--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400004 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 03:52pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: sloppy scripts -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- JP> No, it is to SST in Mules. You've made it clear that you won't beat JP> me to that object since you don't like to mega-jettison and you don't JP> try for 5 points. BB> *You* have said you SST'd as soon as you get to 2000 xpoints, i.e., BB> you first start in freighters. So let's not waste time bickering BB> on such trivialites as ship types. I've NEVER said I wait for 2000 points. You've even attacked me for saying that I usually push it and start stealing 65 holds with 1800 exp. But who expects you to remember anything. Where's the quote? BB> Secondly, no, I don't like megajettisoning, and when I do, I don't BB> try for five points. You are nowhere close to proving that going BB> for five is worth the time and extra expense. To do that would BB> require posting proof. Not a likely occurrence. Nobody said anything about going for 5 points when mega-jettisoning. I go for 5 when SSTing. BB> As long as I steal more than 28 holds, I make more than you when BB> you trade. The risk of being busted is very low (2 percent); if BB> a trader is busted, it's not going to be for very many xpoints. Nobody has ever claimed you wouldn't make more money, I've said it doesn't matter and a turn wasted stealing 28 holds can be better spent. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400005 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 03:56pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: hitting whatever -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- BB> @MSGID: 1:357/1 8851E04C JP> Look at the heading, Bil. This discussion was about hitting the 5 JP> points, not just getting two. Nobody said the roundoff came into play JP> for 2 point trades. As usual, you twist the line to make your mistake JP> go away. BB> You look at the heading. If you want to move the discussion to BB> hitting five points, that's fine with me, but you are going to BB> have to post the math. Of course, I didn't change the heading. Just another example of your lies and misinformation. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400006 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 03:58pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: pk4 -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- BB> I am glad you've conceded your PK4 ineffective in POP games BB> (versions 3.+ to 3.04). Bugs usually do screw up a game. BB> But I'd prefer you not to fall back on the name-calling. Sure, BB> I know and you know you can call me anything you want without BB> intervention from the co-sysop, but it is pretty clear I can't BB> clear my throat. So I'd ask you to defer to a sense of fair play BB> rather than Rule. Lessee, I was ordered to quit calling you mr bil and I did. I even went the extra step of capitalising Bil. I thought you might like the moniker Briliant. Sorry I offended your thin skin. I'll be kinder and gentler, here's a hankie. BB> Ways have been posted-- even ways to improve your PK4. You just BB> refuse to consider them. Ways have been posted to reduce the BB> inherient disadvantages in the game, such as picketing. You refuse BB> to consider them. Ways have been posted that sysops can set up the BB> game to give people who play good a more even shot. You refuse to BB> consider them. The only thig posted that *might* work was posted by Joel Downer, but according to you he's dead and doesn't matter. Nothing you have posted has had the slightest impact. The reason I don't consider your rantings is that I've already tried and discarded all of them. While they might sound good, they just don't work in a real game. Even a planet farmer like Caroline has to admit that the PK4 destroys any game plan that comes up against it. Picketing is futile because by the time there are enough pickets the universe has already been explored. As to your last lie in this paragraph, I've refered many times to the fact that Joel posted settings to make the game more even, but even he said that the evils would still have the advantage. It's YOU who refuse to face facts. BB> POP is dead for now but a more refined version may be back as a BB> sysop option. What I find shocking is that you would even speculate BB> that your buddy GM will get out a bug-free product. My "buddy"? I've been one of GM's harshest critics, and have even been told by the moderator to back off. Unlike you, I complied. BB> It is clear you can't comprehend a universe that is properly BB> picketted. Everytime you bounce an eprobe off a picket, you lose BB> $3K. GURU cannot eprobe around every picket every time, and every BB> picket will have a shadow sector (or several) behind it. Pickets BB> cost the picketter nothing, and several hundred pickets will leave BB> several hundred sectors and shadow sectors you can't eprobe and BB> many you can't eprobe around. And I've posted to you that I don't check out every blocked sector. I've also pointed out that if I'm making 1.5 million per day my partner can spend all his turns clearing sectors and we'll still outearn 5 goodies trading and scattering fighters. BB> And (in my experience), eprobers can't help but want to go check BB> out the sector where the eprobe was destroyed. If enough sectors BB> are otherwise blank, there is no special notice paid to those BB> eprobes that bounce off sectors of import. BB> If several traders picket, I doubt you'd bother eprobing. Except BB> that it is another step in your list, and you'd get stuck, not BB> noing what to do next. I'd just e-probe faster and earlier. Don't worry, I always know what to do next. Usually it involves stealing someone's planets. