--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEI00007Date: 10/13/96 From: STEVE QUARRELLA Time: 08:46pm \/To: ALL (Read 4 times) Subj: Who Echo Guidelines 1/2 The International Doctor Who and British Science-Fiction TV Conference Last updated: 3/9/96 Why are we here? ================ Of course, the main focus is upon the long-lived British SF program Doctor Who, but discussion of other popular British SF shows such as Red Dwarf, Blake's 7, The Prisoner, The Avengers, et al, is not only permissable but also ENCOURAGED. These are some great programs, so spread the word! Also permitted here is discussion of British comedy, with the sole exception being Monty Python's Flying Circus. Monty Python is a great show, but it is very very likely that the echo would be deluged by Python-wannabes if the how was included here. Besides, there is already a backboned echo called MONTE [sic]: That echo will whet the appetite of those of you who are eager to impress the planet with your knowledge of the Latin bits from "The Holy Grail." In the meantime, by all means feel free to discuss shows like Are You Being Served?, Black Adder, Benny Hill, or whatever else you've seen on PBS or BBCx. Some hints and tips, as well as some rules and regulations ========================================================== FIDONET, FREQ, POINT, NODE, NODELIST: These are terms that apply to the computer network that carries this and many other conferences. Ask your sysop to clarify these terms for you if you think "FREQ" refers to streaking through the streets of Dallas. NETMAIL: You may often see references to netmail. Netmail is private mail between X system and Y system, and is seen only by you and your target. Ask your sysop about the availability of netmail on the system to which you belong. Note that this conference is an ECHOMAIL conference, meaning that each and every message is "echoed" to other nodes all over the world. Private mail should not be entered into the conference unless you want the entire planet to see what you're doing. :) Note that personal chit-chat should ALWAYS be done through private netmail: Nobody in the echo really cares that you're asking if X user was the person with whom you went to Miskatonic U back in '36. MODERATION: Let's leave all affairs related to the moderation of the echo in NETMAIL. If you have a problem, a question, or a suggestion, by all means, contact me. I'm open for discussion. If you do not have access to netmail, please either call the BBS from which I post or leave me a way to contact ou, and I will try to do so. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MODERATION OF THE ECHO IN THE ECHO. The BBS from which I post runs 24 hours per day, and the number is 214/412-8457. If you should route your netmail, be aware that Fidonet may at it somewhere along the line. If you are unable to connect to this system for whatever reason, please host-route any netmail through 1:124/0. WEIRD ASCII: The use of visible (control) characters ASCII 32 and below is a Bozo no-no in this echo because you could conceivably jam someone's software somewhere. Use of eight bit characters above ASCII 127 are permissable, provided that they aren't used to create wasteful quote boxes or multi-line signatures. And please, let's keep those long-winded Internet-style signatures to a minimum, eh? Folks, if you want to use those, go to the Internet. Keep your signatures short (three lines at the very most), and bear in mind that if someone needs to know how to reach you on the Internet or on whatever service, they can ASK you how to get there. Bear in mind also that this echo is being shipped overseas, and someone other than you is paying to pass that excess baggage around. HANDLES: I have no problem with handles so long as they aren't used for malicious purposes. However, I wouldn't mind seeing you aliased folk sign your messages with your real name every once in a blue moon so I know who you are. --- GoldED 2.51.A0901+ - Spank Our Wombats! * Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEI00008Date: 10/13/96 From: STEVE QUARRELLA Time: 08:46pm \/To: ALL (Read 4 times) Subj: Who Echo Guidelines 2/2 QUOTING: This is important, as this echo is distributed overseas to areas outside of North America, on someone's long-distance nickel: We are urrently seen in the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. Because of this, it's important to not be shipping excess baggage around, so here are two guidelines for quoting: 1) When you reply to a message, please use the quoting feature of your BBS to quote a few lines of the original poster's message so as to refresh his or her memory about what you were talking. Remember that some folks carry on multiple conversations, and when you out of the clear blue sky say "Yeah, I've got some information on that...want me to dig it up?", the target probably has no idea about what you're talking. If your BBS software has no quoting feature, please say something like "Yo! We were talking about X or Y" and then add your text. 2) Overquoting is a big problem out in Fidonet. There's