--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400301 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 09:54am \/To: RD THOMPSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: NRA RT>I intend to vote Libertarian at the local level to build up the power RT>base, but I will vote for Dole at the national level simply to keep RT>Clinton out of the White House. We have no local canidates. Hey, maybe I should... no, i'll wait a little bit, I just got elected onto our homeowners board, I'm going for town board next time. RT>JS> BTW- I hear the democrats are going to change their party symbol RT>JS> from an ass to a shredder. :-) RT>Perhaps it should be an ass using a shredder. :^) Oui' SLMR 2.0 Would that reason were as contagious as emotion. * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400302 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 10:08am \/To: JOHN PERZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Food for thought . . . JP>-> This is exactly my fears of carrying in condition one. A DA trigger JP>-> lets me safely carry, draw, or hold target without the safety being JP>-> on. JP>This is exactly why I remain a confirmed wheelgunner. However, I can (usually, depending on the gun) toss a safety on which might give me an extra moment of time should someone manage to get their hands on the gun. Did I tell you I just bought a Dan Wesson .357? Used, but in good condition. It came with a 6" barrel, I'm going to look for a 10" barrel next time the gun show comes around. Very nice SA and DA trigger, better than I thought these things ever got. I would have preferred a .357 maximum, but for $250 I could not say no. A 10" barrel will help matters in this regard though, while still making the gun fully useful for mundane chores such as trail use, target, teaching, and whatnot. Now I have to get into .357 reloading, I've got a set of RCBS dies, getting a Lee factory roll crimp, 110 & 158gr Hornady XTP bullets on order, I may get 140 and 180gr as well, and some swaged 148gr for target. And of course, some Vihta Vuori N110 powder, slower even than their N350 pistol powder. If I try my ultra-light weight jacketed bullets in this gun, I'm positive I'll be able to crack the 3000 fps mark, even with the 6" barrel. :-) Question: At what point shoudl I consider using magnum primers for .357 loads? I would assume when I start using large amounts of slow burning powders, but can i get away with using regular primers regardless of the load? I would think this might actually resuly in lower pressures in any case, given to a more linear progression of power ignition. Any thoughts? SLMR 2.0 Nietzche was stupid and abnormal. - Leo Tolstoy * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400303 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 02:46pm \/To: PAUL NIXON (Read 2 times) Subj: guns and how they go PN> JS> Robert Heinlein, affirmed cat lover and grandious cat name giver, if PN> JS> my memory serves right, once indicated of having no compunction of PN> JS> shooting feral cats, while at the same time would protect his own cats PN> JS> to the nth degree. He would of course begin protecting them by not PN> JS> letting them out where they could get into trouble in the first place. PN> (I'm working without a net here) PN> "Grumbles from Beyond the Grave," the first book published by Baen PN> after the master's death, described his being unhappy at the PN> necessity of having to kill a feral cat that was harrasing his own. PN> This was at the time of his building his own house in Colorado. I knew I read it somewhere, but couldn't find it in any of his novels. PN> His attitude towards cats comes through pretty well, imo, in "The Door PN> Into Summer," wherein he describes his cat as refusing to go outside PN> until it had attempted to find the "correct" door during inclement PN> weather. He described cats pretty well anytime he wrote about them. I particularly liked the time he declared any croquet ball which was moved by a cat to be a valid shot, treated as an act of God... :-) PN> Oh, the on-topic part: in the description of Heinlein shooting the PN> feral cat he used a handgun, as I recall a .45, and mentioned he was PN> pleased his accuracy was adequate to the job. AAMOF it was his ability Yeah, he really didn't shoot much at all, as I remember. He remarked one time about how he finally went through 50 or 100 rounds for the first time in years, again being pleased at his accuracy. Sounds like a pattern developing here... :-) SLMR 2.0 Puns are bad, but poetry is verse. * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400304 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 02:54pm \/To: JOHN PERZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Food for thought . . . JP>system, by means of which the pistol is cocked with the left thumb as JP>it comes up on target, is technically unworkable. In class work I JP>always permit any student who is stuck with a trigger-cocking pistol JP>either to thumb-cock or to use the crunch-tick system, whichever seems JP>best to him. Thumb-cocking wins almost every time. I wrote to the Coop a few years ago, pretty much just thanking him for being the curmudgeonly font of information and commentary he is, and also mentioned that I personally preferred DA autos. I'd probably as he says, actually perform a bit better if I went to sa autos and used condition one, but I'm not about to pay the price in money and time to make the conversion. Besides, I like being able to adapt to various types of guns in tense situations. Generalization vs. specialization and all that. JP>It seems that my correspondent is operating from an unsound base, not I agree with Jeff on this one 100%. Telling Cooper that what he teaches is impractical is about the most ignorant/presumptious thing I've heard. JP>worrying primarily about the deadly danger of negligent discharge. I JP>have taught thousands of pistol shooters, and I cannot remember the JP>last time we had a negligent discharge on the range. JP>Curiously enough, the hostility I detect expends itself in personal JP>insult rather than attention to the facts. One does not win arguments Jealousy. I see it in supposed firearm 'professionals' all the time. They are not nearly as bad as politicians, but worse by far than most technical professions I have come across. I'd welcome anything Jeff Cooper has to say to me at any time. I may not always follow it, and may occasionally disagree with it as a personal issue, but I'd hardly deign to think of it as an encompassing wrong. SLMR 2.0 Question: Why does Hawaii have an _interstate_ highway? * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400305 