--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200012 Date: 12/29/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 12:34pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Spelling By Routman SHEILA KING spoke of Spelling By Routman to CARL BOGARDUS on 12-27-96 SK>What do you think of the multi-age classroom? I think I recall you SK>being in favor of that idea. I am!! (he said butting in to another's conversation) Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ Ĵ --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: R-Squared BBS (1:352/28.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200013 Date: 12/29/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 12:37pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: Aft News RON MCDERMOTT spoke of Aft News to CHARLES BEAMS on 12-27-96 RM>CB>SAT SCORES UP; SHANKER CREDITS MORE RIGOROUS COURSES RM>CB>SAT scores rose modestly in 1996, an improvement AFT president RM>CB>Albert Shanker attributes to a renewed emphasis in schools on the RM>CB>academic core curriculum. The average math score rose two points, RM>CB>to 508, while verbal scores were up a point, to 505. RM>This, of course, is silly... A 1 or 2 point change is just RM>background "noise", as it only represents something like a RM>0.2% - 0.4% change - Random fluctuation..... Beats dropping.......How significantly do individual scores have to improve for the overall score to show any improvement? Hey....maybes it just the beginning (of a continued rise??) Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ Ĵ --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: R-Squared BBS (1:352/28.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200014 Date: 12/29/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 12:40pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: Mentor RON MCDERMOTT spoke of Mentor to ANDY TIMMS on 12-27-96 RM>AT>thanks and a merry christmas to you RM>To you as well, and a Happy New Year to all here! RM>AT>what do you teach and where? RM>Physics in a public high school in Newburgh, New York... Great...now you tell me.....I've been arguing quanatative research with a physics teacher.....ok...the book's here....I cracked the cover, and ....it will be a while.... You don't happen to play chess do you???? Ŀ Ŀ Ŀ Ĵ --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: R-Squared BBS (1:352/28.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200015 Date: 12/29/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 07:49pm \/To: WESLEY JONES (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Exit Exam??? WJ> WL I've seen this approach fail too often. The result is often WJ> "teaching WJ> WL to the test." WJ> WJ> It seems only lazy or unethical folk would "teach WJ> to the test." If they are prone to that attitude WJ> just imagine how they might teach without any testing. This is a major issue: if public education does as poorly as it does _with_ a low level of accountability, what would it do with no countability? --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200016 Date: 12/29/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 07:54pm \/To: DALE HILL (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Preventing Drop-outs DH> MS> MS>Studies show that the GED gets its holders no higher pay. DH> DH> I simply wanted to point out that it was a significant difference in DH> both the number of jobs and the base starting hourly wage -- enough DH> to DH> make you look twice. The other facinating (but understandable) bit DH> of DH> info from the survey was the emphasis of the "soft skills" by DH> employers; they want employees who can show up for work on time, are DH> honest, can work with others, present a clean and neat appearance DH> etc. I don't doubt that the GED has this benefit to workers in some regions, particularly workers in some age groups. But the study said it had _no_ benefits _nationwide_ to those not using the GED to get into postsecondary education. The emphasis by employers you mention on the "soft skills" does not surprise me, either. It reminds me of when the Marines started requiring a HS degree for enlistment, saying that it was not for any specific knowledge but as proof that the recruit could stick to something (the soft skills). --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200017 Date: 12/29/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 07:59pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Where We Stand CB> Many people believe that getting tenure guarantees a teacher a CB> lifetime job, even if the teacher's subsequent performance is lousy. I can refer you to "Thompson vs. Bd. of Education", the definitive tenure case in this state in which the state supreme court said just how lousy performance will be accepted before a tenured teacher can be fired. (292 N.C. 406 or 233 S.E.2d 538). It is almost impossible to fire any tenured teacher pursuant to the standard in that case. CB> So they listen sympathetically to calls for abolishing tenure. But CB> tenure does nothing of the sort. It simply guarantees that there CB> will be some form of due process before a teacher can be dismissed. Tenure laws and their interpretation by the courts also say what the standards for retaining people will be: how bad is bad enough to get fired. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200018 Date: 12/30/96 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 02:57am \/To: FRANK TOPPING (Read 4 times) Subj: Ebonics Update Frank Topping On (29 Dec 96) was overheard to say to Matt Smith FT> highly dedicated teachers trying to improve *their* communication for FT> results we all believe in. ... what would those results be in this case Frank? Further expanding the gap in the name of ethnic identity? Perhaps you should speak with educators in traditionally Black universities to get a real feel for what those folks think about street dialect and standard English. You are correct in saying it's a political issue - this is not, however, an election year so the odds of getting fed bucks to support this bit of madness are very slim. ... Those who follow like sheep are bound to get fleeced. --- PPoint 2.02 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200019 Date: 12/30/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 10:10am \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 2 times) Subj: Mentor AT>what do you teach and where? RM>Physics in a public high school in Newburgh, New York... DT>Great...now you tell me.....I've been arguing quanatative research DT>with a physics teacher..... Not to mention the scientific method... Sorry, I thought you had been around here long enough to know what it is that I teach..... ;-) DT>ok...the book's here....I cracked the cover, and ....it will DT>be a while.... GRIN..... DT>You don't happen to play chess do you???? Not with anything approaching regularity, but have you ever known a physics teacher who didn't? I have about 6 books on my shelf from the days when I played at the game... ;-) ___ * MR/2 2.26 * WIN95: Start me up,...you can make a grown man cryyyyy! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Reading Room, Woodstock NY, 914-679-4602 (1:272/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200020 Date: 12/30/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 10:42am \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 2 times) Subj: Math Facts DT>I know that many kids memorize facts...but can they apply them? Two different cognitive levels... Reaching the first doesn't mean you reach the second... DT>But I see many kids, even 5th graders, still struggling with DT>some basic math concepts. I am left to wonder why? 1. Many kids simply don't CARE why, they just want a nice, easy formula to follow that ALWAYS works. I see it every day in physics, and I'm sure Sheila does in math. It's much easier than investing the effort in understanding. 2. Many kids simply don't work hard enough, or long enough, or with enough concentration to "get" more than a rudimentary understanding of the concepts. 3. Some teachers have given up trying for true understanding because so few of their kids (in the teachers' mind) are going to "get" it anyway. 4. There IS the possibility, largely ignored these days, that some kids are not going to "get" the higher order understandings because of a lacking in their internal wiring. DT>The question I have is...if we are after understanding, and a DT>child isn't getting it (let's say many aren't getting it) then where do DT>we go from here? One question that comes to mind is "What kind of DT>mathematical foundation has been laid for this kid? Perhaps kids who DT>don't understand some basic math facts need a bit of "foundational" work DT>as well? Does this make sense? Yes, but is it possible that despite ALL efforts, some kids are simply not going to "get" it? Along the lines of my discussions with Carl, there seems to be this underlying assumption that everything hinges on what WE do, rather than on what the KIDS do... Teaching we control; LEARNING is pretty much out of our hands as long as kids have the choice to learn or not... SK>The reasons why they aren't learning the facts is because they are SK>not getting enough help on the material, and that includes help in SK>the home from the parents. With deference to Sheila's point, this is ONE reason, and extending it from "help" to "direction of effort" is another, but there is still the matter of the kids DOING the learning.... DT>This has to do with learning how to study and memorize (which DT>actually take time and effort). DT>And all too often this important item is left out. Very often in our discussions, for example ! DT>I believe that many kids exit the learning mode once the DT>dismissal bell rings. Many never ENTER it ! ___ * MR/2 2.26 * "OS/2 is THE operating system of the 90's" - Bill Gates --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: The Reading Room, Woodstock NY, 914-679-4602 (1:272/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: E1200021 Date: 12/30/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 08:01pm \/To: FRANK TOPPING (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Ebonics Update FT> MS> The Department of Education publicly stated that FT> MS> the reason it will not fund any bilingual program in FT> MS> Ebonics is that Ebonics is not a separate language like FT> MS> Oakland designated it, but just a dialect of English. FT> FT> The other night Nightline had a PhD on who made the point that the FT> linguistics academicians differ amongst themselves as to what is a FT> "language" and what is a "dialect". ...the "last word" on that, FT> according to my understanding of the gentleman, was that it was FT> often a political decision. ... A _black_ reporter in the Chicago Tribune said that to be "separate languages", the two must be "mutually unintelligible" (i.e. being fluent in English does not mean you can understand Chinese, so they are separate languages). As the reporter then said, most white people can understand Ebonics, if with difficulty. As the reporter also said, Ebonics having a somewhat-distinct pronunciation, vocabulary, and grammar (all based on English words) no more makes it a separate-from-English language than is a Southern accent. We talk with a distinct pronunciation, too, and we also have distinct-to-Dixie phrases. FT> MS> The federal courts will ultimately have to decide FT> MS> whether Ebonics is a "language" for purposes of FT> MS> qualifying for bilingual-education funds, and with the FT> MS> "right" judge I think it could happen. FT> FT> ...by "right", could we surmise that you mean "left"? Yes. Judge-shopping in "political" cases is routine. FT> I've done things with Oakland Unified School District and have found FT> them FT> to be extremely advanced, progressive and professional. As in football, the score says it all. The Oakland school board justified the decision to adopt Ebonics by quoting statistics showing how poorly the Oakland schools are performing now. Extremely advanced? --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6)