no need to quote an entire message, because by doing so, you're wasting bandwidth and you're sending a new copy of the entire message around the world. Remember that someone somewhere pays for this, and we need to trim the excess fat out of our messages so as to keep those costs as low as possible. Please be certain that you do not quote the tagline (those cute 'bumper sticker' messages at the bottom of a message), the tearline (You'll see one next to "Via Silver Xpress" in some messages), or the origin line (You'll see the text "Origin: ". Neither do you need to quote any lines that say "X said to Y on such and such date." In the case of tearlines and origin lines, besides being unnecessary when quoting, these may bomb someone's software somewhere. In the case of taglines or headers, these are plain unnecessary. Just quote whatever you need to jumpstart the other guy's memory. As a general rule of thumb, IF YOU'RE QUOTING MORE THAN A HALF SCREEN FULL OF TEXT AT A TIME, YOU'RE OVERQUOTING: Try to include more of your own message than the other guy's message. TAPE SWAPPING: I have no problem with tape swapping, but I prefer that the finer details of tape exchanges be taken to netmail if you're going to be wheeling and dealing for a while. If you don't have netmail access, either leave a number or an address at which you can be reached, or make your deal short and sweet ("Here's what I want, here's what I'll send."). However, let's obey the law here: You may ONLY exchange tapes that were made from off-air broadcasts, and you may NOT make a profit from it. This means that you should not be offering to dupe THE TROUGHTON YEARS for anybody, but if someone needs a copy of INFERNO for his collection and you were fortunate enough to tape it from PBS or whomever, you may talk business. Offers for recompensation as far as tape costs and shipping and handling are acceptable. I have no problems either with "I'm looking for _____" messages so long as you don't get ridiculous about it. [Also, FYI, the CBS/Fox videotapes contain copy protection, so if you're going to be duping those behind closed doors, your copy will look terrible.] Note also that disk swaps should follow the above criteria. TREK TALK: OK, OK, so you think the Borg remind you of the Cybermen or the Daleks. You know that Patrick Stewart once expressed an interest in playing the part of the Doctor. There are some DW references in a few of the Star Trek novels. If you can carry on a conversation about these issues while sticking to the WHO-related angle of things, beautiful. But let's avoid the Trek angle: There are Trek-specific conferences for this kind of discussion. VHS/Beta Wars: This is totally off-topic. ENJOY THE ECHO: Unless you're here to be a jerk, please don't take any moderator messages personally, and of course, there's no need to reply to them. There are some exceptionally wise people in this echo who can just talk your ear off about certain British SF-related topics, and this is a great place to chat about how much you enjoy X or Y program while learning a bit about it. You might even find out about some OTHER "must see" program: Many people have become hopelessly addicted to Red Dwarf after becoming involved in conversations about it here in this echo. And of course, the usual Fidonet rule applies: Do not easily annoy, do not be easily annoyed. Be sure to treat others as you would have them treat you. FLAMING: Excessive foul or obscene language, ad hominem attacks, or "My show's better than yours" rants will not be tolerated. Wanna flame? Go to the BITCH echo (Or whatever they're calling it these days.). If there's some guy who's bugging the pants off of you but not breaking any rules, you may wish to consider using a "twit filter" if you're using an offline reader. Of course, there are those of us who may take a jab at a pal of ours every so often...this is fine, but if it gets out of control, I'll step in. FRAZER HINES: The spelling of Frazer Hines's first name is "Frazer", without an 'i' like "Frazier". FINALLY: Leave all moderating to the moderator. If someone breaks an echo rule, let ME take care of it. Personally, "Sysop-Wannabes" become tiring after a while, so put away your ducks, torches, and pitchforks, and do your damnedest to resist the temptation to get in a jab before I see the message. If someone comes out and posts fifty ads for Evil Ed's BBS, you're only going to make things worse by saying "You jerk!" out in the echo, because if everybody does that, you've got more "You jerk!" messages than WHO-related messages. If you must reply, PLEASE reply in netmail, and be kind: Mistakes happen. Rest assured, though, that I will track things down and wake up the sysop of the offending node. If someone comes out and says "Doctor Who is a show unworthy of my piranha! LOVE BOAT RULZ!", -ignore him or her-. I'll take care of him, and again, you only add to the bandwidth by saying "You jerk!" And for Pete's sake, don't go out into the LOVE_BOAT conference and say "Doctor Who rulz!" to get even with the poor bugger: He's got enough problems