--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300005 Date: 09/02/96 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 10:27am \/To: BILL BAUER (Read 2 times) Subj: Steam > This is a pretty hazardous setup you're describing here... BB> It can have it's enlightening moments from time to time just BB> to keep things interesting. (8-) Heh. > BB> Then with all 11 batteries in line and charging you should be > BB> down to about 5 to 7 amps. > This is still a little high. (See above.) BB> Again, it works real well for me. Not so much that it cooks the BB> batteries too hard but it does give them an aggressive charge. I'll say. I'd call that big initial push "cooking it too hard" myself, and don't see how they'd last with doing this. > There needs to be some sort of current limiting in this > arrangement, or you're asking for trouble. BB> Only if a diode shorts out. That happens on rare occasions, but BB> never had it happen to me. I've seen cases were a whole bank of BB> batteries were turned to nothing more than melted blobs of BB> casing and lead. Heck of a mess. Yeah, soaked in sulfuric acid... > BB> After about 10 to 15 hours of charging, you need to disconnect > BB> and check the reading of each battery with the Snapon and it > BB> should show a good reading. Next, check the individual voltages > BB> with the digital again. No battery should be considered charged > BB> if it shows less than 12.76 volts. > You're going to be looking at surface charge, which will typically be > somewhat higher, as high as 13.5 or maybe even more, which will go away > after an hour or more. Unless you load it with something briefly... BB> That's what the Snapon battery checker does. It puts a heavy BB> load on them for 10 to 15 seconds and those that hold up under BB> the load are considered good. Those that don't are considered BB> bad. In a vehicle, turning on the headlights for 15 seconds will also do it. The load testers that I used would show you exactly how much the battery was capable of kicking out, though, which is often not the case with the smaller units which are sold to garages. I'm not familiar with the specific model you refer to here or what its capabilities are. > Actually, a hydrometer check is probably a good thing to do before you BB> The instructions sheets on your hydrometer should tell you BB> that it is impossible to get an accurate reading unless the BB> battery is well charged up. Since I use a hydrometer to show me what the state of charge is on a battery, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, a lot of people that I've dealt with seem to have a problem with understanding that a _load tester_ isn't going to give you an accurate reading unless the battery is fully charged, which I would determine with a hydrometer. > Chance isn't really a good way to do this, although at the low price you > mentioned, there really isn't any basis for complaint. BB> Especially since I guarantee the battery for as long as my BB> customer has the battery on his car lot no matter how long BB> that might be. Whoa! > The right way is to put a load tester on it and see what the battery > is capable of kicking out. But those aren't cheap... BB> New Snapons that do this are $150 each but usually available BB> in pawn shops for about 30 to 35 bucks each. It never occurred to me to look in a pawn shop for something like this, but then I can't recall the last time I've seen one. They don't seem to have them around these parts... > All in all, this sort of endeavor isn't really something that I'd > recommend for people to get into on a casual basis. There aren't that > many batteries out there to be had, anyway, as lead is considered > "hazardous waste" these days and almost everywhere you go to buy one > needs to get one in return as a "trade-in" or "core" or they charge you > extra. BB> Nope. You have to be serious about doing it and you have to do BB> it on a volume basis. I generally keep 66 to 77 batteries or BB> more charging all the time as my daily sales volume demands it. BB> I do have problems with getting enough cores even when all BB> sales are "plus exchange" and we are moving 50 to 100 or more BB> batteries daily. Most of our sales are to car lots who buy them BB> in quantities of 10 to 40 units at a time for $15 plus BB> exchange. I manage to sell another 10 to 20 units most days to BB> individuals at $25 each plus exchange. This is more volume than I did per day running that retail store! I know what you mean about car lots, too. There were a whole bunch of times when people would come in looking for a battery which would start a car "once or twice" just so they could get it to auction, for example. BB> You do have to be serious, but as you can see from the figures, BB> the income is pretty decent and the expenses not all that BB> great. I'm amazed that you can take used stuff and put any sort of a warranty at all on it, and not get into