--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300007 Date: 10/02/96 From: LISA MCINTOSH Time: 04:09pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Ann Landers letter -=> Quoting Bob Moylan to Lisa Mcintosh <=- BM> Lisa Mcintosh On (19 Sep 96) was overheard to say to Sheila King LM> Yes, it is a federal law but just because the parents request testing LM> it isn't mandatory. If the teacher doesn't feel it necessary then a LM> panel must review the case. BM> That is almost correct. Anyone with a vested interest in the welfare BM> of the child can make a referral to the child study team (called by BM> different names in different states) if they think the child has some BM> difficulty that is impacting on her/his ability to learn. The BM> teacher doesn't have to agree or disagree for it to go to child BM> study. Most referrals come from teachers. However, when a teacher BM> makes a referral parental permission is _required_ by IDEA prior to BM> the school undertaking _any_ formal testing or evaluation. LM> (This prevents students from having to go through all these tests LM> just at the parent's whim.) BM> I won't say it... I won't say it... I won't sa... I won't... I... What did I say??????? Your comment flew completely over my head.... sorry...... What I was referring to was the rash of people who asked for testing when it became common knowledge that some ADHD children are eligible for a SSI check. My son's teacher implied that this was my motive for testing my son. I did not even know about the SSI thing at the time. She completely denied that she had suggested that I take Travis to see the pediatrician. BTW, we have not & will not apply for the SSI. Also, Travis no longer takes medication. Yes, he is easily distracted but in a one to one situation, I don't find it necessary to medicate him. LM> It is when the teacher suggests testing that the school is LM> responsible for the testing. BM> See above..the school system is ALWAYS responsible for the testing. BM> If/when the school system refuses to do so (and it happens a lot) BM> parents are free, as always, to go elsewhere. _If_ the outside BM> testing/evaluation reveals a problem that impacts on educational BM> needs then the school system is required to pick up the tab. What BM> usually happens is the schools will then do their own testing. _If_ BM> the results are the same then the child receives necessary services. BM> _If_ there are conflicting results it goes to arbitration; a LONG BM> process that is not always resolved satisfactorily to all parties and BM> often winds up in state/federal courts. I'll concede you are right... I'm not a lawyer, teacher or school administrator. All I know is what I was dealing with several years ago: A teacher who wanted a child medicated, did not know the law, and then proceded to LIE when confronted.... (I do not think all teacher's are like this. I admire those who value what's important for the child and work tirelessly in an overworked and underpaid position.) --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: Gator's Junkyard * Anniston, AL * (205)235-2900 (1:3657/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300008 Date: 10/02/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 09:23pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 1 times) Subj: Where We Stand CB> We Americans tend to expect very little of our CB> children. We expect them to CB> be spoiled and cynical. We allow them to be CB> precocious in some ways and CB> babies in others. Then we criticize them for being CB> shallow and selfish. The CB> students from Quincy should make us think again. CB> They were not moved by CB> Iqbal because he had the glamor of a rock singer or CB> sports hero or movie CB> star--malnutrition had stunted his growth and his CB> back was crooked from CB> bending over the loom. They recognized his heroism CB> and responded to that. CB> Our young people want to do more; they want us to CB> expect more of them. The CB> Kids' Campaign to Build a School for Iqbal shows what they can do. Thanks for posting the whole story. The last section should hit every teacher and parent hard - we do not expect as much from our youngsters as they are capable of doing. What a challenge! Here is a perfect community project-student driven, student managed, students believing in what they can do, all inspired by a true hero. This is cooperative learning in its finest. Do the students need to be graded on this - no, because the accomplishment goes far beyond an A on a report card. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300009 Date: 10/02/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 09:45pm \/To: ERICA LONG (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Whole Language 2 EL> language. Most early childhood teachers can tell EL> which children have come EL> from a language conducive environment when they EL> walk through the door on EL> the first day. They'll be the ones who know their EL> name, colours, can count EL> and have been read to and conversed with. EL> I think Dan and Ruth and I have more than EL> adequately explained how we use EL> phonics as part of a whole language environment. I think Charles and I are troubled by the lack of connection between the students at the age you teach and the 10-15 year olds we are used to seeing that lack skills they should have mastered. I think there needs to be more early intervention than we currently have for the language limited student. There are programs forthem. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300010 Date: 10/02/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 08:46pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 2 times) Subj: The Real Story 2 CARL BOGARDUS spoke of The Real Story 2 to DAN TRIPLETT on 09-29-96 CB> DT> effort is quality). CB>I think that is excellent, but to me the transfer from primary to CB>intermediate, (K-3 to 4-6 for those in other countries) is not CB>happening for a large section of the population - why? I think CB>Charles is arguing about the same thing? CB> CB>Why are so many learners lost at that age? CB> CB>Why does the two year spread you notice become six years or more at CB>Fifth grade? Something is not right-what do you think is wrong? Good question. One I don't have an answer for. I have heard from middle-school teachers that 60% of the kids entering 6th grade are not reading at grade level. When I asked what they meant by that I did not get a definitive answer. When I asked where the 60% figure came from I did not get an answer except "That's what I heard." One fifth grade teacher I talked to told me today she has a student reading at a 2nd grade level. He has a "I don't care about anything" attitude and she wondered why our system would allow him to just go on to the next grade level when he cannot function at that grade level. It is frustrating to hear that many children are reading below grade level. I don't know how true this is because I have not seen any data but Im sure there are many who do read below grade level. I am also sure there are many who read at grade level or above. What has made the difference? I think home may be a factor. I wonder if another factor is that (some schools? many??) don't operate with exit outcomes in mind. Isn't a good question "What should an exiting (grade level) look like.?" "What are the necessary skill levels for an incoming (grade level) in math, science, reading, writing, speaking, listening?? Perhaps there is a greater need for connections from grade level to grade level? (As in top-down design of goals and objectives) What are districts doing to address some of the apparent skill deficiencies they are seeing in some students? Does this problem exist everywhere? Is is exaggerated? What are the _accurate_ statistics that could help define the problem? Homework time.... Dan CMPQwk 1.42 445p A student who changes the course of history is probably taking an exam. * ++++++ * _ /| ACK! \'o.O' / =(__)+ U --- GEcho 1.11+ * Origin: The South Bay Forum - Olympia, WA (360) 923-0866 (1:352/256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300011 Date: 10/02/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 08:55pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Spelling... BOB MOYLAN spoke of Spelling... to DAN TRIPLETT on 09-30-96 BM>Dan Triplett On (28 Sep 96) was overheard to say to Bob Moylan BM> BM> DT> I think you missed my point entirely..... BM> BM> Not at all, or at least no more than you are missing what I've been BM> saying, what Chuck Beams has been saying and one or two others. It BM> appears that you and I, at least, will have to agree to disagree. No....I don't think we can leave it at that. I don't think we simply disagree....I think we just don't fully understand each other's point of view. At least I didn't get the connection you were trying to make. If I fully understood it, then perhaps I could disagree with you more intelligently . As it is...I'm a bit confused I thought Chuck was saying that children shouldn't be allowed to write until they have some grasp of the fundamentals. He likened it to learning a sport...getting some instruction before proceeding to play the game. However, writing in a pre-school or kindergarten classroom a is _very_ different thing and although the analogy is interesting, it doesn't fit here. At least it doesn't fit for me. Dan CMPQwk 1.42 445p Use the Force, Luke, Don't give in to the DOS side.- ObiWan Kenobi * ++++++ * _ /| ACK! \'o.O' / =(__)+ U --- GEcho 1.11+ * Origin: The South Bay Forum - Olympia, WA (360) 923-0866 (1:352/256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE300012 Date: 10/02/96 From: DAL JENCSO Time: 09:58pm \/To: RUTH LEBLANC (Read 2 times) Subj: Quote w/o comment RL> Do all first year teachers there receive the same salary or RL> does it vary according to which school they teach in or which RL> area? Here there is some variation in pay according to the RL> school board you are employed by. Mine is one of the top RL> paying ones but I live in a BIG city with a high cost of RL> living index. :( I believe we are also the biggest school RL> board in the province. All teachers are paid under the same salary schedule. It is determined by education and years of service. My point was that highly