--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00001 Date: 06/12/96 From: MICHAEL GILLIAM Time: 06:51am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: guns and how they go Response To: PAUL NIXON (1:114/428) PN(> From your experience with the cb's would you say they would make an PN(> acceptable cat gun in a suburban environment? What are you doing shooting cats? If I saw you I'd have you hooked up with a felony charge ASAP. You don't like cats, spray 'em with a hose, but don't shoot 'em. Hey, there are some super powerful high-volume water pistols out there now, try one of those. * SLMR 2.1 * Come and take it. WWIVMail/QWK 4.56 [EVALUATION COPY]: Fix Or Repair Daily BBS - @409 ON idoNet --- WFIDO 1.10c * Origin: The Fix Or Repair Daily BBS, WWIV 4.24a, Carlsbad, CA! (1:202/409) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00002 Date: 06/10/96 From: LOU KIESLING Time: 8:50am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: .40s&w mach 2 plus! -=> Quoting Earnest Padgette to John Lewis <=- JL>NP>And here in Baltimore it is illegal for you to own or wear a bullet JL> >proof vest as a generic citizen. Double sigh... JL> >--- JL> What's the point in that law?... JL>--- EP> Only a criminal would wear a vest to protect himself from EP> police bullets. Since the general public won't be shot at by EP> the police, they don't need the vests. Ernie P. And no doubt the same benevolent police force will protect all your rights too (except that embarassing 2nd), so you may turn your firearms in now also. We're all on the same team anyway, and they're TRAINED, so line up! Anyway, would dada gov't let anything BAD happen to you? Nooooooo. While we're at it, I propose that we get rid of assault lawyers. The gov't makes the laws, so they obviously know when they're broken. As they always have your best interests at heart (and rarely make an error), you'll have no NEED to protect yourself from something that means you no harm. Why should we support such an expensive and redundant system? All that extra $$ that we (as a COMMUNEity) save could go to help the less well off or lazy. I'm getting that warm, cozy feeling again... ... Turned in my guns, all I got was these crummy leg-irons. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- InterEcho 1.11 * Origin: Paul Revere Net NJ, McGuire AFB NJ, (609)723-8436 (1:266/703) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00003 Date: 06/12/96 From: DAN ARICO Time: 11:12pm \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Alert EP> The bad part about attempting to communicate your position on EP> legislation is the legislation it'self changes radically and EP> rapidly. You don't often get the finished bill and sufficient time EP> to examine it closely. Amendments are often added almost as the EP> votes are being taken. EP The Crime Bill is one of the worst examples of this. It was over 20,000 pages long and the final copy had addenda stuck on with staples, paper clips and rubber bands. In addition the whole thing was covered with hand-written notes (some in pencil) and 3M stickums. It is actually impossible to prove that the bill that was passed is the same one that Clinton signed. If I could make one change in the way Congress does things, it would be to outlaw multiple purpose legislation and non-germane amendments. ___ X RM 1.3 02881 X Give the Klintons what they deserve: a fair trial! --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-765-0822 Bang, bang, shoo-oo-oot shoot! (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00004 Date: 06/13/96 From: DAN ARICO Time: 07:31am \/To: GUY PUTNAM (Read 3 times) Subj: Think About It! GP> WD> I don't expect too much from Bob on the Dole but I'll hold my GP> WD> nose and vote for him if it'll get rid of Clowntown. GP> You're exactly what's wrong with this country. Did it ever occur to GP> you to get rid of them both? Oh no, you just keep voting for them . GP> . . . I'd love to get rid of both of them and get a pro-gun president - How do I do it? Clinton's going to be the Democrat nominee (barring an indictment) and Dole's going to be the Republican nominee. Nobody else has a prayer of getting elected. If you think that choice is distasteful, you should try on my other choices. For the U.S. Senate, I have a choice between John Warner and a worse Democrat and for the House I can choose Tom Davis or a worse Democrat. Yuchhh! ___ X RM 1.3 02881 X BATF Jackboots.. with the unique kitten shaped tread. --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: Air 'n Sun 703-765-0822 Bang, bang, shoo-oo-oot shoot! (1:109/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00005 Date: 06/11/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 10:51pm \/To: STEVE GUNHOUSE (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: NRA -=> Quoting STEVE GUNHOUSE to GUY PUTNAM <=- SG> It may well be SG> that Tanya, Marion, Neal and Wayne do believe that some small amount SG> of gun control is reasonable (as in, I don't speak for them or for the SG> Board of Directors). Though obviously, said small amount doesn't SG> include the assault-weapons ban. GP> Do you think NRA is going to support Bob Dole, Gingrich, Phil Gram & GP> Kay Bailey Hutichenson? They _all_ voted for the "assault" weapons GP> ban. In fact, 98 out of 100 senators voted for the rifle & magazine GP> ban. Is NRA strongly opposing the reelection of all 98 of these GP> senators? SG> There are only 33 or 34 up for reelection this year Guy, and another SG> 1/3 back in '94. You ought to know that. (IOW, NRA can't oppose those SG> who aren't running at this point!) That's all fine & well for diversion . . . now, getting back to the point, do you think NRA is going to support some of those senators & reps, this coming election & the next (if we even have one) that voted for the rifle/magazine ban? SG> Off the top of my head, of course Dole is not currently running for SG>the Senate - and you don't expect them to oppose anyone running against SG> Clinton. I expect NRA to support a pro-gun candidate for president. Not one who voted for the rifle/magzine ban, or one who signed it. Do you expect them to "compromise" & support an anti-gun candidate? SG> Hutchinson is also not up for reelection this year. Best I recall NRA supported her last time, & probably will next time. She voted for the rifle/magazine ban! SG> I don't know much about Gramm's opponent yet, nobody really does. SG> Until I do - that is, until I know that he is at least as good as what SG> we've got - I am certainly not about to suggest they oppose him in the SG> general elections. If NRA doesn't oppose magazine-banning Gramm, then they will be supporting another anti-gun candidate. Is there something strange in the air, or, am I the only one noticing that NRA heavily supports anti-gun candidates? GP> I will speak for NRA . . . . if they don't oppose _all_ those above, GP> then they are supporting the rifle & magazine ban,just as NRA did when GP> it supported & gave members' money to Jack Brooks & opposed Steve GP> Stockman! NRA even sent Ms Tanya down to Brooks district to scrounge GP> up votes for The Traitor Brooks ... but Texans ran her out of town on GP> the rail. They ran Brooks out too, Tanya's fair-haired favorite. SG> That's not exactly what happened, they never did give money to Brooks SG> in '94 due to the outcry. Somebody paid for Tanya's plane ticket. SG> They had endorsed Brooks for all the wrong SG> reasons, but were forced to withdraw that support. I just don't recall them withdrawing support for Brooks, unless it was the morning of the election. GP> NRA is a Traitor that actively promotes the imposition of terror, GP> hi-tech torture & death down upon American families . . . Assisting in GP> the unconstitutional limitations of private access to current arms GP> promotes a death sentence to Americans finding themselves "living" GP> under International Fascism. It's not "funny" anymore . . . . GP> NRA is now an integral component of the Fascist Terror Stalking GP> America. Without NRA, Traitors would not be able to put on as GP> effectively their dog-&-pony-show of The Conflict Of Opposites for the GP> American Sheeple,as dictated by the Hegelian dialectic process that is GP> currently being imposed down upon America by wanna-be gun-grabbing GP> Fascist Dictators, or The "Illuminated" Ones; as they like to think of GP> themselves. SG> As usual, you go a bit far with your rhetoric. Perhaps its slipped past you, but don't you find it rather odd that our employees want all our guns, ammo & magazines _right_now_, whether Repub or Demo!? SG> You're suggesting throwing away everything in favor of an unknown, I'm suggesting throwing away all anti-gunners in favor of freedom! Isn't that what our Founding Fathers did, throw it "all away" for freedom? We wouldn't be throwing anything away that they didn't, which is Tyranny? SG> . . . just for revenge. No, not at all . . . just for Liberty! SG> As SG> I've said,I don't like some of the policies currently supported by the SG> NRA, but they're still the best thing we have. They still tend to play SG> the odds - which I don't buy - NRA needs to be changed by the membership from "best thing we have," into something actually _good_. Just like gov't, all current compromising NRA "leaders" need to be thrown out, & regular folks from back home, people like you, need to be sent up there to run things & put on salary so they can afford to drop everything & do it. SG> . . . but I can