--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF300037 Date: 11/02/97 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 10:27pm \/To: JUSTIN KEYS (Read 2 times) Subj: thanks Hi Justin! If y'wanna come out here you can look at a solar water heater that WORKS! ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF300038 Date: 11/02/97 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 10:41am \/To: DAVE HALLIDAY (Read 2 times) Subj: RE: ENGINE DESIGN > Most of the recent large ships are diesel-electric. Works great > The technology has been in place in locomotives for 20 years - it took > a while to show up on ships but it is proving to save fuel, offer > better control and be easier to run. Dave, Thanks for the feedback on that. I've been on a number of older ships, but didn't realize that new ones now use electric drive. Thanks!! <> --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF400000 Date: 11/02/97 From: DAVE HALLIDAY Time: 08:11pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: ENGINE DESIGN > DAVE HALLIDAY wrote in a message to JIM DUNMYER: DH>> Most of the recent large ships are diesel-electric. Works DH>> great since it allows the diesel to run at constent RPM, you DH>> derive ships power from the same engine ( no need for DH>> another engine for the genset ), infinite control over the DH>> speed and torque delivered to the props, when cruising, you DH>> can usually shut one engine down and run both props from DH>> the other engine ( makes periodic maintenence a lot easier DH>> too ) DH>> One added advantage is that since the engine isn't delivering DH>> power directly to the prop, the engine/generator assembly can DH>> be floated on shock absorbers - the vibration and noise is DH>> significantly less. DH>> The technology has been in place in locomotives for 20 years DH>> - it took a while to show up on ships but it is proving to save DH>> fuel, offer better control and be easier to run. DH>> Check any of the commercial marine magazines - Professional DH>> Mariner is a good place to start - National Fisherman is DH>> another one although it covers more of the small boats ( DH>> too small for these systems to be economical ) > Now I'm wondering just what it is that makes such a setup impractical > below a certain size... Only thing I can think of is size and cost - the mechanical transmissions for the smaller fishing boats cost about $3K or so and the extra generator, power control and motor would be in the $10K range to start ( high reliability needed here... ) Plus, the additional space for the motor and genset - most engine rooms on small boats have enough room for a spare can of oil and a wrench but nothing else. I have been on some boats where you have to dismantle part of the boat to gain access to the whole engine. Still, the smoothness of ride and the overal savings on diesel fuel would add up over a few years. > It seems to me that the answer to this one is the key to why we're not > seeing more in the way of hybrid vehicles, for one thing. > Way back when if you had a "shop" with "power tools" it usually > involved an engine of some sort, driving one or more shafts which > were often mounted up near the ceiling, and power was transferred to > various items of equipment via long, flapping, leather belts. The > engine could have been steam or whatever. My grandfather had at one > time a shop which used a similar setup driven by a big electric motor, > probably a 2 - 5 HP unit. The last memory I have of this is seeing > that motor sitting off in a corner, and noting that the various > tools now each had their own smaller motors, that having become much > more practical in the intervening years. > I suspect that we'll probably be seeing a similar transition in this > stuff before too much longer. Right - also, a large centrally located engine is more efficient, plus, with a system like your fathers, you had all of that wonderful torque stored in the system so you could really hog down on a tool for a few seconds and draw more than a couple horsepower out of it. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.4 [Reg] * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF400001 Date: 11/03/97 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 07:17am \/To: CHARLIE YOUNG (Read 2 times) Subj: ALTERNATE A/C > For stationary natural gas engines, does the gas have to be > compressed before feeding to the engine, or can it just > go from pipe to carbeurator? It might have to be cleaned up, but the pressures used at the engine are very low. As in inches of water column. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF500000 Date: 11/04/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 04:15pm \/To: DAY BROWN (Read 2 times) Subj: 12 volt power supplies Day Brown wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: DB> On 10-31-97 Roy J. Tellason wrote to Day Brown... RJ> There was also the UPS that would fit in the space where RJ> your normal power supply went, and I'm sure that something RJ> like that could be adapted for external battery power. DB> Well, maybe. lemme know if you see it again Roy. Ok, though I don't read the literature anywhere near as much as I used to... DB> The UPS designs I've seen are kinda pricey. It is a lot DB> cheaper to make the power supply part if the input voltage is DB> 48 v DC, which is commonly used as battery backup in Telco and DB> other types of critical commercial/business applications. Hmm. DB> And, then by locking in the user to some higher voltage, they DB> try to lock him into using their *proprietary* batteries... in DB> case you want more backup time in a small, or home office. I can