--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100016 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:21am \/To: RICK PEDLEY (Read 4 times) Subj: Ap computer science -> They also sell a pretty good kit too, "Electronics Fair" or something -> for about $35 CDN. You can make about 150 devices from the breadboard -> and other parts included (LED, photocell, speaker, lights, switches, -> etc.) Oh, ok. I've seen these kits. We got my son a radio kit from Radio Shack a couple of years ago. That gives me a better idea of what to look for. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100017 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:29am \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Whole Lang. 2 -> As you point out, she reads faster silently - comprehension goes much -> higher during silent reading, the mind can understand faster than the -> lips can articulate. Clearly this is true. -> Oral reading is great when a child has pre-read the story and has -> practiced reading. But for comprehension, silent reading is much -> better. Even the child's lips should be monitored for movement during -> silent reading as it will slow the comprehension down. True, that when one is teaching silent reading, it seems lip movement should be out. I only had my daughter reading aloud to us, because it was part of the homework assignment from her teacher and I was supposed to sign off that we had done this together (I do believe there were some benefits to her reading aloud to us. 1) it was an enjoyable activity that we shared together. 2) by reading with her, we emphasize that we find reading important. 3) she often self-selected books that had words she didn't know in them. I have found that my two children will often read stories silently and not ask about words they don't know and hence misunderstand some parts of the story. But when we read aloud together, we notice immediately that she doesn't know certain words and we can discuss that together.) There were a few occassions when, in spite of the fact that she was supposed to read aloud for homework, I asked her to go read silently by herself. Then, afterwards I would ask her a few questions about what she had read, so that I would know she had done it. She does a LOT of silent reading. This morning when I came upstairs, there she was on the sofa, reading _The Minpins_ by Roald Dahl. This summer, she has read several books by R.L. Stine (in the Goosebumps series, mostly, I believe), _The Black Stallion_ by Walter Farley, _Matilda_ by Roald Dahl, just to name a few. These she does on her own initiative and completes each book in only a few days. So, I'm not real worried about her silent reading ability. Do you think that a student who has a good silent reading ability should also have their oral reading skills cultivated? Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100018 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:31am \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 4 times) Subj: AP Computer Science -> Radio Shack has some electronic experiment boards - although not -> breadboards, they can be used as such. OK, so what is the definition of a true "breadboard". Since these kits are "not breadboards but can be used as such". I'm at a disadvantage in this conversation, and no one has clearly explained what these things are, although with the reference to the Radio Shack kits, I think I have a passable idea. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100019 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:33am \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 4 times) Subj: Whole Lang. 2 -> Unless the idea is that without single-word-accuracy complete -> comprehension of the text is not possible. I'd have to think on -> that one. I've sent for some material that may shed some light on -> the subject. Surely you've had memos and other offical documents you've had to read at work, or medical directions given by a doctor, instructions for taking perscription medication, legal documents, and the like where reading every word was important? In technical areas such as math and engineering, texts must be read carefully. Ommission of a single word here or there can mislead the student and cause grievous errors in comprehension. This doesn't probably apply to reading novels for recreation, but certainly producing novel-readers in not the goal of our ed system? Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100020 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:40am \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Whole Language 2 -> It's not show and tell....it's "bring and brag." I hate it too -> because many children bring things to share and then just sit there -> with no idea of what to say. Meanwhile I have 25 five-year-olds -> doing the squiggly dance on the floor. Some of my children's teachers have dealt with this in the following way: First of all, the whole class doesn't do "show and tell" on the same day. Each child is given a day of the week that is their "sharing" day (I believe it was called "sharing" instead of "show and tell"). The teachers gave a specific topic each Friday afternoon that was the topic for the next week. For instance, your favorite TV show and why. Or, your pet or favorite animal. They also went over the proper way to present your topic. (1) Introduction...state what you are going to talk about, (2) Main part...discuss your animal, your vacation, your tv show, whatever it is, (3) Personal...a couple of sentences about why it is important to you, (4) Questions...allow other students to ask you a question. I believe that at our school, the teachers consider it an important part of public speaking. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100021 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:44am \/To: DAVE MAINWARING (Read 4 times) Subj: Demand for Programmers -> However to equate knowing how to program in C++ or anyother language -> as an automatic career calls for a serious reality check. Sorry my statements came across that way. I certainly didn't mean that. My reference was to my husband's job. His resume is online, if you want to get on the Web and check it out. He certainly does have more qualifications than just being able to program in C++. It is good that you point out that most companies hiring programmers are going to look for coureswork and even degrees in Comp Sci. I do believe, though, that some persons without the official degrees but only the practical experience can make it into decent jobs, but this is much more difficult and rare. -> I;m not at all sure that ten years from now there will be a market -> for C++ programming just look at the "programmers" who were Cobol -> Programmers, RPGII programmers etc...todays hot language is tomorrows -> antique. True. Some are speaking as Java as the programming language of tomorrow. But Cobol goes back MUCH more than 10 years. And even today, there are times when employees need a knowledge of Fortran. (My information source is my husband, who apparently still has a need to utilize existing code in Fortran from time to time.) Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100022 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:57am \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 4 times) Subj: Whole Language 1 1/2 -> I teach in San Jose, California. California does have the largest -> class sizes in the nation, I believe, or close to it. K-3 class -> sizes top out at 32 in my district, and grades 4-6 at 34. It is very -> seldom that classes are not at the maximum. California currently has the largest class sizes in the nation (or did one or two years ago...probably still does). However, the large class sizes took a few years to develop as state funding was cut. At the beginnings of the Whole Language movement in California (1990?) I believe the classes were somewhat smaller. -> In addition, California has probably the most diverse population in -> the nation. In my 1-2-3 multi age classroom last year, I had -> students whose first languages were Vietnamese (2), Chinese (2), -> Spanish (3), Italian (1), Tagalog (1), Korean (1), and Assyrian (2). -> Some of these students were still struggling with oral communication -> in English, but we were required to include them in our standardized -> testing in the spring. California tests 14% of their limited English -> proficient students; no other state in the United States tests more -> than 9% of their limited English students. This is true. We have an extremely diverse population in California. Moreso than in any other state in the nation. However, we had this problem before the Whole Language programs in California began. Since this is not something that has changed in Pre-Whole Language to Post-Whole Language in our state, it cannot reasonably be pointed to as an explanation why reading scores have dropped in our state. Possibly what it does indicate is that in a non-native English speaking population, which is a significant portion of the population in California, Whole Language is not the best program (I am sorry, but although you object to the term "program" in reference to Whole Language, it is the term I feel is most appropriate for this discussion, since California did implement it as though it were a program) for these types of students. More traditional reading instruction likely works better for such students, since California reading scores were higher before the Whole Language movement hit our classrooms. from Dan Triplett: -> I also heard that the state has passed a law that limits class size -> to around 22. from San Jose teacher: -> Recently, a bill was passed in the state legislature providing money -> for school districts who lower class sizes in first, second, and -> third grade. The amount of money provided is not enough to cover -> teachers' salaries, and many schools in California are already -> overcrowded, but districts all over the state are scrambling to lower -> class sizes, especially in first grade (the legislation states that -> districts must start with first grade.) In order to receive the -> money, class sizes must be no lower than 20 students by Feb. 16, -> 1997. This is accurate. My children's school is only attempting to lower grade 1 class sizes, and will do so by doubling up classes (40 students) and putting two teachers in the room until more portables or other space can be found. I will post later the letter from our principal that we received for school opening information for this year, which adresses some of this topic. -> I don't think that the state curriculum was poorly designed as much -> as it was poorly implemented by a populace of teachers who were not -> believers in whole language theory, who resisted change, and who -> never received the kind of training they needed in order to make the -> necessary paradigm shift. -> -> It's a lot of variables, for which whole language is taking the -> blame. This seems like an accurate take on the situation to me. You can't force teachers who don't buy into a certain philosophy to practice effectively, especially when they haven't received sufficient training in it. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100023 Date: 08/31/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 12:02pm \/To: DONNA RANSDELL (Read 4 times) Subj: Whole Language 1 -> BTW, just for an update from my kids' school district: they were -> mandated to lower class size in the primary grades and want to hire -> 100 new teachers to teach those new classes. However, there isn't a -> rental or for-purchase portable classroom available in the state, I'm -> told, and Garden Road is stretched to the limit with all classrooms -> full. Yes, I've read about this situation in several electronic forums, including k12.chat.teacher. Also, as I mentioned in a post today, there is a letter from the principal at my children's school which adresses this in part. I will post part of that letter later this weekend. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD100024 Date: 08/30/96 From: STEVE AMBROSINI Time: 11:24pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 3 times) Subj: Vouchers PS> During my project, I raised scores by PS> 2.2 points by simply removing students who saw the school pychologist, PS> or who saw the intervention team. I wonder what PS did with them, throw them out? MS> But until public schools are allowed to remove MS> troublemakers from the classroom, private schools MS> will be the only alternative parents demanding MS> that their kid's education not be ruined have. MS> That's why vouchers are needed. Vouchers will only subsidize the schools for the elite as they are the only group that will be wealthy enough to put up the $$$ for the rest of the expenses. Vouchers only cover a small part of the education. How will an middle class or lower family ever make use of a voucher and a private school? CB> Whoa, so all students that see school psychologists are CB> troublemakers? Vouchers are going to cure this? CB> Private schools don't have to treat troubled children? Of course not, they are expelled and go back to the public schools. --- DB 1.58/003138 * Origin: Emerogronican 2 BBS Wethersfield CT (1:142/666) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DD200000 Date: 08/27/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 06:35pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum Responding to a message by Sheila, to Charles on <08/25/96>... SK>I was suggesting some way of evaluating a portfolio down to a grade in a SK>consistent fashion, similar to what is done in scoring the free response SK>sections of the AP examinations. I understood - was merely venting on some other pitfalls I envisioned in trying to implement a system of portfolios. Sorry if I appeared dense. SK>They do have a Studio Art AP course, in which the students submit SK>portfolios of their work. I have no idea how this subject area is SK>scored, but if it is similar to scoring in the other areas, grades are SK>awarded very consistently. Well, maybe, but art is subjective - I wonder. Even with our statewide Regents exams here in New York (about 40% of the math tests are open ended and partial credit is awarded), there is often disagreement over how to score a particular answer. I don't think we're *ever* going to eliminate *all* subjectivity. SK>An additional barrier I see to achieving consistency in scoring SK>portfolios across an entire state, is that the instructors will not all SK>give similar assignments, they will not all have samples of the same SK>type of work in their students portfolios. Unless, beforehand, the state SK>gives some sort of detailed outline as to what type of work should be SK>represented in the portfolio. Your point is well-taken. SK>At the workshop I attended in July for the Geometer's Sketchpad software SK>from Key Curriculum Press, one of the presentors did give some very SK>detailed suggestions on how she implemented and graded portfolios. SK>Perhaps, in a couple of months when I have some time I might type up SK>something about how she suggested using portfolios in a math class. I'm interested. Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* A cynic is only a frustrated optimist. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70)