see that they have to work with what's there. That's not what the Founding Fathers did. Don't we breed any men these days, with something besides wind between their legs? SG> And are you saying you'd like to have a Democratic Senate again, and SG> more of Bill Clinton? No thanks. No, I'm saying I don't want _any_ more Klintons, Doles or Gingriches . . . period. There's no reason NRA members can't get off their bottoms & put some regular folks in leadership so they can run things properly. There's no reason NRA can't support the Constitution Party, or create a party from the ranks of gun owners. Its not an impossible goal, especially with the stakes so high. SG> They aren't the best thing - sometimes SG> I'm not even sure if they're a good thing - but they're still the best SG> we have. The only thing standing between Freedom & Tyranny is _inaction_, or rather, action mis-directed by the problem. Its the silliest thing I've ever heard, that pro-gun people have to support the lesser of 2 anti-gun trash. Our employees work the Conflict of Opposites greatly to the advantage of Fascist Tyranny. --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00006 Date: 06/11/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 10:54pm \/To: BRIAN SAWYERS (Read 3 times) Subj: SKS gas piston rod tube handguard remova22:54:0106/11/96 -=> Quoting Brian Sawyers to All <=- BS> Anybody ever succesfully remove the wood from the gas tube, and BS> replace it with the synthetic piece? If so, _how_ ? :^) I buy mine from Choate Machine & Tool in Bald Knob, Ark. Then, I send it to them & they do it for free . . . with a 1-day turnaround. --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00007 Date: 06/13/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 01:01am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: alert -=> Quoting Earnest Padgette to Guy Putnam <=- NP> Pff, how about the anti-machine gun bill long *long* ago. As I've NP> understood it,the NRA backed the near outlawing of machine guns, with NP> the same promise. GP>I wasn't around in '34, but that's what I hear the old-timers say. EP> Both of them? There aren't that many people running loose who EP> were fully aware of the provisions of the 1934 law. Can anyone EP> here honestly say they remember it's passage? And the ins and EP> outs of the legislative maneuvering at that time? Ernie P. It's statute now, isn't it? --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00008 Date: 06/13/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 01:10am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: NRA -=> Quoting Earnest Padgette to Guy Putnam <=- GP> NRA is a Traitor that actively promotes the imposition of terror, GP> hi-tech torture & death down upon American families . . . Assisting GP> in the unconstitutional limitations of private access to current arms GP> promotes a death sentence to Americans finding themselves "living" GP> under International Fascism. It's not "funny" anymore . . . . GP> NRA is now an integral component of the Fascist Terror Stalking GP> America. Without NRA, Traitors would not be able to put on as GP> effectively their dog-&-pony-show of The Conflict Of Opposites for the GP> American Sheeple, as dictated by the Hegelian dialectic process that GP> is currently being imposed down upon America by wanna-be gun-grabbing GP> Fascist Dictators, or The "Illuminated" Ones; as they like to think of GP> themselves. EP> Guy, I was going to respond to the above; but realized the EP> best and most effective response is simply to repost your own EP> words. They ring true, no matter how many times reposted. EP> Please re-read them carefully. If you, in fact, believe EP> what you have written; then your and my perceptions of reality EP> are too far apart to have a constructive dialogue. Ernie P. Similar thoughts were expressed in 1930's Germany . . . . A letter to a newspaper by James A. Hancock Matoaca, VA: Some years ago I had an experience that set my view for life on any kind of gun control. In spring 1953, my wife and I were living in La Rochelle, on the southwest coast of France. After an invitation to go fishing on a small lake at St-Nazaire, a friend warned we would lose some bait because the bottom of the small lake was covered with guns. The Germans arriving in La Rochelle in June 1941 went first to the Police Prefecture and seized all the gun registration files. They ordered all guns be brought to the prefecture. Execution was the penalty for failure to comply. People with a file but no gun were brought to the prefecture, where a German soldier assisted by a French gendarme simply shot the person with a single shot to the back of the head. All the guns collected were disabled by a group of German