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:00pm \/To: DAVID R. NORTON (Read 2 times) Subj: .40S&W mach 2 plus! DRN> LK>Koch.It retails for about 700 bucks and is the basis for the new special DRN> LK>operations pistol adopted by the us special forces[in 45 of course].All DRN> LK>in all a nice well made piece,although it's a little big to conceal. DRN> LK> 1911 forever DRN> JS> I'll probably be flamed for this, but I see the USP as a very viable DRN> JS> evolution of the 1911 for the year 2000. I'm sure there are some DRN> JS> preferred features of the 1911 over the USP, but you can't beat the DRN> JS> performance! :-) DRN> I doubt very much if the USP will ever replace the 1911 for several DRN> reasons and the biggest one is price. No flames, just think that the DRN> price will forever make any H & K a low volume seller. I don't see it so much as price, $650 vs. $450-500 is not unworkable in any but the most extreme case. Plenty of Colts go for well beyond the USP's price, and folks gladly shell out for them. I agree that the USP won't actually take over, but there is no good reason that it couldn't. There are too many other extremly reliable and more size effecient .45 autos aout there, and HK's sometimes persnickity nature understandably turns a lot of folks off. But I've got mine. :-) Besides, I think the .40, being the native chambering, is better anyway. :-) SLMR 2.0 Raise you hand for more gun control-- "Seig Heil!" * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400306 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:01pm \/To: DAVE APPEL (Read 2 times) Subj: Expired Listing BO>The listing in the Zone 1 EchoList for this echo has expired. The Zone 1 BO>Backbone only carries echoes listed in the Zone 1 EchoList, so it will be BO>necessary for someone to assume the moderatorship and list it if it is to BO>remain on the Zone 1 Backbone. There is a three month grace period to BO>accomplish this. BO>During the first month only the old moderator can list the echo. After this, BO>anyone can list it. If the old moderator is gone, then perhaps now is a good BO>time to hold an election to choose a new one. BO>For more information please consult these files: BOFAQxxx.TXT and BO>ELISTxxx.ZIP, where "xxx" is the version number. They are available from mos BO>hubs or can be requested from 1:1/200, 1:1/201, 1:283/120 or 1:396/1. Dave, are you still moderator? What's up? SLMR 2.0 ROTFLMAO: Isn't that a Norse god or something? * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400307 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:04pm \/To: MICHAEL GILLIAM (Read 2 times) Subj: guns and how they go MG>PN(> To assume that any of those things would come to pass having made a MG>PN(> charge would leave you in a position of chapter 7, bud. MG>Not at all. MG>PN(> MG> hose, but don't shoot 'em. Hey, there are some super powerful MG>PN(> MG> high-volume water pistols out there now, try one of those. MG>PN(> Unacceptable. MG>No doubt. People who don't like cats don't just not like them, they MG>hate them, and nothing that happens (or that they do) to a cat is too MG>bad for it. But I'll speak up, and if I can I'll take action. Oh, so you've seen people here doing this? How is it that have gone from seeing people discussing ammo for ridding themselves of diseased feral cats to animal torture? Are you psychic? Speak up as to how you know this. You made accusations, and if you can't come up with definate proof pal, you are the one looking at possible charges being filed at. SLMR 2.0 Save our children! Shoot a drug dealer or gang banger. * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400308 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:07pm \/To: TIM MORGAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Cats TM>Come on folks...lets drop this cat thread. Or maybe we should just send TM>this thread right to the Newspapers and show them what kind of stuff gun TM>owners chat about. By the way, I will not respond to any posts to this TM>message. Good, because I have nothing to be ashamed of in what I have written, and I don't like folks telling me i better be careful about what I say, just because some bozo gets upset. I stand by my postings, and if someone wants to publish it they may do so. SLMR 2.0 Schwietzer Romeo-33, cleared for ILS 34 circling approach * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400309 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:12pm \/To: GARY WESTFALL (Read 2 times) Subj: cats GW> MG> livestock from cats. Besides, the intent here is obvious: shoot ats GW> MG> for fun. No, not even for fun -- shoot cats because you plain don't GW> MG> like 'em. GW>Cats can be a problem with chickens and rabbits to name just two. GW>Have you ever lived in the country where there are farms and ranches? No, but he must be psychic, he knows someone's intent just by reading a few typewritten lines thy've posted. I hope he can read my mind about what I'm thinking about him right now, because I can't post it here... :-) SLMR 2.0 Schwietzer Romeo-33, go around, proceed to VERDE and hold * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DB400310 Date: 06/29/96 From: JOHN SANDOW Time: 03:25pm \/To: GARY SHWEID (Read 2 times) Subj: H&K USP GS>MS> I've only read about it. Have you seen or shot one? GS>I just recently got the .40 USP. I chose it over the .45 only because it GS>was just slightly smaller and my hands just aren't large enough for the GS>.45. Good choice. I'm sorry, but arguments like "... I even own a few .40's, but shooting them just doesn't excite ..." are just oozing with prejudice. The .45acp is a great chambering, but it's not a magical holy godsend. The .40S&W easily outdoes it in muzzle energy from similar length barrels in the lighter mass defense rounds. There are tons of exceptions of course, and I'd rather get in front of a 9mm than either the .40 or the .45, but I'd prefer none at all. A hot loaded .40S&W can work wonders, as can a hot loaded .45acp. Two choices, same general performance. The USP however was made to easily take .45acp +p, which will out perform .40S&W in terms of ballistics. I'll stick with the .40, which has very impressive performance even out of a 3" barrel. If I ever get a .45acp, unless it's a great deal on a good used gun, it'll probably be a USP. :-) BTW- as you will find out, the USP's really shine in terms of managing felt recoil when you get into +p ammo in both .40 and .45. SLMR 2.0 Seatbelts everyone! I saw this on a cartoon once! * LAKOTA v1.5 --- Alexi/Mail 2.02 (#10000) * Origin: -= N I G H T L I N E =- Home Of GameNet '95 (1:115/815)