as it is. Let me answer all test messages. Some poor soul will occasionally have his system set up incorrectly, and you'll see some sort of "This is a test. Am I getting through, Myron?" message. Please ignore these, although you have my blessing to send NETMAIL to the effect of "Yes, you're being seen in Tanzania!" so he doesn't think he's beaming his messages to the moon. Likewise, please ignore messages that are obvious garbage, or that are improperly placed. Of course, there is no Rule #3. And as I said, enjoy the echo! It's yours...I'm just the cat-herder whose job is to keep discussion reasonably on topic and within the bounds of good taste and common sense. :) Mary Sinclair, Moderator WHO "la mod" Co-starring: John Judge, Zone 2 Moderator (2:254/151) Steve Quarrella, Retired Old Fart Moderator (1:124/9005) Zone 3 Moderator position is open Special Guest Stars: Dave Macfarlane (2:259/41), who is providing the Zone 2 <> Zone 1 link with my system (1:124/9005). Lewin Edwards (3:634/396) who is providing the Zone 3 <> Zone 1 link with my system (1:124/9005). Henk Wolsink (Zone 5 ZC) who pulled us through the Z5 zonegate into Africa. --- GoldED 2.51.A0901+ - Spank Our Wombats! * Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEI00009Date: 10/12/96 From: IVAN SZE Time: 04:55pm \/To: COWGIRL (Read 3 times) Subj: DROP DROP ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1 * Origin: Cowgirl's Rodeo *Fido* ->Hub400<- (1:250/401) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEI00010Date: 10/12/96 From: STAR HAWK Time: 06:22pm \/To: JOE SIEGLER (Read 3 times) Subj: Pickyness "Hey, look what spun out of the Time Vortex from Joe Siegler..." [> Laurence Taylor [> I think this was on Concord in "Time Flight". [> Joe Siegler [> I dont' think it actually MATERALIZED in there. It [> was placed there by hand (that wonderful scene of the TARDIS prop [> being carried by a forklift is in here). It took off from there, [> but if memory serves, it never actually materalized (sp?) there. It was originally placed aboard with a forklift, but during the story the Doctor's TARDIS left and returned under its own power. Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster --- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93 * Origin: Hawk Haven Point TARDIS Service (1:362/708.6@fidonet) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEI00011Date: 10/11/96 From: STAR HAWK Time: 03:18am \/To: JON ROTH (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Red Dwarf: Series VII "Hey, look what spun out of the Time Vortex from Jon Roth..." [> Christopher J_wood [> Red Dwarf only really took off once it [> started to mix the Steptoe in Space comedy with Sci-Fi spoofs. [> Jon Roth [> Would you please elaborate on that? Im not sure [> what you mean by "Steptoe in Space comdey." For us 'Yanks' it would be "Standford & Son" in Space. ["Steptoe & Son" was the original Brit production that was redone in the States as "Standford..."] Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster --- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93 * Origin: Hawk Haven Point TARDIS Service (1:362/708.6@fidonet) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEJ00000Date: 10/14/96 From: JOE MASON Time: 12:35am \/To: JAMES DIXON (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Are the Borg a Cyberm "Re: Are the Borg a Cyberm", declared James Dixon from the Vogon ship: JD>I don't see where or how the Borg can "develop" beyond different Borg JD>costumes, ships, and what have you... Then again one could say the JD>same for the Cybermen (though they have changed a great deal--too JD>much--over the years)... Well, we saw the Borg behaviour changing throughout their appearances - the first time they totally ignored the humans on the Enterprise, the second time they tried to communicate to them directly, the third time they actually seemed to have some individual free-will (Hugh), and the fourth they had emotions. I thought it was made very clear that the Borg constantly stole technology from other races and "evolved" as they did so. Their varying behaviour seemed like it could be explained very well by I think that the Borg are one of the best thing Star Trek's ever done - I'm not a Trek fan (used to be, but gave up because of the hype), but the Borg are one of the few things that still get me excited about Trek. I have this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that the upcoming movie will ruin it for me, but I'll just have to wait till the time comes. I don't think the Borg are really a cyberman rip-off at all. Some of their mannerisms were maybe stolen off of the various Who villians (Daleks and Cybermen) but the underlying concept of the way they "evolve" was, IMHO, done very well (and possibly better then any of the Who races, except maybe the Daleks). Of course, I've never seen any of the old cyberman episodes, so I don't know how well they were fleshed out at the beginning - I'm only judging by the later ones, which as you said weren't done as well. Joe joe.mason@tabb.com Shad Valley Carleton '96 -- Coming