soldiers, loaded onto trucks and dumped into the lake we were fishing some 12 years later. I am not a member of the National Rifle Association. I find their slogan about only criminals having guns to be shallow propaganda. My love for the Bill of Rights is the bedrock for my own patriotism. I have always stood ready to pay with my life for that precious protection from the natural tyranny of govern- ment. Fear of an armed populace keeps government in check. I found it chilling that a local policeman assisted in those summary executions in La Rochelle. My friend told me seven members of the local police force were found dead over a three-month period in 1946. No one mourned. ========================= End of Letter ========================== This is where compromising takes us, & NRA has been encouraging compromise. ... * Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00009 Date: 06/13/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 01:20am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: alert -=> Quoting Earnest Padgette to Steve Gunhouse <=- EP> The 1986 law had a lot of good things in it. Then perhaps you can list some of them, the ones that made it worth NRA backing the first precedent in the history of the United States in which govt employees banned the manufacture of _any_ category of firearm for private consumption by the legitimate government . . . The People. List some "good things" that were worth backing the same precedent later used to ban rifles/magazines . . . . . EP> The NRA decided to back the law, despite the bad stuff. As always . . . & we ended up with a rifle/magazine ban, based on that precedent. Machine guns doubled in cost at first, & now many have tripled, & more! Our children & grandchildren can forget owning any of them, unless their name is Rockefeller. You're the NRA, (not me). The mighty trade-off is that now, we don't have to sign out our ammo when we buy it. I'd rather have machine guns, rifles & magazines. EP> That's one of the EP> reasons the folks in charge *then* aren't in charge *now*. EP If so, then NRA would not have backed the Fascist Terror Bill most recently. EP> The bad part about attempting to communicate your position on EP> legislation is the legislation it'self changes radically and EP> rapidly. You don't often get the finished bill and sufficient EP> time to examine it closely. Amendments are often added almost EP> as the votes are being taken. EP All the better reason to oppose it from the first, instead of diddling around with it & winding up supporting unlawful "legislation" as a compromise. It's the Synthesis, or, the product of the Conflict of Opposites that NRA takes a major part in. EP> Thanks for the support, Steve. We're doing the best we can. You are doing the best you can . . . . to do what?! Obviously not to support the 2nd Amend. As you recall, the 2nd says the individual's private access to current arms "shall not be infringed." That means no dealer licenses, no 4473's, no Form 4's, no multiple sales reports . . . and most of all, The Supreme Law Of The Land means NO COMPROMISE. Everytime NRA compromises it is actively working _against_ The Law. Now I don't fault you personally . . . at least not yet, as you just got on The Board. However, if you don't immediately start working against NRA participating as the Anti-Thesis in the Conflict of Opposites (until they throw you off the board), you will also become a tool of the Hegelican dialectic process of International Fascism. --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 275 GUNS Ref: DAI00010 Date: 06/13/96 From: GUY PUTNAM Time: 08:15am \/To: EARNEST PADGETTE (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: NRA -=> Quoting Earnest Padgette to Guy Putnam <=- GP> NRA is now an integral component of the Fascist Terror Stalking GP> America. Without NRA, Traitors would not be able to put on as GP> effectively their dog-&-pony-show of The Conflict Of Opposites for the GP> American Sheeple, as dictated by the Hegelian dialectic process that GP> is currently being imposed down upon America by wanna-be gun-grabbing GP> Fascist Dictators, or The "Illuminated" Ones; as they like to think of GP> themselves. EP> words. Please re-read them carefully. If you, in fact, believe EP> what you have written; then your and my perceptions of reality EP> are too far apart to have a constructive dialogue. Since my comments don't fall within the constraints of NRA-sanctioned oratory, let me clarify the appropriateness of them. There is a pattern showing that International Fascism is in fact, stalking America. Ruby Ridge & Waco should be self-explanatory. I think even the NRA admits this. Then, there was the World Trade Center bombing, which supported the "Crime" Bill & the Terror Bill. If you go & look up the court transcripts, you will see that the defense produced tape recordings of the FBI informant's conversations with the local FBI field office. The informant warned the FBI that if he delivered to the defendants the bomb materials that they would blow up the WTC. FBI ordered him to go ahead. Later, the informant told FBI that if he built the bomb for the defendants, they were going to blow up the WTC. FBI ordered him to do build it. The informant later told FBI that he had, as instructed, delivered the materials & activated the bomb & that the defendants were going to blow up the WTC. FBI gave the informant no further instructions. It's in the Federal trial transcripts! The WTC bombing was an "excuse" to pass the "Crime" Bill. After that was the OKC bombing. Police radio traffic, recorded off a scanner (& yes, I've heard a recording of it), captured the words of a OKC policeman saying: "We just found another unexploded bomb here in the evevator shaft . . . a military bomb!" Explosive experts from around the nation have come out & flatly stated that the columns of the building were broken with somebody's cutting charges, & were not the result of the explosion out front. One small business owner in OKC was at his shop opening up early when he saw the ATF & OKC bomb squad assembling in the parking lot across the street with "Bomb Squad" painted on their vehicles. This was 30 minutes _before_ the blast. In spite of threats & heavy intimidation by both FBI & ATF, the man has refused to change his "story." What we have here is evidence that agents of the US gov't blew up both these buildings & killed all those people. Now this was Klinton/Reno's excuse for the Terror Bill, that NRA supported. In OKC, just like Waco, they concentrated on the children. That seems to be Butch Reno's signature . . . . Now most recently we all of a sudden have 30 black-church burnings in the South. Butch R. steps in to quell the "nationwide conspiracy" with a Federal legislative "solution," while her agents are busy at work with gasoline cans. I have yet to see this "legislation," but cringe at the thought of it. If our employees aren't able to kick the tar out of the bill of rights with this one, maybe they will at least achieve their long desired racial strife! Now if you can't see a pattern here, let me spell it out more blatantly for you. Our employees are rapidly taking America away from us by embarking on a series of actions to instill fear & Terror in the hearts & minds of Americans, so as to make it easier for them to pervert the legislative process. IOW, they are Stalking America. They have already fostered Terror upon The People (the legitimate govt) by killing some of us at Ruby Ridge, by gassing & burning us at Waco, and by blowing us up at the WTC & at OKC. Our employees are burning our churches. Hitler burned the Reichstag. As our gun rights are marched over by tyranny, American families are going to experience the same terror those experienced under Hitler & Stalin, only it will at a higher technological level. Our employees have chosen the left-wing Fascist form of Socialism to impose tyranny down upon us, as opposed the left-wing Communist form of Socialism. This choice is for the same reason/problem that Mussolini had . . . ie, due to the influence of the Christian church as well as the free enterprise system, it is harder to get Americans (like Italian Catholics of 1930's) to swallow Communism which takes private property for the State, than it is to get them to swallow Fascism, which is the same as Communism except that it carries a facade of private property ownership. Thus we have, in _reality_, a Fascist Terror Stalking America, as we speak! NRA is, in _reality_, taking an active part in keeping people's eyes off of that fact that our employees are burning, killing & blowing up Americans across the nation; other than the more obvious, like RR & Waco, so as to maintain a veneer of credibility to those sending it money. NRA is playing the part of the Anti-Thesis in the Conflict of Opposites designed to keep men's eyes on Schumer/NRA & off of the Fascist Terror coming down the center. Bring these truths up at an NRA meeting & see how fast you get laughed-out/thrown-out of the board meeting . . . . . EP> words. Please re-read them carefully. If you, in fact, believe EP> what you have written; then your and my perceptions of reality EP> are too far apart to have a constructive dialogue. I suggest you consider what is really going on, before you mumble around about "my perceptions of reality" and not being able "to have a constructive dialogue." --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512) 282-3941 * H16/V34 * (1:382/91)