see a somewhat higher voltage, it being easier to design stuff that will handle a fair amount of power without getting into absurd current levels. It can get kinda hard to solder battery cable sized wire to some of those transistor terminals, too... Some of the forklift batteries I've seen are 48 volts. I'll bet they'd run a computer for a *LONG* time! email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF500001 Date: 11/02/97 From: DAY BROWN Time: 07:48pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: 12 volt power supplies On 10-31-97 Roy J. Tellason wrote to Day Brown... RJ> There was also the UPS that would fit in the space where RJ> your normal power supply went, and I'm sure that something RJ> like that could be adapted for external battery power. Well, maybe. lemme know if you see it again Roy. The UPS designs I've seen are kinda pricey. It is a lot cheaper to make the power supply part if the input voltage is 48 v DC, which is commonly used as battery backup in Telco and other types of critical commercial/business applications. And, then by locking in the user to some higher voltage, they try to lock him into using their *proprietary* batteries... in case you want more backup time in a small, or home office. ___ * OFFLINE 1.58 * The Kavorkian Motel: We'll turn your lites out for you. --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: * After F/X * Rochester N.Y. 716-359-1662 (1:2613/415) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF500002 Date: 11/01/97 From: IAN WOOFENDEN Time: 08:55am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: Trace Engineering inverte On (31 Oct 97) Roy J. Tellason wrote to Ian Woofenden... IW> Get a catalog from Trace Engineering in Arlington, WA. They IW> are the foremost manufacturers of inverters (DC to AC). Cost IW> depends on capacity and power quality. One of their best IW> machines, the SW4024, gives 4kW of sine wave power, and costs IW> about $2500. RJ> Do they have an email address? I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but I think will get you there. Ian ... A cult is any religion without political power. ... Gun Control will work when criminals obey the law. --- PPoint 1.96 * Origin: Woof Point West (1:101/525.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF500003 Date: 11/01/97 From: IAN WOOFENDEN Time: 08:57am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: SOLAR POWER IN APT? On (31 Oct 97) Roy J. Tellason wrote to Ian Woofenden... IW> But I'd still recommend running major loads like fridge and IW> freezer directly on DC. RJ> What voltage dc are you talking about using here? While I RJ> haven't done a whole *lot* of reading on the subject, one of RJ> the objections I saw to running low voltage DC around much RJ> (particularly in the context of going from a windmill a fair RJ> distance to wherever your loads are) was the losses in the RJ> wire, meaning you either lose way too much of your power or RJ> you end up spending way too much on some seriously heavy wire. Most RE homes these days are 24 volt, and some are 48 volts. Smaller homes and cabins can be 12 volts. Line losses are a real concern, for sure. Wire sizing is important. RJ> I've been spending some time in a warehouse lately where RJ> they've got some *serious* batteries, for forklifts and other RJ> vehicles, and these all seem to be either 36 or 48 volt. I'm guessing that your forklift voltages have more to do with the _speed_ they want for the motors. Not much of a line loss issue there. Large wires are required, but the distance is short. Ian ... Famous last words: What happens if you touch these two wires tog-- ... Not a good one but better than the alternative! --- PPoint 1.96 * Origin: Woof Point West (1:101/525.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EF500004 Date: 11/04/97 From: TIM HUTZLER Time: 02:59pm \/To: CRAIG HEALY (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Chevy Co-Gen investi CH>I believe this 93% figure (natural gas) includes all the heat CH>reclaimation mantioned. I would question the 99% figure, as CH>friction and pumping losses are not as easy to reclaim. Ah, friction becomes heat. But heat contribution from friction is not nearly as much the heat going out of the exhaust. Kilowatts can be recovered there. One must be mindfull of the hazards, however. CH>One thing under consideration is the use of a catalytic convertor to CH>wring the last bit of fuel energy out and convert it to heat. At that CH>point, the noxious part of the exhaust would be safer to manipulate as CH>well... Agreed. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Madman BBS * Chico, California * 916-893-8079 * (1:119/88) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: EFA00000 Date: 11/04/97 From: DAVE HALLIDAY Time: 07:02pm \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: ENGINE DESIGN >> Most of the recent large ships are diesel-electric. Works great >> The technology has been in place in locomotives for 20 years - it took >> a while to show up on ships but it is proving to save fuel, offer >> better control and be easier to run. > Dave, > Thanks for the feedback on that. I've been on a number of older > ships, but didn't realize that new ones now use electric drive. Hi Jim! You are most welcome! Yeah - the current electrical power technologies allows for this to be done cheaply and it makes things a lot nicer. Also, Seattle's own "Virginia V" recently returned from a $300K refit and was recertified for passenger service. Power plant? Steam! --- Via Silver Xpress V4.4 [Reg] * Origin: Grey Matter * Seattle, WA * 1:343/210 * (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210)