--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00005 Date: 07/25/96 From: STEVE HENDERSON Time: 06:29am \/To: DAVE APPEL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: TOW Since Dave Appel yelled this at Steve Henderson, I hollered this in response: -> Why in the hell would someone fire a $5000-plus missile in an attempt -> to take out a few troops? DA> How much is YOUR squad's life worth? If firing a $5000-plus missile DA> saves YOUR life, won't it be worth it? :-) In the first place, it is -was-. In the second place, how many troops are you going to take out with a shaped charge? There is -no- guarantee that the damn thing will even detonate on impact with meat as opposed to metal. You are only being argumentative. -> I -know- the manner and method of deploying the TOW. It is -useless- -> as an anti-personnel weapon. Remember this part? ... Conjunction junction, whats your function? --- FM 1.02g/RA 2.02/FD 2.12 * Origin: -=- The Road Kill Cafe -=- Lenexa, KS -=- (1:280/64) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00006 Date: 07/25/96 From: STEVE HENDERSON Time: 06:33am \/To: DAVE APPEL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: TOW Since Dave Appel yelled this at Steve Henderson, I hollered this in response: -> Hammers are designed to drive nails. Just because they've also been -> used to commit homicide takes nothing from their designed function. DA> Right. But if you are attacked and your life is threatened, and all DA> you got is a hammer, whatcha gonna do? WTF are you going to do, blow your house down because of -one- pesky fly? This -is- what you are advocating. DA> Out in the field what really counts is what it CAN do, not what it was DA> "designed" to do. If a piece of equipment CAN do something that it DA> was not "intended" to do, and if doing it saves the lives of YOUR men, DA> then so be it. The lives of men on your side, and the lives of DA> innocents, are more important than equipment, and even more important DA> than what a book says about your equipment. Again, WTF are you going to do? Use a 155 as a flyswatter? DA> Another example: Explosives were not "intended" to heat the ?-rations DA> in Vietnam, but I know a demolitions man who used plenty of it to heat DA> his and his buddies food. Shit. *I* have done this. What's your point? DA> As the saying goes, "If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid." *My* point is, you don't try to kill flies with a cannon. Sure, it'll do the job, but if you destroy what you are trying to protect, what's the point? ... Oxymoron: Easy to read computer manual. --- FM 1.02g/RA 2.02/FD 2.12 * Origin: -=- The Road Kill Cafe -=- Lenexa, KS -=- (1:280/64) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00007 Date: 07/25/96 From: NOLAN PENNEY Time: 02:01pm \/To: STEVE GUNHOUSE (Read 1 times) Subj: Plastic SG>Like I said before, the operative term is "not so as I could use it". SG>There are certain tools I don't have, and my household chemicals are SG>also limited. SG>I do know enough chemistry that I could buy stuff at the grocery SG>store which I think I could whip up into something - but I'm not SG>going to. And likewise, go to the hardware store and pick up some SG>tools to be able to put it in a container of some appropriate sort - SG>but again, why? Though I've never proven I could, I also don't need SG>to prove it. Come on Steve, you've not only got it, but got it in a manner you can use it. Starting with your guns ammo. No special tools needed, just a rock. Same with your plumbing and cleaning supplies. Oh you might not be able to use the sink once you're done making a pipebomb, but you *can* make it, with the stuff in your house, readily at hand. And if you really want to keep the sink, we can take a quick look in the fridge at some of your tupperware and such, which can give a really nice bang. You've also got lots of the tools, even if you really didn't own any tools. Rocks, sticks, vines. Nice tools those, bet I can find some on your property. But then, I'm not going to really believe you don't own a single hammer in your house either. As well a wrench or drill. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if I were to do a bomb making equipment inspection on your house I would be able to come away with several hundred pounds of bomb making equipment. Proof enough to prosecute you if you made the mistake of being in the Viper milita group. --- * CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: The GreyHawk BBS Columbia, MD 410-720-5083 USR V.34 (1:261/1116) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00008 Date: 07/26/96 From: NOLAN PENNEY Time: 09:13am \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: nra ML> ML> NP> Since the President cannot, absolutely, unequivocally, can not ML> NP> write legislation. That is Congress only. The worse a rabid ML> You forget the power of the "Executive Order", also the ability to ML>tell the various groups (FBI, BATF) what laws to lean on and which ML>to let slide. No, I have not forgotten that. But it was Congress that gave those laws, and can remove those laws. *That* is far more important. --- * CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: The GreyHawk BBS Columbia, MD 410-720-5083 USR V.34 (1:261/1116) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00009 Date: 07/26/96 From: NOLAN PENNEY Time: 09:24am \/To: JOHN PERZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Nra JP>-> JP>If true, I find that last one **REAL** curious. What kind of JP>-> JP>REAL libertarian doesn't own guns? JP>-> One who doesn't want to. JP>-> That's about as deranged a question as asking what sort of *real* JP>-> pro- choicer doesn't have a few abortions. JP>I don't think thats a good analogy, Nolan. Being Pro-Choice is about JP>the Freedom to choose to have an abortion or the Freedom to choose to JP>have a child. And being pro-2nd amendment is about the right to bear arms, not the obligation to own a gun. JP>The interesting question is: **WHY** doesn't he want to own a gun? Perhaps because he doesn't want to? JP>Does he think he doesn't need one because the police will protect JP>him? Or perhaps he simply doesn't want one? JP>Is he a pacifist, who believes it is more ethical to allow someone JP>else to kill him rather than kill another human being himself? Perhaps. Although considering the fire of his words, I rather doubt it. JP>Neither of those possibilities say anything good about his judgement. Or you if this is truly the only reasons you can come up with for not owning a gun. JP>If he truly understands that the 2nd Ammendment *AIN'T** about JP>and hunting target shooting, that it's intended to keep the JP>and government in line, he chooses NOT to own a gun himself, what JP>does that say, Nolan? That he doesn't want to own a gun? JP>That, he, himself, would not put his OWN life JP>on the line and oppose tyranny? Are you so naive to think that killing yourself with a gun is the only way to oppose tyranny? JP>I'm trying to do a little conciousness raising here, Nolan. Are you? Or are you instead playing a smear campane? JP>Larry Pratt, of Gun Owners of America, wrote an article that appeared JP>in one of the gun mags a few years ago. (Guns & Ammo, I think) It JP>was something along the lines of "Ten Mistakes Gun Owners Make in JP>Politics". JP>One of the mistakes was this: ANY politician can buy a Life JP>Membership in the NRA simply by writing a $500 check to the NRA. JP>Many politicians do. Whenever some gun owner gets up at a meeting JP>and asks a question about gun control, instead of answering it JP>directly, the politician simply says, "I'm an NRA Life Member." The JP>gun owner then sits down, satisfied that the politician MUST be a JP>good guy. Right? Yes, see it all the time around here. Vote republican, sit down satisfied. Thhbbbt. JP>Right! Remember George Bush? At least I had the brains not to vote for him. JP>Now I'm getting concerned that some people seem to be treating the JP>word "libertarian" the same way. Politician says he's a JP>"libertarian", you can stop worrying and just vote for him. Right? That I would agree with. JP>I fear it 'taint neccessarily so, Nolan. I agree. One should always look and learn. But not create ghosts that are not their either. And I fear that is what you are doing. There are many reasons for not owning a gun. Far more then the two you've come up with. If you're really worried about it, ask him. But a smearing worry game is the same sort of thing the republican & democrat spin doctors do to each other. --- * CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: The GreyHawk BBS Columbia, MD 410-720-5083 USR V.34 (1:261/1116) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00010 Date: 07/26/96 From: NOLAN PENNEY Time: 09:25am \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 1 times) Subj: The supremes ML> Try this on as a thought to ruin your day....Clinton gets ML>re-elected along with a Democratic Senate. Janet Reno becomes a very ML>real posibility for the Supreme bench. Try this on as a thought to ruin your day...Dole gets elected, and we keep a republican Senate. Janet Reno becomes a very real possibility for the Supreme bench. --- * CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: The GreyHawk BBS Columbia, MD 410-720-5083 USR V.34 (1:261/1116) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00011 Date: 07/26/96 From: NOLAN PENNEY Time: 10:04am \/To: MAX LAKE (Read 1 times) Subj: A slap in the face ML> ML> Clinton has said he would propse outlawing the private ownership ML> ML> of hand guns. I do not believe Dole is that far out. ML> ML> NP> Max, no offense, but I've only heard this rumor from the far ML> NP> right. I've never heard anything backing it up. Do you have ML> NP> anything? ML> Comment in one of the news releases from NRA or GOA that get ML>posted here as I recall. Something like "Clinton has told members of ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ML>the media....". I didn't save it. Then I guess your words best apply here. ML> You can document this of course. GP> No, but I'm almost sure he said things in support of it. ^^^^^^^^^^^ ML> Oh, I see. Good for the goose, good for the gander... --- * CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: The GreyHawk BBS Columbia, MD 410-720-5083 USR V.34 (1:261/1116) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00012 Date: 07/20/96 From: DARRYL ROWE Time: 10:31pm \/To: JOHN SANDOW (Read 1 times) Subj: AMT Backup JS>.380 Double action only version? It's about right. JS>It's not a gun you are going to shoot a lot, but if you radius the edges, JS>you'll have a very small (but relatively heavy for the size) backup with JS>6 rounds of .380 hydrashok at your disposal. If you have big hands, JS>make sure you feel good with this gun before buying it. JS>FWIW- this is my .22 backup: Smallest chambering I'd feel safe on using JS>to try and stop a bad guy. Used with the realization that there is a JS>good probability that I'll have to follow up with contact defense. Hehehe. I use a DAO Backup ... in .45ACP! Nice gun, but not a target piece. Goes good with Thunderwear. SLMR 2.1a So many women. So little cooperation. --- WM v3.11/92-0211 * Origin: Paul Revere Network/HQ Chicago - (312) 482-9940 (1:115/223) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00013 Date: 07/27/96 From: PAUL NIXON Time: 06:46am \/To: JOHN PERZ (Read 1 times) Subj: .45 predudice John was heard muttering to Paul Nixon about .45 predudice JP> Question, Paul. A frothing-at-the-mouth maniac with a machete is JP> running toward you. Still comfortable with your choice of carry gun? My normal/usual...75% of-the-time...carry gun is a 1911. No, I'm not comfortable with that choice -- I'd really prefer an M79 with buck in that situation. But under normal circumstances .45 is imo a reasonable compromise between what I'd like and practicality. About 25% of the time I'm carrying a .380. No, I don't want to have to use it, under any circumstances. But I've had to make a compromise between carrying as discreetly as possible and choosing no firearm. The .380 _may_ not stop the maniac, but it'll dern sure bother the average miscreant. Most defensive uses (statistically) end without a shot being fired. At typical defensive ranges the .380 pointed at some ole boy's face is _likely_ (not 100%, true) to cause him to change his mind. Which is not to say that the situation isn't improvable. The .380 will be augmented shortly with a Charter in .38Spl. Again, not the _best_ defensive round, but bettern nothing. And if it came down to it, a NAA in .22 mag in my boot would be better than nothing. --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: CyberSupport Hq/Co.A PRN/SURV/FIDO+ (602)231-9377 (1:114/428) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DBY00014 Date: 07/27/96 From: PAUL NIXON Time: 06:46am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 1 times) Subj: 1996 Elections Earnest was heard muttering to Paul Nixon about 1996 Elections EP> for me; I'm less liberal than Bill Clinton". Unless Dole starts EP> mending fences soon, the presidential race will become a "who EP> cares" race. Still, he IS less liberal than Clinton; and I That's like saying "Boy am I glad I didn't poke out my _other_ eye too!" At this point I don't really care who is the next president. It's likely gonna be Clinton. And that's likely gonna mean big, huge, tremendous problems for us. But maybe better sooner than later: the ole "Fight 'em while you can still win" philosophy per Mr. Churchill. My mainest concern with a Dole candidicy, and the resulting "ho hum" attitude is the greater likelihood that more liberal Democrats will win house and senate seats. "You are not entitled to an opinion." An opinion is what you have when you don't have any facts. When you have the facts, you don't need an opinion." ... Remember Harry Thomas --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: CyberSupport Hq/Co.A PRN/SURV/FIDO+ (602)231-9377 (1:114/428)