--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DG500005 Date: 12/01/96 From: DAY BROWN Time: 08:23pm \/To: RICH WILLBANKS (Read 3 times) Subj: ALCOHOL RW>I'm looking for some, maybe a lot, of info on alcohol fuels... RW>Paperwork needed to produce ...alcohol. Paperwork? So far as I know, since you refer to fermentation, you need grain or some other source of sugar, not paper. Maple syrup don't seem likely. Sorghum, corn, or sugar cane stalks can be pressed to get fermentable juices. The hitch is that these are all heavy feeders, requiring high doses of nitrogen, generally gotten from dosing the field with ammonium nitrate. And, where does the ammonium nitrate come from? .. byproduct of crude oil refining. You could try to sprout barley, oats, and/or wheat to get the "malt" type syrup used in beer making. But then, you gotta dry the sprouts, and that is done in a gas fired kiln. And, no matter where or how you grow it, you will find that it takes a couple gallons of diesel to run the tractor for every bushel that's plowed, planted, and combined... unless you plan to use horses, which will take about 30% of your harvest to sustain thru the year. I looked into methanol from wood; forget that too. The temperature and pressure vessles needed go way beyond reasonable homepower investments. If I had the time and money to seek a homepowered vehicle, I'd shoot for a Rankine cycle steam engine fired with charcoal made in a chamber in the wood stove I heat the house with. But, even at that, I dunno if my wood heater puts out less particulate and chemical air pollution than a gas engine would. Course, out here in the Ozarks, that don't seem much of an issue. But, some places... --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 822-8640 (1:2002/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DG500006 Date: 12/01/96 From: DAY BROWN Time: 09:00pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Lightning The good news: My computer, stero, and VCR/TV all still run off 12 VDC. The bad news: my telephone was not homepowered, and the lightning bolt that hit the two foot trunk of a black oak 50 meters from my house and exploded it into dozens of chunks of natural split firewood, would've done the same to my other gizmos had there been a powerline to the house to attract that hit instead. But, I also got a couple of kilometers of fried phone wire; the post- mortem shows that the cable housing was split from internal pressure like an anurysm on my carotid artery to the net, every 10 - 20 paces in some places, with a few stretches of good wire 50 paces long. Of course, it wasn't a bolt out of the blue, so my modem was unhooked when I heard the storm coming. Nevertheless, I've been offline for a while. One of the businesses out on the highway lost 4 answering machines in 15 months, and has given up on them... suggesting that a hit on rural phone sytems or power lines [note the answering systems sit on a junction between the two utilities] ain't all that uncommon. Anyhow, if you are considering moving way out there, consider also the danger that the utility power would bring with it. Granted, they sell a UPS that is supposed to protect a computer, which if you read the fine print offers to replace some equipment, but which could not ever value the software and data you may have, and offer protection of so and so many Joules of current in so and so many milliseconds, as if you or I knew what the hell that meant, or whether it was anywheres near what might be required. With homepower, the lightning would havta hit the solar panel. And, if you add the cost of adequate surge suppression needed to protect your TV, stereo, Sattelite dish, computer etc... and add that cost to the pole, linework, and meter installation costs... you may find that you could install a PV system for that kind of money. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Home Power BBS - Renewables R Us (707) 822-8640 (1:2002/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGB00000 Date: 12/05/96 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 07:32pm \/To: DAY BROWN (Read 3 times) Subj: ALCOHOL Day Brown wrote in a message to Rich Willbanks: RW>I'm looking for some, maybe a lot, of info on alcohol fuels... RW>Paperwork needed to produce ...alcohol. DB> Paperwork? So far as I know, since you refer to fermentation, DB> you need grain or some other source of sugar, not paper. Been a while since I've seen *you* anywheres... Did you know that you still have a valid login here? Don't ask me what the password is, though. :-) --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGB00001 Date: 12/04/96 From: CHRIS HARPER Time: 06:56am \/To: IAN WOOFENDEN (Read 3 times) Subj: battery types On 01 Dec 96 at 15:53, Ian Woofenden of 1:101/525.3 wrote to Chris Harper about : IW> I took a 220 AH battery and took the numbers of cycles from the IW> curve at 5% discharge, 20%, 60% and 80%. Hmmm... I am sure that different battery makers would have similar but not the same curves for the same battery types, and that different types would have totally different curves all together. And I would bet that the battery makers aren't to forthcoming with the information needed to make these calculations, as longer battery life results in less sales (thus profits) in the future. So, I guess I will have to keep records of my own, and find out what rate is best by trial and error. Thanks, Chris Harper --- GoldED 2.41 * Origin: Grizzly BBS Wadsworth, Ohio, USA (1:2215/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGC00000 Date: 12/07/96 From: DARR HOAG Time: 01:55am \/To: DAY BROWN (Read 3 times) Subj: ALCOHOL *** On 01 Dec 96 20:23, Day Brown did say (to Rich