those with no value). Your example precludes the fact that a character after a "/" must be matched explicitly. Consider: rm file and rm file Spacing is only critical when it makes sense for it to be critical. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00022Date: 04/19/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 09:19am \/To: KEITH DOUGLAS (Read 2 times) Subj: Which Is The Best? Keith Douglas wrote in a message to Kenneth Abrams: KA> However you want it. That's flexible. I even know one Mac KA> owner that has stated, several times, that one of the things he KA> didn't like about OS/2 was that there were so many different KA> ways to do the same KD> There's a point where more choices to do something becomes a KD> hinderance - keeping track of differences between things KD> becomes harder. When there are many choices, one does not have to make or even know them all. When their are no choices, your sunk if you wish to make one different from one selected for you. This is never a hinderence unless you are ignorant. This is a common reason DOS/WIN people are considered ignorant, or stupid. UNIX is a prime example of (almost) total flexability. I've been using it for years, and have yet to run into a situation that it couldn't handle. When I think of something I want to do, A little research and I find it can easily be done. This is completly different than DOS/WIN, where after two months of use by a computer illiterate, it's limitations should start smacking you in the face. If you still like DOS/WIN after two months, you are a user, not a power user, not a hobbiest, just a user not interested in computing. Unix, and to a lessor extent, OS/2 are OS that power users and above like to use for their flexability and stability. DOS/WIN and perhaps MAC OS's are not much fun for most in that area. Users that don't know much and are just interested in running an app or two, and don't really care what OS they use, and in fact could use ANY OS and not know whats going on as long as someone else set it up and maintains it. The people I work with, all computer illiterates, are buying computers now, and of course all have DOS/WIN95, a good choice because it comes installed. It's absolutly SCARY what these people are doing, and how screwed up they get their system in just a day or two. They are sending entire computers back for refunds because they screwed up a driver and can't get it to work. They are driving the tech's at the retailers nutz with stupid problems. There is not one of them I would suggest OS/2 or unix too, primarily because after they totally screwed it up, I'd have to talk to them about it. Now, I just say I don't know nuthin about WIN95, call your service rep. The problems with WIN95 are unbelievable... out of memory on 16 meg machines, video is screwed up, out of disk space on a new 1.2 gig HD, cursor won't move, app ran yesterday, now it won't do anything... I KNOW WIN95 is a piece of junk, but really, even it can't be all that bad, these people are NOT computer people, and are in way over their head, even with something as INFLEXABLE and un"arcane" as DOS/WIN. Perhaps what is needed is just a funky terminal hooked up to a server somewhere that these folks can't screw up, can make few choices and so on. In fact, I'm sure thats the only answer for most in a world of complexity and logic. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00023Date: 04/19/97 From: JACK STEIN Time: 10:16am \/To: QUENN FINCH (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: js>-> So then, Quenton has no reason to run WIN, as OS/2 has total js>-> capability to run the OS/2 application, ZOC. WIN95 I'm rather js>-> certain will not run the OS/2 version of ZOC, so using his logic, js>-> WIN95 is not worth running. js>-> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ QF> Remember, I'm running NT instead of Win95. NT is design for QF> power users and it much stable, true 32 bit OS, true QF> muilti-tasking........OS..better than Win95. NT may be better than WIN95, but designed for power users, I think not. It is a gui network system that is lightweight, resource heavy and has more value than DOS/WIN95, but isn't up to the task it was designed for. Does it work, sure, so did DOS 2.1, can you use it, sure, you can use DOS 2.1 if you want. Is it the best, hell no, it's the worst in the area it's designed to serve. QF> in Windows. Yes, I do run shareware programs if they don't QF> sell that kind of program in retail stores. To each their own I reckon. I don't waste money on stuff that is available as freeware or shareware. All the graphical crap you listed couldn't be given to me for free, I