--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00001 Date: 01/10/98 From: CHRIS LORD Time: 07:20am \/To: SHELIA KING (Read 0 times) Subj: Repost of message Sunday September 28 1997 20:14, Dan Triplett waxed eloquently to All.......everybody!: DT> Hey....it's too quiet in here! Help, I am going through DT> withdrawal! Don't be insulted or take personally what follows. I am reacting to an documentary I saw last week. DT> Lets get a good topic going. Hmmmmmm any ideas? DT> DT> Whole Language (again?) Is this a worn out subject or is it that teachers don't fully understand it? DT> Invented Spelling? An important part of the writing process in a truly whole language programme. Most teachers I know who stuff this up haven't understood how or where teacher intervention fits in the process. Down under, here in New Zealand, we have a publishing company called Wendy Pye Limited. Wendy's books are published with the Sunshine label and used extensively in this country and overseas to teach reading. Last week on New Zealand Television there was a documentary in which a critique was made of the Wendy Pye readers. The opponents of her books were American and Australian teachers. It seems to me that the criticism was that the books were not sequenced in such a way as to enable a teacher to teach using a phonics method. I was amazed that no New Zealand teachers were interviewed. Furthermore I was astounded by the fact that the teachers interviewed wanted a prescriptive phonics curriculum which told them to use which book when. Why not use a whole language approach??? Surely we are not the only teachers in the world who use a child centred and needs based approaches to teaching. The Wendy Pye readers are leveled from an emergent level through early reading to fluency across some 7 or 8 levels. The vocabulary in the emergent texts use a basic high frequency words such as; I, am, and, the, come, look, for, here, is, me, he, she, you, are, in, went, school, go, on, up. (These words will be those first use in their own writing) The pictures provide cues for the interest words. As students are exposed to print and the conventions of print; ie that print carries a message and that the message is consistent, concepts about directionality, learning to look at print and use letter cues, the student will begin to learn to read. It should also be noted that the classroom programme including oral and written language needs to have a lot of alphabet work where students are exposed, immersed and engage in recognising the letter sounds that correspond to the hierglyphics that we decipher as letters which form words. The teacher needs to know the respective texts and should be skilled enough and discerning enough to identify the appropriate texts for the needs of the student to facilitate the process. Phonics while important is only part of the decoding of text. As students gain control of language, learn to read for meaning, to self correct to use cross checking strategies including the visual features and sounds of words and the list goes on, they become confident and learn to read. IMHO it takes about 3 years for the average student to become a fluent reader. Beyond that the biggest thing is the development of the students knowledge and experience of the world so that they are able to comprehend what is contained in the print they read. It would naive of me to try and explain all that is involved in the reading process to educators many of whom will have considerably more experience than me but it is also astounding that there are teachers who don't have a clue about the process. The fact that their students learn to read is more good luck than good management. Well Dan, if this doesn't stir some debate then it will be time to check if we are still alive. Cheers Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------- ** email address Fidonet SysOp ** ** Chris.Lord@matiere.hn.pl.net 3:774/1000 ** ** Matiere Fido/UUCP Gateway Matiere Cyberspace Connection ** ----------------------------------------------------------------- ... Forecast for tonight: Dark --- GoldED 2.51.A1026 UNREG * Origin: Matiere School, King Country, New Zealand. (3:774/1000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00002 Date: 01/11/98 From: CRAIG SCHROEDER Time: 07:42am \/To: CHRIS LORD (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: What is Education? 