Willbanks,) this: >>Paperwork needed to produce ...alcohol. > Paperwork? So far as I know, since you refer to fermentation, you need > grain or some other source of sugar, not paper. Tell that to 'the revenuers'. (*8 AFAIK, you can make only 10-gallons/year tax-free without a permit and/or "denaturing" it (which essentially happens when you add it to gasoline). --- Blue Wave/386 v2.30 * Origin: The Hideaway! - Tompkins MI USA - (1:2330/4) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGC00001 Date: 12/06/96 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 09:32pm \/To: CHRIS HARPER (Read 3 times) Subj: battery types Chris Harper wrote in a message to Ian Woofenden: CH> On 01 Dec 96 at 15:53, Ian Woofenden of 1:101/525.3 CH> wrote to Chris Harper about : IW> I took a 220 AH battery and took the numbers of cycles from the IW> curve at 5% discharge, 20%, 60% and 80%. CH> Hmmm... I am sure that different battery makers would have CH> similar but not the same curves for the same battery types, and CH> that different types would have totally different curves all CH> together. Probably, due to varations in the designs. CH> And I would bet that the battery makers aren't to forthcoming CH> with the information needed to make these calculations, as CH> longer battery life results in less sales (thus profits) in the CH> future. Have you asked them? What an absurd statement, really. Something technical of this sort is always going to sell better with data than without, as long as the mfr. is making enough to cover the cost of producing that data. The more that is known about them, the more applications they'll be found in, therefore the more sales. CH> So, I guess I will have to keep records of my own, and find out CH> what rate is best by trial and error. That'll tell you more about what's what in terms of how any given type of battery will do in _your_ situation, for sure. How are you planning to define your discharge points, by voltage or hydrometer reading? What will you consider "discharged"? I've seen specs for that going to, say, 10.5 volts for a 12 volt battery, though I wouldn't want to make it a habit to run them down that far. Voltage can also be misleading if you're dealing with surface charge at all. --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGC00002 Date: 12/05/96 From: TERRY JACKSON Time: 01:32am \/To: ALEC CAMERON (Read 3 times) Subj: Swamp cooler Terry spied a message from Alec Cameron to Jim Dunmyer on 09 Sep 96 08:16:00 about PHOTOVOLTAIC AIR CON Hello Alec JD> I visited folks in the Denver area in June, and they had a swamp cooler What excatly is a swamp cooler? :^) Have a good one. Terry ... Internet| Terry.Jackson@f203.n248.z1.fidonet.org --- Fido| 1:248/203 OR 1:248/206 ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- DB 1.58/004759 * Origin: SkipRidge CompuNet System * Green Valley, Ont (1:248/203) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGC00003 Date: 12/07/96 From: STEVEN BROWN Time: 10:47am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Heating systems I'm looking for info on geothermal installations. I'm going to be building a new house and would like to include this system into the house. I have a 5 acre tract of land with a good flowing creek through it. So any info would be greatly appreciated. We plan to build around May of next year. * SPITFIRE v3.51 -=*> ziGGy's,.. where it's always PARTyTIME! --- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000) * Origin: ziGGy's PARTyTIME BBS - Amelia, OH - (513) 753-0071 (1:108/265) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGD00000 Date: 12/04/96 From: JAMES DI PAULO Time: 05:09am \/To: ANSON CHONG (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Calculations Hello Anson, > In the end, even though Kw and set-up charges were high, he said that the > costs were lower than if he tried to do it himself. (I.e., he factored in > costs of his solar equipment and concluded that the main grid was still > cheaper. Interesting that he would buy poles and string wire, then claim it was cheaper, in view of the fact that his solar equipment must have been paid for after eight or ten years. Do you think something else may have been involved here? Am I missing something? It looks here like he has paid for two ystems. > (BUT, as a die-hard romantic, I still plan to go solar -- like another > buddy of mine who's been doing it for the past 20 years in that area.) There is always the factor of doing what one wants to do, money is not everything, sometimes. > Unfortunately, it sure is true, in Hawaii. Something like $4-6K just > to get the main wires and poles in where our homestead is. That is possibly less than you will pay for solar equipment, however, if you string the wire, you will have a monthy power bill and be subjebt to outages, brownouts etc. Are they a problem in Hawaii? ttyl jAMES --- DB 1.58/003790 * Origin: The Rain Forest * Denver,CO * (1:104/901) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DGD00001 Date: 12/04/96 From: JAMES DI PAULO Time: 05:15am \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: CALCULATIONS > James, > Please keep us posted as to how it turns out, if you'd be so kind. Will do, if I get a Fido connection down there. At the moment, it looks doubtful. There is a local (or semi-local, a flat rate for calling out of the immediate calling area) Internet connection, but there is nothing in the nodelist anywhere near for Fido. We may not have a telephone, but for celluar; I heard somewhere they have celluar modems out, but I do not know if this is so. It could be a pipe- dream, I haven't checked. Laters, James --- DB 1.58/003790 * Origin: The Rain Forest * Denver,CO * (1:104/901)