--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00009 Date: 02/19/98 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 07:44am \/To: MIKE ROSS (Read 2 times) Subj: RE: DEEP CYCLE GEL LEAD ACID > I really like your modifications. The obvious question would be if a > deep discharge type battery, like as used for trawling motors, would > have survived longer? Not in my experience. If I do nothing to the batteries except check the water, they go MAYBE a couple of years. I've gotten in the habit of load-testing them once a month, then giving them an equalizing charge. I'm hoping for a bit longer life, as a pair of trolling batteries runs about $150.00, and I have THREE decent sized (800 or 1000 VA) UPSs with this external battery setup. I buy brass screws and insulating washers at the hardware store to make up the binding posts, use #4 welding cable and solder-on lugs. I sometimes make my own lugs by flattening copper tubing on one end and drilling a hole in it. Colored tape from Radio Shack is a handy way of identifying cable polarity. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00010 Date: 02/19/98 From: DAY BROWN Time: 05:09pm \/To: ALEC CAMERON (Read 2 times) Subj: Home folk powers On 02-15-98 Alec Cameron wrote to Roy J. Tellason... AC> RJ> That may be a part of a stereotype, but what these AC> RJ> people are all about, AC> RJ> as far as I know, is that they don't expect the existing social AC> order to AC> RJ> continue to be maintained, and therefore they prepare themselves AC> in a AC> RJ> number of different ways (stockpiling of food, weapons, etc. AC> AC> Seems real destructive and selfish, I hope they see fit to stockpile AC> talent AC> and other resources to build a new community having exhausted the AC> weapons/ammo. AC> * Origin: Bundanoon, Southern Highlands, NSW AUS (3:712/517.12) I note your locale Alec. I am an hour's drive south of Harrison Arkansas, notorious for KKK, survivialist, white supremacist, and assorted other religious kooks. However, I think your nation is a good deal more rational and less plagued by demagogues. Since the whiskey rebellion, there has been an appreciation for how riled up this citizenry can get, and a suspicion how abusive of power the federal government can get. We all know that everybody is crazy, and that being the case, it is only prudent to be as armed and ready as they are. We all know that those in the power structure grew up just like the rest of us out in the country, and are just as nuts. God only knows, they, who seem to be in control of the culture, government, or economy might loose what little grip on reality they still have... And, I have three kids I've been raising in the country because I thought it was good for them, still feel some responsibility to take a few small steps to increase their chance of survival if the powers that be loose it. And if every bubba down in the city has the idea that I am crazy as a hoot owl, and armed to the teeth, I have no problem with that. I will stay where I am, grow food out in the garden, and maybe meet my responsiblities, and I can only hope he stays where he is till he starves... so I don't have to shoot him. I maintain the home electric power system because not only is it good for the environment, it adds a tiny bit of economic crash insurance for my family. Of course, the politicians might do the right thing and keep it all togather, but I don't trust them. ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 * Mutant n. does not mean what it used to. --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: * After F/X * Rochester N.Y. 716-359-1662 (1:2613/415) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00011 Date: 02/19/98 From: DAY BROWN Time: 05:25pm \/To: MIKE ROSS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Peltier Cooler MR> It sounds good. Now the question is which method is the more MR> economical MR> energy wise since the peltier cooler is obviously a cheaper initial MR> investment? Been thinking about that Mike. Depends on how much cold space you can get by with, and how well you can insulate it. Max on the peltier is about 75watt. can you find a fridge that will run on that? a 12vdc unit? if so, it will be an RV unit with a vertical door; every time you open it, the cold air spills out. You could built a chest type with a lid, both with rather more in the way of insulation; you could double the effective volume with one side that just stayed cool enough for lettuce and vegies, and the other side just above freezing for milk, and get something on the order of 6-12 cubic feet. If you cannot water cool, the forced air fan will draw another 5 watts, and halve the cubic capacity. And, of course, there is no freezer. PS: one other point about the design... they sell you the chip with only one heatsink, and you gotta come up with one on the other side. which side is hot don't matter... reverse polarity. Anyhow, I found a head for a 5hp Briggs; filed the area near the sparkplug hole to get a flat surface to match with the chip, and drilled some holes to bolt the sandwich togather. ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 * I'm an iconoclast; I hate GUIs. --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: * After F/X * Rochester N.Y. 716-359-1662 (1:2613/415) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00012 Date: 02/19/98 From: DAY BROWN Time: 06:33pm \/To: MIKE ROSS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: DEEP CYCLE GEL LEAD On 02-18-98 MIKE ROSS wrote to Ralph Hartwell... MR> I really like your modifications. The obvious question would be if a MR> deep discharge type battery, like as used for trawling motors, would MR> have survived longer? Good question Mike. Another one, however, is how much money buys you how much runtime? My experience with those- is that they sell at top dollar, and that if you don't particularly care what cubic space it takes up, then you get more watts per hour from whatever vehicle batteries are on sale, seconds, blems, etc. in your area than what you get with any industrial type. And then, what are you gonna do with these watt/hours? I build a "DCPC", which uses a dc-dc converter to supply the low voltage DC that the desktop computer motherboard actually runs on, and select motherboards with high levels of performance per watt. I've built desktop systems that would keep up a BBS on 10-20 watt and run all day on the batteries Ralph mentioned. Anudder question is how many years you want the batteries to last. If you up the acid level, you get more power per pound of lead. if you run the cell down however, you get sulphation sooner. I have seen 40 year old telco cells that only peaked out at 2.2v and saw that the acid was perhaps half diluted. Off hand, I'd say that the power density was a quarter to half of what you'd expect. As Roy says, there ain't no free lunch. ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: * After F/X * Rochester N.Y. 716-359-1662 (1:2613/415) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00013 Date: 02/20/98 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 11:36am \/To: LORIN POTTER (Read 2 times) Subj: TV ANTENNA BOOSTER -> Since we are both off topic with with bullcrap, maybe we can both -> stop Thanks Lorin. I really don't want to whack anybody. ^..^ Moderator Homepowr --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00014 Date: 02/20/98 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 11:42am \/To: DAY BROWN (Read 2 times) Subj: Home folk powers -> I maintain the home electric power system because not only is it good -> for the environment, it adds a tiny bit of economic crash -> insurance for my family. Of course, the politicians might do the Great save, Day, but let's drop the political side of this. It's all too true to be funny but not topical here. Tell us more about your WORKING HOMEPOWR system. ^..^ Moderator HOMEPOWR --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2P00015 Date: 02/20/98 From: SERGE BROUILLARD Time: 01:58pm \/To: SHANE DAY (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Survivalists No not oof-hand. But just accross the border in Vermont, New Hampshire and upper NY states, there are about 30 such groups i've heard about. Some are on the internet. Look for "Militia, survival, survivalist, training" on a shearch engine on the net, and you'll find some. Salutations: Serge Brouillard Montreal, Canada --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Juxtaposition BBS. Lasalle, Quebec, Canada (1:167/133) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2Q00000 Date: 02/20/98 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 08:30pm \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 2 times) Subj: Home folk powers Elvis Hargrove wrote in a message to Day Brown: -> I maintain the home electric power system because not only is it good -> for the environment, it adds a tiny bit of economic crash -> insurance for my family. Of course, the politicians might do the EH> Great save, Day, but let's drop the political side of this. EH> It's all too true to be funny but not topical here. Tell us EH> more about your WORKING HOMEPOWR system. And let me toss in here that one place where all such political discussions would be welcome is the 10TH_AMD echo. I'm *sure* the moderator wouldn't mind... email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2R00000 Date: 02/20/98 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 07:40am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: DEEP CYCLE GEL LEAD ACID >JD> My UPSs all have fans on the inverter heatsinks. Seems to me >JD> that if it'll handle the full load for even 15 minutes, it'll >JD> handle a bit less than full load for a long time. Mine don't >JD> run at full load, and I've run them for several hours at a low >JD> rate. > > That's a good point, and I'm going to have to look into that one of > these days. I'm not sure how much heatsinking is even in there, > perhaps it can be augmented. > > The model number on this unit is "520ES", which I presume means > that it's rated at 520va. I've got my system plugged into it (240W > PS), my monitor, and the modem's power pack, so it's not right up > there, though it's not exaclty trivially loaded either. Usually > when we get an outage I'll shut down anything I might be doing on > the system and kill the monitor, which puts it down to just the > system unit and the modem. If it starts to look like it's going to > last a while, I'll take the modem off-hook and leave it on, and > shut the system down too. One of the best investments I made was a clamp-on ammeter from Radio Shack. It comes with a plug-in 'splitter' so you can easily measure the current draw of a regular plug-in appliance like a computer. The splitter even has an "X10" facility to help measure real small loads. Here's some numbers that I've come up with: A P-133 with 96 megs of RAM, a 3 1/2" form factor HD, CD-ROM, and 5 1/4" FF HD pulls about 1.2 amps. This is 144 watts resistive, or about 170 watts RMS. (more or less, I don't remember the exact conversion) A P-200 with 96 megs and a single 3 1/2" FF HD and CD-ROM draws only about 1/2 amp, or maybe 75 watts. This machine also has a sound card in it. Mono monitors seem to draw about .2 amps, a color VGA runs a bit over 1 amp. Modems draw about 5 watts each, so aren't much of a factor unless you have a bunch of 'em (like I do). The USR Total Control rack draws about 4.5 amps with its 48 modems and 9 cooling fans. My 'nanny' setup with 3 computers and 4 Pioneer 6-pack changers draws about 3.5 amps, or about 500 watts. Newer computers with small FF hard drives (not necessarily small capacity) draw very little power. I've installed meters on 2 of my UPSs and find that they'll pull 20-40 amps from the batteries, depending on load. Again, these are sizable units, but do have fairly heavy output requirements. Upon power failure, I immediately shut down all monitors and my personal machine to save the batteries. If the outage lasts for a minute or so, I start the genset and drag the cables from the genshed to the barn. This spring, I'll hard-wire the genshed to the barn to elmiminate that part. I'm considering wiring in a transfer switch with the critical circuits connected to it. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: F2R00001 Date: 02/19/98 From: DAY BROWN Time: 08:29pm \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 2 times) Subj: Satellite BBS service On 02-18-98 Jim Dunmyer wrote to Roy J. Tellason... JD> We had an outage several years back that lasted 5 hours, JD> and I shut down everything except the Planet Connect JD> computer and satellite receiver so as to not miss the JD> incoming mail. It worked fine, but the total draw was very JD> low on a 1000 VA UPS. I am trying to set up BBS for customer support Jim, and the local rural phone service aint all that swift, and likely wont be able to keep up with ADL. Since it is long distance to everywhere, my customers are all long distance. so... Would a VSAT or some other dish be appropriate? what do you spoze it would cost to set something up? How affordable will it be for remote homesteaders for data/phone via satellite? Some of mine use cellular here in the Ozarks, but there's lots of regions where that aint available either. ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: * After F/X * Rochester N.Y. 716-359-1662 (1:2613/415)