a serious mess in the process... --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300006 Date: 08/31/96 From: ELVIS HARGROVE Time: 01:30am \/To: RUSS WILLIAMS (Read 2 times) Subj: photovoltaic air con -> If it could draw enough moisture from the ground to cool the air, -> maybe it wouldn't. You c'n fergit THAT! Bone dry is the operative word under there! Our protracted drouth has buildings (including this'n) cracking and crumbling as they settle into the fizzle dust. -> I've thought about building a louvred enclosure around my condenser -> and running a drip system on it triggered by the T-stat. It would be -> a water chiller of sorts. In our relatively dry climate, it may be -> well worth doing.. -> Ay thoughts on that one? KEEP THE WATER OFF THE CONDENSER COILS! If'n you can cool the AIR the condenser eats, that's great, but I ruint a condenser by spraying it directly. I figgered that they got away with it in window units, so could I with a central-air condenser. TAINT SO! The chemicals in the water ATE the fins loose from the coils and the condenser went south! Lost ALL its effectiveness and cost me a bundle to replace. (But at least THEN I even HAD a little money.....) Can't EVEN afford to run it these days. Takes EIGHT tons to cool this barn in this climate. ^..^ --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: BOO! Board Of Occult, Rio Grande Valley Texas (1:397/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300007 Date: 09/02/96 From: RUSS WILLIAMS Time: 08:10am \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 2 times) Subj: PHOTOVOLTAIC AIR CON While on the heels of Geoff Duke, Jim Dunmyer said: Hi Jim, > I've thought about building a louvred enclosure around my condenser and > running a drip system on it triggered by the T-stat. It would be a > water chiller of sorts. In our relatively dry climate, it may be JD> However, I've seen schemes to do what you're proposing. Spraying water JD> on the condensor helps it dissipate the heat, lowers head pressure, JD> and cuts the electric bill. However, the minerals in the water are JD> left behind, building up on the condensor coils, and defeating the JD> purpose over time. The water could also cause corrosion, depending on I should have gone into a bit more detail; the water wouldn't spray directly on the condensor. The enclosure (redwood) would be built around the four sides of the unit; the top would be open but sealed by a closure strip of sheet metal to the top of the unit; this would force the air to be drawn in through the damp louvres which would cool the it by evaporation. Our humidity here is pretty low normally, so evaporation should cool pretty well. ... At the center of the earth, which way is down? --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The HobbyBoard - Sacramento, CA. 916-332-5823 (1:203/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300008 Date: 09/02/96 From: RUSS WILLIAMS Time: 08:29pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: Underground While on the heels of Geoff Duke, Roy J. Tellason said: RW> The inspectors are only enforcing compliance with the building RW> code which does not address aesthetics of design. It sets RW> minimum standards for fire and life safety, light, ventilation, RW> sanitation and energy compliance. RJT> I don't personally see a problem with most of this, as it's just RJT> common sense to want to build something that's going to be a good RJT> place for the inhabitants to live in, but then you get lots of RJT> "codes" that become *VERY* intrusive in terms of what you can and RJT> can't do with _your_ property in some locations. This is something I agree with your concerns being a closet Libertarian, myself, but you're getting away from building codes here and venturing into the realm of your local zoning codes, and desires of the planning commision. If you live in the suburbs you don't want a slaughter house or rendering company next door. RJT> that I'd probably have to look into before I bought any property, as RJT> well as perhaps becoming a little familiar with the local political RJT> process to get a feel for whether they'd ever be likely to move in RJT> that direction. A good plan. RW> Your planning department may raise an eyebrow if you propose to RW> build a house in the shape of a grain silo! :-) RJT> Right up the road from here there _is_ a silo that's been remodeled I've seen a short one out in the sticks that was remodeled into a small motorcycle shop; it came out pretty well. RJT> into living quarters, I've driven past it on many occasions and have RJT> often been tempted to stop by and see if the people living there were RJT> up to a chat about the place. That's a bit different than *building one* from scratch in among custom "standard" (loose description) designed homes. I can tell you that in my neighborhood a church got approval to build a temporary "tent" structure while the permanent sanctuary was being built. It was allowed under terms that it would stand only one year--that was five years ago and they have yet to even submit plans for the permanent building, let alone break ground. This tent appears to be white insulated vinyl and could be a permanent structure if allowed by the Planning dept. Unfortunately, it is an eyesore that we now have virtually no recourse in having removed. RJT> I don't know that I'd care for all of those stairs, though. Me either! (G) TTYL Russ ... A liberal's generosity is limited only by your income. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The HobbyBoard - Sacramento, CA. 916-332-5823 (1:203/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300009 Date: 08/31/96 From: TOM KOSTEN Time: 10:45pm \/To: T OWEN (Read 2 times) Subj: looking for the sche T Owen wrote in a message to Tim Hutzler: -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Tim Hutzler <=- TH> If you want 'emergency' power, then don't expect the wind to TH> help, unless your expecting tornados and hurricanes. TO> TO> Tornados and hurricaines aren't good for windpower, as they TO> can damage the equipment. But wind power along ridge tops are just fine if the proper design is used, I have since found the plans that are designed for the coastal range in California. ( winter wind speeds of 25 to 80 MPH ) will produce 220 vac. I believe that gale force winds start at 74 MPH Sincerely, Tom Kosten --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Entered by KE6HME Cobb Mountain, Lake County CA. USA (1:2003/7.59) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300010 Date: 08/31/96 From: TOM KOSTEN Time: 10:57pm \/To: CHRIS HARPER (Read 2 times) Subj: LEDS (Help Chris Harper wrote in a message to Ivy Iverson: CH> On Tuesday August 20 1996, Ivy Iverson of (1:154/170) wrote CH> to Arlo Hagler: CH> I used to have several LEDs mounted to things like the CH> bottoms of the legs on the bed, desk, etc..., in my bedroom, CH> and ran them off a 9V battery so I wouldn't have to turn on CH> the light for trips to the bathroom, etc..., at night. CH> Worked real well unless someone left something laying around CH> on the floor. CH> One question though. Do LEDs ever "burn out"? I've yet to CH> hear of it. Anyone know the average life span? I would also be interested in knowing if they burn out. I would also like to know how many you can hook up to a 12-volt battery or even a 9 volt battery for starters. Sincerely, Tom Kosten --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Entered by KE6HME Cobb Mountain, Lake County CA. USA (1:2003/7.59) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300011 Date: 09/01/96 From: JIM DUNMYER Time: 09:52am \/To: ELVIS HARGROVE (Read 2 times) Subj: BUILDING CODES > -> EH> We don' got no esteenking basements in OUR part of the worl'. > -> After seeing the video of cyclones in TX and OK, I'd seriously > -> consider one! > > Just goes to show what YOU know! You go in a basement the freaking > HOUSE falls on you. We dig our storm cellars way out in the yard, > away from EVERYTHING. A friend's wife was so scared of tornados that he bought a new concrete septic tank of at least 1000 gallon size, dug a hole, lined it with plastic, and buried the tank. He might have coated the outside of the tank with some sort of waterproofing, too. The entrance was above-ground, in fact the tank was only a bit more than half-buried, there was a mound over it. This could be made into a "root cellar", thus serving a dual purpose, especially for Home Power folks who depend on this sort of food preservation in lieu of refrigeration. Septic tanks are relatively inexpensive, and there's any number of people who install them in most areas. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300012 Date: 09/02/96 From: DAVIS ROBINSON Time: 05:00am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 2 times) Subj: LOOKING FOR THE SCHE Hi there! -> For regular manufacturing, yeah, but I was actually wondering about -> simple way that a mounting could be arranged for such stuff as a thin -> an individual could do, without a whole lot of special tools or equi -> Somehow the idea of wiring up a harness for this sort of thing doesn -> have a whole lot of appeal... Seems to me that it would be a simple matter to do something like this out of wood or thick plastic with a drill press and a tablesaw.... a couple of passes on the tablesaw to make a good groove on the back to run wires, then set up a jig on the drill press to make the holes evenly spaced. Drill the holes the same size as the LEDs so they would be held in place by friction and then wire them up. Tuck the wires in the groove and then attach the strip to the baseboards in your house or whatever. Later! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: WILDMAIL! v4 - Rewriting the Book on Mail Tossing! (1:14/648.