2/ Hello Chris, CL> "the transmission of what CL> is worthwhile" is not just a transmission of whatever those CL> in power might like to think worthwhile, it is the CL> transmission of a commitment to the pursuit of truth, and to CL> the quest for the best standards of reason for seeking the CL> truth. This, in turn, is to be interpreted in terms of CL> traditional ways in which the truth has been pursued, CL> which comes out as something like the traditional academic CL> disciplines. Truth is of value for its own sake. It needs no CL> further justification than that it is a good in itself. For CL> Peters, this is what gives education its intrinsic CL> value. I'm a product of the 60's (HS grad in '69) and I distinctly remember the first history teacher that I had who actually attempted to teach "the truth". We studied the Civil War by reading letters from soldiers to their loved ones and read the New york Times for the days that we were studying. That light in me went on for the first time that I could question the homogenized, processed history that had been taught to me up to that point. Schools had shown me distortions of the truth until my fortunate crossing with this man, but ultimately, school provided the window to peer through and create my own clarity and interpretations... This fellow was not extreme or a "flake", but I remember him being ostracized by other staff and knowing he wasn't accepted as "one of them". He ultimately left teaching and developed curriculum materials for a publishing company. I'm sure his vigilance there has had a positive effect on historical accuracy! Regards, -=Craig=- craigclu@bigfoot.com --- wsOMR 1.20b Atilde~The~Hun...He left his diacritical mark on history * Origin: The Final Frontier - 301.369.0166 - bbs.ffbbs.com (1:109/566) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00003 Date: 01/11/98 From: SHEILA KING Time: 03:31pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: From The Moderator -> That puts things in a different light.. So long as -> this doesn't devolve into a flame fest at teachers' -> expense, it'd be fine... Like I would allow that? C'mon! -> SK>I am currently moderating k12.ed.math. It first became moderated -> on Aug. SK>1, 1997. Check it out. You will see NO SPAM and very few -> annoying posts. SK>Almost EVERYTHING is constructive and on-topic. -> (BTW, K12Net is looking SK>for a volunteer to moderate -> k12.ed.science. You wouldn't be interested, SK>by any chance, Ron?) -> -> I'm up to my ears, I'm afraid... Trying to integrate -> a new set of computers into my science curriculum, -> all this academy stuff, and on and on... I hear you, loud and clear. I'm too busy to do what I'm doing already! Sheila King --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00004 Date: 01/11/98 From: SHEILA KING Time: 03:34pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Educator Guidelines -> If one considers hunting as well as target and -> self-defense, an AWFUL lot of households have some -> type of firearm in them.. MOST might be a stretch, -> nationally, but there are certainly areas of the -> country where almost ALL households have firearms, -> and others where there aren't many at all. It is the word "most" that set of the sirens when I read it. Granted, things vary from region to region. Of course, I'm a SoCal girl. Living currently in Los Angeles county, but not by much. I still consider myself an Orange Countian, which is where I've lived most of my life, and where I work. My sister, who went to University of Utah, told us how on the first day of deer hunting season, the schools are closed. They know that no one will come to school, so why have school in session? I'm sure that well over the majority of households in that area have a gun. Like you say, I suspect it is a regional thing. Sheila King --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00005 Date: 01/11/98 From: SHEILA KING Time: 03:38pm \/To: JOHN DONOHUE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: EDUCATOR Guidelines -> You don't know any policemen? Sheriff's deputies? Assorted other -> LEA's? Security personnel? Active duty military? What are LEA's? No, I know no such persons personally. Of course, I guess I could count the security personel who are employed at our school. But I wasn't counting mere acquaintances when I made that remark. I meant people whom I really know and consider to be among my circle of friends. -> Have you specifically asked everyone you know "Do you own a gun?". -> Made an exhaustive search of every home you've been in? Of course not. That's why I said "to my knowledge" in my original post. It's just that, if over half the households in the U.S. have a gun, I would think that even without my running such a survey and search, I would have discovered through everyday conversation that I know someone who owns a gun. I'm willing to concede that I'm wrong. I was just surprised by your claim, and that's why I asked for a supporting source to back up your supposed statistic. -> www.nra.org in the 'fact sheets' section puts firearms owned in the -> U.S. at 230 million, held by 65 million owners (based on info from -> the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms - BATF). But, how many of those owners reside in the same household? And how many households are there? Sheila King --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00006 Date: 01/11/98 From: SHEILA KING Time: 03:39pm \/To: KEVIN CROSBY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: EDUCATOR Guidelines -> I'll have to dig through my files section for the text file to get -> the exact report name and date, but it was a U.S. Dept. of Justice -> report which stated that an estimated 68 million households in the -> U.S. had a firearm of some type. How many households nationallY? -> BTW, for those not familiar with "Eddie Eagle", the program boils -> down to "If