wouldn't take it. I don't use graphical freeware or shareware stuff much either. QF> BTW, I did read on the NET from various magazine editor who QF> have said that Win98 is stable than Win95. You have read from many users, from knowledgable and experienced to experts telling you, and explaining why OS/2, is more stable than WIN95, who gives a damn what some lame writer in a rag says, they are mostly lost in space. Why you would bother reading about a non-existant OS and taking anyones word that a beta version of an OS from a company that has NEVER produced a good OS as perhaps being good years in the future is beyond comprehension. QF> If this true, then it is worth running Win98. There is no WIN98, you are dreaming. QF> Even the author of KBBS who is a big time OS/2 user himself QF> have said it is stable and beat Win95 by 30% in muilti-tasking. QF> Yes it was a beta Win98 OS. If he is indeed a "BIG TIME" OS/2 user, then I would *tend* to believe him more so than some WIN goofball. On the other hand, I prefere to rely on 15 years of first hand experience with MS products, and I'll believe it when I see it. I'm reasonably sure I won't like anything MS has to offer, they are lost in a mire of poor programing and or design in a lame GUI world. Jack --- timEd/2-B11 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00024Date: 04/18/97 From: ROBERT WHITE Time: 09:56pm \/To: ALBERT ALCOCEBA (Read 2 times) Subj: Miscellanious Albert, In Albert Alcoceba's message to Robert White on <17 Apr 97>, Albert Alcoceba said: RW>> Ohh okay, so Scott and I need an education in Network Terminators RW>> now do do we? Ooooo this is really hard stuff.. And if the text RW>> of my original message shows this would you care to quote it? RW>> That is if you aren't just talking through your ass.. RW>> Really, what evidence do you have to support this? Quote me! Come RW>> on! AA> ============================== Quoting RW to SL =============== SL>> I originally said that the signal goes out in a loop. Along one, SL>> into the terminator, and back the other way along the other (this SL>> was in RW>> Correct. AA> R SL>> relation to an argument about whether or not a network connection SL>> with SL>> stop with a missing terminator). Someone said that's wrong, and SL>> the RW>> You were exactly right the first time! In order for a circut to RW>> work there MUST be two separate mediums in which the a signal can RW>> travel ( in regards to CO-AX ). All ends of the network MUST be RW>> terminated one way or the other, you cant just forget to put a RW>> terminator on one end. SL>> resister is there to stop the signal going back (?!?). This is SL>> where I RW>> Nope, this is also wrong, if i were you i wouldnt be taking RW>> anymore advice about networks from the original poster of the RW>> thread. Ohh and resistors do not stop the back flow of current, RW>> they simply hinder the flow of the electrons. I think you must be RW>> getting your resistors and diodes mixed up! SL>> don't follow. If the signal doesn't return to the source, I fail SL>> to see where the closed circuit is. RW>> I dont see how anyone would! This statment is completley illogical RW>> I encourage the original message poster to perhaps pick up any RW>> basic book of electronics and read the section on continuity! AA> ======================== END QUOTE ===================== AA> I rest my case. What are you talking about, you rest your case??!? I was not arguing with Scott!! I was backing up what he originally thought! I fail to see where exactly you case is. Regards, - SHoCK --- FMailX 1.22 * Origin: Terminal Shock -=- 02-9771-1182 -=- (3:712/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00025Date: 04/19/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 01:05pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Microsoft = Security Hell SL> Wrong again, Baustard. It can be sold with any major We don't insult people in here, Scott. I should punt you for this.. --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00026Date: 04/20/97 From: KEITH DOUGLAS Time: 03:41am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: OS-DEBATE RULES 1/2 Hello All! The Moderators of this echo are: Moderator : Dave Raymond - 1:3603/210.12 Co-Moderator: Keith Douglas - 1:167/310 *****RULES***** 1) This conference is dedicated to discussing personal computer systems software such as Operating Systems and Graphical User interfaces. 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Some of our communications with a user may be via netmail and therefore, invisible to YOU. 8a) If you initiate an attack on another user, then you are automatically wrong, because whether your insults are valid or not, the user will feel the need to respond and thus a flame-war gets started. 