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400007 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 04:14pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: not so sloppy scripts -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- JP> <---> Then you buy exp mega-jettisoning because you don't have to jP> have the huge cash outlays that you do to bust planets. When you jP> are in the SST level, you bust planets for exp. BB> I am not going to guess at what you mean by SST level, since, no BB> matter what I infer, you insist you meant something else. Do you BB> mean SST as soon as you get 2000 xpoints, i.e., in freighters, or BB> mules, which, two messages ago, you claimed was your goal, or in BB> CX's, which you seem to be talking about now? Where's *your* quote on this, Bil? I've *always* said that I usually start stealing with 65 holds at 1800 exp. That means I SSM a few times in *one* Freighter, then buy another and SST until I have enough money to buy the exp to use Mules. So somewhere around 4500 exp I start Rent-A-Mule. What's so difficult about this that makes you so perplexed? Nowhere have I ever advocated using CT's in open space. They are only used in closed sectors. Where's your quote to prove I was stupid enough to advocat CT's in open space? Just another example of your twisted lies and misinformation. BB> If triple-trading is available, but often it is not practical. So BB> traders have to skip to the next step, e.g., megajettison. To pay BB> for mj'ing, stealing is more profitable then trading. You have made BB> it clear that you steal at 65 holds-- so it's a matter of degrees, BB> not a matter of concept. I steal earlier than you, especially when BB> triple trading requires turns to even find on top of the trades BB> themselves. And you waste turns, thus money. Mega-jettisoning is not that expensive. That's why we do it. JP> Oh, I forgot. With your EDO you've got all those extra credits JP> to use busting planets. Yeah, right. BB> EDO was good for pre 2.08-- when traders got all their turns when BB> the extern was run and when you could get -one million alignment BB> for exactly nothing. I don't know why you keep bringing it up now, BB> in versions 3+, long after it is not effective, when you refused to BB> even consider it when it was. EDO was just another example of the fact you don't understand evil at all. Another example is the claim you can get -one million alignment for nothing. Each turn costs money. Each cuss costs exp that must be bought back. I bring it up as just one example of your bad advice and lack of knowleDge of evil play. Stick to talking about something you have knowleDge of, like dead bugs. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400008 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 04:24pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: why pop games are fun -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- BB> The POP bug would be another way to play the game, if it was PC was another way to play the game. Mega-fighters and Mega-Sheilds was another way to play the game. It really speeded up planetary invasions when you could go in with 32,600 fighters and shields. Saved a lot of time. Maybe we could go back to the timetable GM put in the first Betas for building planets. You could build all the way to L-5 in one day (L-6 wasn't available then). Why wait all those weeks to have a maxed out planet? These are just other ways to play the game, why not make them a choice? Why stop at your favorite bug, let's have PC, Mega-holds, Mega-fighters, Mega-shields, and instant upgrades back. You whine when I bring up your EDO because it's dead, but you still praise a dead bug. Maybe you need a bug to play effectively, but some of us don't. BB> The POP game produces 1000's of FTs a day-not millions- and, to BB> make billions of credits a day, you have to trade off the FTs. If BB> you trade off too many, then other traders will take away your BB> planets, and you will no longer make billions per day. It is still BB> the same game, only accelerated. Bil, I was talking about PC making millions of fighters and billions of credits per day. Your pathetic little bug is nothing compared to PC. BB> But you wouldn't know, you have even tried it. BB> I have played and think it makes for a more exciting game. For the BB> first time, traders can choose to play either good or evil, but BB> still have an more or less equal shot at winning the game. Traders BB> spend more time preparing and actually invading and less time BB> running trading and SST scripts, something, I know, you have a BB> prefence for. Right. Just like your capture-the-flag game, it's no longer Trade Wars. Of course, with PC we didn't have to spend any time trading either. Just move fighters and shields and money from one planet to another and *BOOM*, they were doubled. So the first one on the day the first citadel was built could just go out and destroy everything--planets, Stardock, Terra, everything. You'd have loved it, no doubt who won one of those games. Sometimes we'd just destroy every port. Nope, no doubt there. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400009 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 04:40pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: not so sloppy scripts BB> I did not suggest -not mj'ing-. I said I *prefer* one to the BB> other. I would like to spend *as little time* as possible mj'ing. BB> And I certainly *did not say* that I would delay buying xpoints BB> until I can afford to bust planets. BB> But I am as certain that the will set in the west that I can look BB> forward to you claiming that I did say it. The only thing missing BB> will be the quote. Forthcomming. BB> At least with planet busting, you have debris, or, if you are BB> planet farming, potential. So you advocate wasting turns by moving away from Stardock to bust your planets? So that you can blow up the little guys who don't know to scan before they move? My targets are planets, not helpless beginners. Whatever floads your boat. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400010 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 05:14pm \/To: MARK MATTOX (Read 0 times) Subj: not so sloppy scripts -=> Quoting Mark Mattox to Jim Pittman <=- MM> I'm an old player who even played 1.0 for a short time in my MM> first game, then played until the newer versions came out. I haven't MM> played in awhile, but, am back now. I know triple trading from long MM> ago, never really like it too much. And I think planet busting is just MM> building planets and destroying them immediatly for more negative MM> alignment. Didn't like that too much either. Personally I would just I remember you from Fishnet. If you'll read the posts I sent from Mike Magero you'll better understand the reasons for triple-trading. While you do make less money, you build exp faster. It's just an early way to buy exp, which is the whole purpose the first few days. MM> go for destroying aliens of higher rank ;and ferrengi and players MM> latter on for experience and alignment. However, I have no idea what I don't advocate wasting turns and fighters on aliens the first few days, there are no higher ranking ones unless the Sysop puts them in. As for Ferrengi, I never attack them until I've stopped regeneration, don't like the grudges. In fact, I'll usually turn them loose again if an enemy has killed a lot of them. Also, during the time you triple trade and mega-jettison, or even bust planets, the other traders don't have enough exp to be worthwhile. My first goal is to get to 1800 exp where I'll start stealing, then to 4500 exp to use Rent-A-Mule, then to capture Ferrengal (this is where Mike and I differ), then to build a closed sector and have enough exp to SST in CT's. MM> mega-jettisoning is? Also, it looks like all the old bugs like MM> corp-mega holds and stuff don't work. I do know what SST is if that MM> is steal transport trade, though I'm not sure my formula's are still MM> valid, 10x for holds and 3x for credit robbing? Mega-jettisoning is finding a class 7 planet and buying a few holds of each product and dumping them into space. You'll usually get at least 5 exp per turn doing this. How many holds? GURU uses 14 ore, 8 org, and 3 eq. Bil advocates saving a few credits by wasting turns tinkering with the amounts. Since money is not that important at the mega-jettison stage, I'll stick to the easy way. ... Hud - World Tour - 1998 --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400011 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 05:02pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: sloppy scripts -=> Quoting BIL BURTON to JIM PITTMAN <=- Here's one of the quotes you wanted. Unlike you, I didn't even edit it or the heading. BB> I guess you somehow read into what I wrote that I favored running BB> megajettison by hand. Read it as many times as it takes to get it BB> right. I don't run megajettison often, and when I do, I don't do BB> it very long. If I were compelled to run megajettison, and I had BB> a comm program that ran scripts, I would take the time to BB> change the numbers when they started to waste money or at least BB> consider the posibility. I've seen all the Moses movies and have BB> yet to see 14/8/3 on the back of the tablets. ... BB> I don't think so, Jimbo. --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400012 Date: 04/03/98 From: JIM PITTMAN Time: 05:07pm \/To: CRAIG HEALY (Read 0 times) Subj: Ferrengal Ships and Alien Ships -=> Quoting Craig Healy to David Mccartney <=- CH> Another difference for the 3.0x game. Hmmm. Seems like a silly thing CH> to remove, considering all the other things that seem more pressing. But quite typical of the GM approach: If it ain't broke, fix it. ... Hud - World Tour - 1998 --- Cyber Dragon BBS! 423-821-6034 * Origin: Cyber Dragon BBS,home of the one and only cybernetic dragon! (1:362/923) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 124 TRADE WARS Ref: F4400013 Date: 04/03/98 From: MICHAEL MUTZ Time: 11:08pm \/To: BIL BURTON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ferrengal ships and a > MW> Hmm so you can curse the grimy trader eh? > MM> > MM> Yep, no big deal... > MW> How many times do you get to and how low does your alignment go... > MM> > MM> Only once I think, then you got to quit & go back to'em to do it > MM> again. -1 per time. > Not anymore. Went about the same time as (repeatedly) > tossing > CITs into space. Works but once. > > ... Bil Burton, a.k.a. =: barefoot =: Corvallis, OR Well, so much for using that to quickly lower your alignment. It's been a while since I played a bad trader. --- RemoteAccess 2.52+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23)