soon: "In the End", a work of Interactive Fiction -- -- More about the 1996 IF Contest at rec.arts.int-fiction -- -- Oct. 15 at ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/competition96 -- (Ye CMPQwk 1.42 9550 Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/10 * Origin: Timmins Area Bulletin Board (1:225/401) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEJ00001Date: 10/14/96 From: JOE MASON Time: 12:35am \/To: STEVE QUARRELLA (Read 3 times) Subj: RD VII??!? "RD VII??!?", declared Steve Quarrella from the Vogon ship: SQ> CD> No, sadly, this is not. He was in 4 episodes and is interested SQ> CD> in doing all 8 episodes in series 8. SQ>How do they explain Rimmer's absence? He doesn't die or anything, SQ>does he? Since Rimmer's a hologram, couldn't he just be "turned off" for a while? (Only seen a few episodes, so I don't know the technical stuff behind the hologram.) Joe joe.mason@tabb.com Shad Valley Carleton '96 -- Coming soon: "In the End", a work of Interactive Fiction -- -- More about the 1996 IF Contest at rec.arts.int-fiction -- -- Oct. 15 at ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/competition96 -- (Ye CMPQwk 1.42 9550 Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/10 * Origin: Timmins Area Bulletin Board (1:225/401) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEJ00002Date: 10/12/96 From: JAMES DIXON Time: 02:44pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Yet Another Dalek Timelin Jimmy Dee's last attempt at a... DALEK CHRONOLOGY <> 1770 - "Genesis Of The Daleks" (Assuming that the War the Thals spoke of occurring 500 years ago was the same one in which most of the Thals--and their technologically advanced dome--were wiped out in. Counting back from "The Dead Planet.") 1963 - "Remembrance Of The Daleks" (Given date.) 1984 - "Resurrection Of The Daleks" (Given date, more or less.) {2000 - Dalek invasion of Earth aborted - 1st attempt at mining the core, at least according to the Fourth Doctor in "Genesis Of The Daleks."} ? - "Power Of The Daleks" (The Earth colonists know nothing about Daleks and, going by the novelization, set sometime before "The Dalek Invasion Of Earth." The recurring dates of 2020 or 2220 I can find no evidence of. It should be noted that the Daleks are using modern casings.) 2166 - "Day Of The Daleks" (Some 200 years in the future. The Daleks are using modern casings and rudimentary time travel. A Dalek's comment about altering Earth's history and the presence of Ogrons with 26th Century uniforms may suggest that these Daleks originated in the future, perhaps ensuring a successful 22nd Century invasion. In any case, the timeline was wiped out by the Third Doctor.) 2170 - "The Dalek Invasion Of Earth" (Approximate year, in any case sometime after 2164. The Doctor explained to Ian that "The Dead Planet" was a million years in the future--far off the mark. Unless the Doctor actually meant a Hundred years in the future, in which case it fits quite well. Read on!) 2270 - "The Dead Planet" (In the following story "The Edge of Destruction" the Doctor stated that this adventure was in the future--after 1963--and thus used the Fast Return Switch in an attempt to get the travelers from the future to the past. Dalek casing are identical to those in the previous story with the addition of discs to allow for mobility. See Doctor Who Monthly regarding the theory of a "new society" developing on Skaro...) (Note: Vicki is from 2493 and her only recollection of Daleks is their 22nd Century Invasion, suggesting a low in Dalek-Earth relations.) 2540 - "Frontier In Space" & "Planet Of The Daleks" (The Doctor said this was sometime in the 26th Century. The year 2540 pops up unofficially, it's as good as any other date I suppose. The Thals state that their first encounter with the Doctor in "The Dead Planet" was "centuries ago.") ? - "Death To The Daleks" (Note the Daleks' recognition of the Third Doctor.) 2670 - "Destiny Of The Daleks" <> (Davros is repeatedly stated as having been dead "for centuries"--Not millennia but Centuries--suggesting "Genesis" was less than 1,000 years ago. A fact commonly ignored by many historians it seems...) 2760 - "Resurrection Of The Daleks" (Base Timezone) (90 years after "Destiny Of The Daleks.") 2860 - "Revelation Of The Daleks" 2963 - "Remembrance Of The Daleks" (Base Timezone) (The Seventh Doctor said the Daleks originated 1,000 years in the future.) ?- "The Chase" 4000 - "Mission To The Unknown" & "The Daleks' Masterplan" (Given date...at least for "Masterplan.") {17,000 - Daleks defeated by a rocket fleet from Hyperion, according to the Fourth Doctor in "Genesis Of The Daleks."