educated experienced teachers are often not offered jobs unless they are willing to start at a lower place on the salary scale. If I transfer to the adjacent county, I would lose credit for 16 years of experience. I live in a "rural" area with a high cost of living... * RM 1.31 3319 * --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GI * Origin: BBS Networks bbsnets.com 301-863-5089 (1:2612/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE400000 Date: 10/03/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 10:53pm \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 1 times) Subj: The Real Story 2 DT> I'm beginning to identify some things I do that you might consider DT> "drill and practice" (under your definition) a DT> repetition of a skill. DT> Isn't that a good teaching practice anyway? (repeating a skill) I DT> always "revisit" a concept many times because I know that children DT> aren't going to get it the first time. We don't go DT> over it 10 times in DT> a single sitting but we do go over it many times DT> over a given period. DT> When the concept is first introduced we "visit is" DT> frequently. After a DT> while it is less often. It is interesting how all children can remember a commercial jingle or song they hear over and over. Recently we were told at an inservice that advertisers know it takes 20-35 repetitions of a commercial to fix it in the mind of a child. In some ways, I feel in the middle of your discussion with Charles, I agree and disagree with both of you. Perhaps it is the wide age range I have taught. I still have troubles with the way WL is being taught here, many of us recognize that it is being blamed for something that is really out of the control of teachers -poor training and poor support economically. As a little question, do you consider reading a skill? --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE400001 Date: 10/03/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 11:16pm \/To: DAVID RAASCH (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: school help 1 >As for the modem not dialing out, that is not >unusal, most of these office >phone systems are of poor quality and voltage >settings are not correct for >the line to recognize the modem. I have tried >dialing out and in on a line >I have access to, no go! I did some research and >found that if the voltage >for the ringer and pickup are not set correctly-no communication. Hmmm, I was tired--this is wrong, it should have read "picking up when dialed" Glad you found out about your problem. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE400002 Date: 10/03/96 From: RICK PEDLEY Time: 09:12pm \/To: ERICA LONG (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: whole language 2 -=> Quoting Erica Long to Charles Beams <=- EL> Isn't a dictionary the best spelling book? But you'd have to know it was "phoneme" and not "foneme" to find it in the phirst place :) But to answer your question, no, _spelling_ books are the best spelling books. I can still remember the red spelling book I learned from in grades 1 and 2, 20 new words memor- ized each week. The teacher would dictate the list every Friday and then mark them. Worked for me, and to varying degrees most others in the class. Those raised on phonics who still can't spell today likely wouldn't have done better with any other method. fRenz don lit thur Frenz yooz th "holE wurd" uproche coffeerp@adan.kingston.net ] COFFEE MUG SOFTWARE ] ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: CrossRoads * Kingston, Ont. * (613) 545-3745 (1:249/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DE400003 Date: 10/03/96 From: RICK PEDLEY Time: 09:12pm \/To: RUTH LEBLANC (Read 1 times) Subj: Quote w/o comment -=> Quoting Ruth Leblanc to Dal Jencso <=- RL> I can't start at a lower position on the salary ladder. This is the RL> lowest for me as a category 4 teacher. Teachers are slotted into 4 RL> categories here which are decided by QECO - that is the committee that RL> makes these decisions. As a teacher with a 4 year Honour B.A. and a RL> B.Ed I automatically go into category 3 but since I have an additional RL> four years of college and Special Education qualifications I got bumped RL> up into category 4. It is not at all uncommon for many graduates here RL> to be category 4 teachers. I have 0.1 years of experience which counts RL> for nothing and puts me at the bottom of the ladder in my category. I RL> couldn't be placed any lower - it would be against the law. But all that extra education may work against you, in that boards will shop around for less qualified teachers who'll do the same job for less salary (well maybe not as _good_ a job, but boards don't care about that). It's really the same sort of thing Dal is talking about (haggling with teachers over how many years experience they'll be paid for), but it's done more discreetly; a teacher almost never finds out exactly why he or she wasn't selected for a position, or at least not the real reason. coffeerp@adan.kingston.net ] COFFEE MUG SOFTWARE ] ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: CrossRoads * Kingston, Ont. * (613) 545-3745 (1:249/1)