you see a gun, don't touch, leave the area, tell a -> responsible adult." -> -> SK> Thanks for the synopsis. I would've had no idea otherwise. -> -> Perhaps this points to the source of the problem....ever hear "guns -> kill" or "a -> child is killed by a handgun every xxx seconds"? The emphasis seems -> to be on villifying the tool, not on education on proper and safe use -> of the tool. OK, my ignorance of the particular name of a gun education program run by the NRA is evidence that people blame guns and not lack of education for deaths? C'mon! That's ridiculous. Sheila King --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1G00007 Date: 01/11/98 From: SHEILA KING Time: 03:44pm \/To: TERRY BOWDEN (Read 0 times) Subj: From the Moderator -> Wave, wave, I'm here, Sheila! Howdy Terry! -> re: Gating ... -> SK> to an Internet mailing list. Maybe within the next couple of -> weeks I SK> will be able to start experimenting with that. -> Great idea, so long as it is a two<->way gating! -> Moderated, of course. Of course. Those things go without saying. But, I think I said them in some previous messages I posted anyway. -> Cheers, and all the best with schooling and the 8-month old. -> (Thinks - does Sheila juggle, too?) No, Sheila doesn't juggle. And Sheila is an eternal optimist who chronically underestimates the amount of time it will take her to get new projects up and running. Can we change the "few weeks" to a "few months"? I see all my free time is gone, now that school is back in session after Xmas. Sheila King --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: F1H00000 Date: 01/11/98 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 09:46am \/To: CHRIS LORD (Read 0 times) Subj: What Is Education? 1/2 CL>Hello All! CL>The following material was prepared by my colleague and friend Graham CL>Oliver http://www2.waikato.ac.nz/education/edstudies/oliver/education.htm CL>My motivation for posting arises from views espoused by CL>some (not necessarily here) about the role of the school CL>and what constitutes education. CL>I thought these notes might provide a base for the start of some CL>discussion. CL>Something we would want to take very seriously indeed might CL>be missing from the efforts we are most used to as CL>"educational". In fact when some vital elements are missing, CL>it can be argued that much of so-called "education" is CL>actually an abuse of the learner which does serious harm. CL>There are three main forces at work here: CL>We grow up and go through a schooling system, usually CL>regulated by the State, called an "education" system. CL>People who get a lot of this system are often called CL>"educated", and we are widely encouraged to get a lot of it CL>ourselves, mainly so that we can get a good job. We may not CL>always enjoy this (and many of us don't succeed at it). We CL>might think that it could be done much better. But it is so CL>much a part of our world that we take its existence for CL>granted, and rarely seriously question what it is for. I'm not sure I accept that last.. Seems to me that we do a great deal of questioning as to what it is for and what we wish it to accomplish... CL>The State -- even the democratic State -- has an interest in CL>our compliance with its authority and administration. Which is why, traditionally, schools/colleges have been considered the enemy of autocratic governments. Political unrest is a characteristic of colleges, in particular... CL>"Education", as a word, implies positive value. When a CL>teacher is said to be "educating, this can usually be CL>interpreted as praise. If someone is said to be "well CL>educated", this normally conveys that, at least here, they CL>have acquired some valuable qualities. CL>The combination of these three forces means that, on the one CL>hand we are not very critical about the sorts of things CL>that "education" is applied to, and on the other, because CL>the word conveys something positive, it is useful to slap it CL>on any learning process we want other people to think well CL>of, simply because of the positive aura which the word will CL>present to us. It has ideological, or manipulative value. There's one questionable leap here; that "we" are not critical about educational subject matter, a conclusion for which there are AMPLE counter- examples. Certainly it has the potential to be manipulated... CL>The characteristics of CL>"training" will be explored more fully in a separate note, CL>but clearly training is much more narrow in scope and is CL>very much applied. It is instrumental, not necessarily CL>worthwhile, and the role of reasoning in it is weaker. In CL>fact it need not entail reasoning at all. In contrast, CL>education implies something about breadth of knowledge and CL>understanding, is intrinsically valuable, and while it will CL>not involve the cultivation of reason at every point, reason CL>is essential to it. I'll buy that... CL>... continued inthe next message ... Ok... Me too.... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * For a good time, call 1-800-3IBMOS2 --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Reading Room (1:272/160)