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD300013 Date: 09/03/96 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 11:49am \/To: TOM KOSTEN (Read 2 times) Subj: LEDS (Help CH> One question though. Do LEDs ever "burn out"? I've yet to CH> hear of it. Anyone know the average life span? TK> I would also be interested in knowing if they burn out. As I said in an earlier post, I've seen comments to the effect of an average lifespan in excess of 50 years... This depends a lot on how much current you're putting through them. Put too much and the lifetime will get *real* short! TK> I would also like to know how many you can hook up to a 12-volt TK> battery or even a 9 volt battery for starters. I wouldn't recommend the use of a 9 volt battery for these at all. Figure that those are made up of _six_ cells and you can see how small they are... Those batteries are made for very low current draw for the most part. As for a 12 volt battery, it depends. Figure a typical LED has a forward voltage drop of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.8 volts. This means two will be 3.6, three will be 5.4, four will be 7.2, five will be 9.0, six will be 10.8, and so forth. It would seem that seven of them would work fine on 12.6 volts, but that's probably not the case. You _need_ to have a current limiting resistor in there to set the current for the rest of the circuit, as otherwise very small variations in voltage will give you very large variations in the current drawn, with likely disastrous results. Typically, a forward current of 20 mA is a pretty good figure to work with. Assuming that you want to run them off a "12v" supply (which may actually run anywhere from 12 volts even to maybe as high as 14 volts) you need to have a resistor in there that's going to limit the current to that level. Say, for example, you're running six LEDs and want to set the current at 20 mA. The voltage drop across the LEDs will be about 10.8 volts, and that leaves anywhere from 1.2 to 3.2 volts to drop across the resistor, giving a value of 160 ohms at the maximum voltage down to 60 ohms at the minimum. Or, assuming that you _do_ use that 160 ohm resistor, the current may go down as low as 7.5 mA, not what you really want. Another possible problem with regard to connecting a bunch of them in series is that you're likely to see different brightness levels and also variations in voltage drops in a string of them like that, depending. If you start out with an "assortment" from radio shack this is pretty well guaranteed. If, on the other hand, you start out with a bag of 100 or more from a wholesaler where they're all from the same manufacturing lot, then the odds are better for you having fairly closely matched devices. What I'd do is use a 5 volt regulator chip (got bunches of them anyway), and a single LED or maybe two of them at a time. This gives you pretty well constant current even with input voltage variations... --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 272 HOME POWER Ref: DD400000 Date: 09/03/96 From: CLOYCE OSBORN Time: 11:16am \/To: JIM DUNMYER (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: BUILDING CODES > -> EH> We don' got no esteenking basements in OUR part of the worl'. > -> After seeing the video of cyclones in TX and OK, I'd seriously > -> consider one! > > Just goes to show what YOU know! You go in a basement the freaking > HOUSE falls on you. We dig our storm cellars way out in the yard, > away from EVERYTHING. JD> A friend's wife was so scared of tornados that he bought a JD> new concrete septic tank of at least 1000 gallon size, dug JD> a hole, lined it with plastic, and buried the tank. He JD> might have coated the outside of the tank with some sort JD> of waterproofing, too. The entrance was above-ground, in JD> fact the tank was only a bit more than half-buried, there JD> was a mound over it. In this part of the country, you can buy prefabricated storm cellars (we called them "hidey holes") and the contractor will bring a back hoe and install it for you. Some of them get pretty sophisticated, with battery powered forced ventilation and lights, etc. They're quite comforting during the Oklahoma spring time. JD> This could be made into a "root cellar", thus serving a JD> dual purpose, especially for Home Power folks who depend JD> on this sort of food preservation in lieu of JD> refrigeration. Ours was always used to store canned fruits and vegetables (actually home preserved in glass jars). We kept a kerosine lantern or two and a supply of kerosine down there to provide light and also kept a chopping axe and crow bar just in case the tornado blew something over on top of the door. That way you could chop or pry your way out. The door was always facing north or north east because tornados usually move in from the south west and you had less chance of having the door torn off or being trapped inside. Regards. Cloyce. --- EZPoint V2.2 * Origin: Res Ipsa Loquitur, Indian Territory (1:147/34.13)