9) The Moderators reserve the right to add and post any additional rule(s), as they become necessary, or are deemed to be for the good of the echo, by the Moderators, at any time, without notice, even if to apply it/them to a current situation. 10) ANSI is NOT permitted in this echo. 11) Handles are NOT permitted in this echo, except by the Moderators, who may post under the handle of "Moderator", so that there will be no question by users of the echo who do NOT yet know who the Moderators are. 12) Excessive quoting is NOT permitted in this echo. Only quote the relevant portion of the message and only enough to maintain the thought of the thread. 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Keith Douglas (1:167/310) - Co-Moderator FidoNet OS-DEBATE --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: The Chrono Zone (514)363-6298 Lasalle, QC, Canada (1:167/310) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00028Date: 04/20/97 From: DAVID BOWERMAN Time: 12:15pm \/To: SCOTT LITTLE (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Scott Little wrote in a message to Denis Tonn: SL> There are languages out there other than C you know. DT> Sure, I might even know a few of them. Which "free" compiler is your DT> friend using? SL> I don't know (it's a pascal compiler though), and he's not my SL> friend. There are at least two OS/2 Pascal compilers kicking around which he could try. Virtual Pascal and Speed Pascal are both very similar to Borland's Pascal 8 product. There's also the Sibyl visual development environment. Personally, I'm not all that enthused about Pascal. I preferred Leor Zolman's BDS C to Borland's Turbo Pascal back in the CP/M days and have seen little reason to switch to Pascal from C in the intervening years so there may other packages out there that I'm not aware of. Regards, David --- timEd/2 1.10+ * Origin: Frog Hollow -- a scenic backroad off the Infobahn (1:153/290) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 129 OP. SYS DEBATE Ref: E4Q00029Date: 04/20/97 From: QUENN FINCH Time: 03:16pm \/To: JACK STEIN (Read 2 times) Subj: Which is the best? Jack, JS>Quenn Finch wrote in a message to Jack Stein: JS> JS>.>-> So then, Quenton has no reason to run WIN, as OS/2 has total JS>.>-> capability to run the OS/2 application, ZOC. WIN95 I'm rather JS>.>-> certain will not run the OS/2 version of ZOC, so using his logic, JS>.>-> WIN95 is not worth running. JS>.>-> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ JS> JS>QF> Remember, I'm running NT instead of Win95. NT is design for JS>QF> power users and it much stable, true 32 bit OS, true JS>QF> muilti-tasking........OS..better than Win95. JS>NT may be better than WIN95, but designed for power users, JS>I think not. It is a gui network system that is That is your bias opinion. I can easily say the same thing about OS/2 by saying "Is it designed for power users, I think not". JS>you can use DOS 2.1 if you want. Is it the best, hell no, JS>it's the worst in the area it's designed to serve. In your dreams...... JS>To each their own I reckon. I don't waste money on stuff JS>that is available as freeware or shareware. All the JS>graphical crap you listed couldn't be given to me for free, JS>I wouldn't take it. I don't use graphical freeware or JS>shareware stuff much either. So, you be running out of date apps while every one else be running advance softwares. If you hate GUI so much, then why are you running OS/2. You should be running DOS instead. OS/2 is a GUI OS if you have not notice yet. JS>QF> If this true, then it is worth running Win98. JS> JS>There is no WIN98, you are dreaming. That your wishful thinking on your part. Of course Windows 98 is not out. I'm talking a *public feature release* of the new Windows. JS>QF> Even the author of KBBS who is a big time OS/2 user himself JS>QF> have said it is stable and beat Win95 by 30% in muilti-tasking. JS>QF> Yes it was a beta Win98 OS. JS>prefere to rely on 15 years of first hand experience with JS>MS products, and I'll believe it when I see it. If it come true..... You still have a bias views against M.S no matter what the out come is. JS>I'm reasonably sure I won't like anything MS has to offer, JS>they are lost in a mire of poor programing and or design in JS>a lame GUI world. That is your opinion along with the OS/2 users folks. Whatever it work great for you. Then run it. I'm sure the Windows folks feel the same way toward IBM also. ___ * UniQWK #2003* If our behavior is strict, we do not need fun! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000)