} ? - "The Evil Of The Daleks" (Supposedly the last Dalek story. "Greater Good" is the Humanized Daleks? Davros is the Emperor Dalek? You tell me...) (Continued, next message...) * OLXWin 1.00a * Columbia (NCC-621) Revere (NCC-595) Entente (NCC-2120): ST-TM --- WM v3.10/93-0747 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685 (1:2604/309) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEJ00003Date: 10/12/96 From: JAMES DIXON Time: 02:57pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Daleks, 2... OK, that's basically what I chopped it down to after going through my half a dozen pages of typed tech notes of the critters... I could've thrown in lots of additional notes on their design changes and all, but it would've gone beyond 1 posted message and screwed things up a bit... I typed this up some years ago... Post up your Questions and Comments... I Know you've got Tons of them... For instance, almost invariably all other timelines place "Genesis" thousands of years BC for some reason, and this contradicts the later statements (the 500 year old war in "Dead Planet" and Davros being dead "centuries" in "Destiny")... I think all in all these estimated dates fit flawlessly... Let me guess your next question, probably first one... WHY's those primitive static-run subterranian dwelling Daleks of the first story "The Dead Planet" placed so far down the line even after their Invasion of Earth? Well, I went by the on-screen info and my date came close to that in an old issue of Doctor Who Monthly which gave I think 2190...and an interesting story about how a split in Dalek society occurred (City Daleks wanting to remain on Skaro vs. more ambitious slimeballs who wanted to take to space--this is also backed up by the F**A role playing game booklet)... A "new society" developed on Skaro with the City Daleks eventually stripping themselves down to the simple "floor circuit" city power source and, after a time, believing that the Thals had all been exterminated... The Daleks in "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" are Identical to these Daleks except for the dishes on their backs--probably energy receptors... No, I don't buy Peel's Dalek chronology... And don't give me this "official" BS either--just because it was published in that Dalek book co-written by Terry Nation and has "official" on the cover means Nothing... I've been over this same stuff with Trek till my brain rotted... If it were "official" then maybe "Remembrance of the Daleks" wouldn't have contradicted it left, right, and center... Speaking of that story, yah, it does give me a headache... Assuming the Doctor was right about the Daleks originating about a 1000 years in the future, I can't explain Skaro's sun blowing up...certainly NOT in 1963 as this would totally screwup future Dalek history (not to mention lend them a Big Hand in neatly exterminating the Thals!)... Take yer pick from this list of theories... 1. It was never really specified When Skaro's sun went nova, not in 1963 but perhaps in the Far Distant future (i.e. long after "Evil of the Daleks")... 2. We know from the first story that Skaro is the 12th planet out from its star... Considering that the Daleks possessed the technology to remove a planet's core and configure an entire world into a self-guided vessel as far back as c. 2160, it's not too far-fetched to assume that they modified Skaro with this feature... An exploding star still explodes at lightspeed--given intersteller FLT drives and radio, the homeworld may have had sufficient warning to break out of orbit (it's got to be one of the outer planets anyhow, right?)... A wacky theory but worth noting... 3. Jean-Marc Lofficier's idea of two Skaros: the original and "New Skaro"--which I think is also pushing things a bit... If anyone wants me to put my little textfile on Dalek designs (and my prior attempts at Dalek timelines), just say so and I'll dump it in the upload section of the BBS... If it wasn't for "Remembrance" I'd have placed the "Davros Era" long after "Evil" and "Masterplan" considering the newer (dare I say Advanced?) technology--Daleks don't degravitate themselves and go chase you up stairs very often... I guess after the Movellans and friends, their resources drained, they were forced to rely upon old basic casings, tried and true treknology... * OLXWin 1.00a * Constitution Class Heavy Cruisers: NCC-1700 thru NCC-1711 --- WM v3.10/93-0747 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685 (1:2604/309) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 270 DR WHO/BRIT SCIF Ref: DEJ00004Date: 10/12/96 From: PAUL COTE Time: 04:34pm \/To: JOE MASON (Read 3 times) Subj: Who Killed Kennedy? > Definitely - completely blew me away, even though I'd never > seen any of > the Pertwee episodes it mentioned. That's the great thing about the book, you only need a smattering of Whovian lore to understand it. > I was faced with a big shelf containing a whole bunch of > NA's, a few > MA's, and Who Killed Kennedy. I picked it even though it > looked kind of > strange, because I couldn't see anything to help me decide > between the > others - they ALL looked good! I'm sure glad I picked the > one I did... I agree with you there. :) Do you know if there is a book detailing everything in the Who universe? I'd like to get more acquainted with this diverse and strange universe that our rogue Time Lord calls home. :) P.C. ... The castle of aaaaaaaargh --- FMail/386 1.22 * Origin: Night Scented Stock:"We Let The Weirdness In..." (1:153/822)