--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00008 Date: 08/18/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 10:31am \/To: RUTH LEBLANC (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Where We Stand Responding to a message by Ruth, to Matt on <08/11/96>... RL>As to the above statement...Sorry, I disagree. Although, student RL>attitude towards school can be a result of upbringing etc. there is a RL>certain amount that is developed by the school. Surely you can remember RL>one teacher, or school that you had/have been to that had an effect on RL>you be it negative or positive? It certainly had an effect on me - RL>specifically to do with certain school subjects. Matt tends to make broad, sweeping generalizations in nearly everything he says about the schools. In truth, if 27 years of teaching have taught me ANYTHING about the children we teach, it is that every single one of them is different, and every single one of them is motivated by unique factors. As for student attitudes toward school and teachers, they run the gamut from those who are dead set against cooperation in any fashion to those who hang on every word the teacher says as if it were gospel. Those who do best in school are those who come with an open mind, yet are able to critically analyze the content of what they are listening to. Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* Let's organize this thing and take all the fun out of it. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00009 Date: 08/18/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 10:43am \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: Where We Stand Reposted with permission of the American Federation of Teachers http://www.aft.org Where We Stand By Albert Shanker Education and Productivity Last year, a national survey of 3,000 businesses reported that companies hiring young graduates pay very little attention to their high school achievement. This was not exactly news. It simply made explicit the weak link in the U.S. between school and work that some people have been worried about for a long time. But when researchers did further analyses of the survey data, they found something else. Whether or not businesses ignore it, there is a solid connection between a company's productivity and the education of its workers. The National Employer Survey, as it is called, was carried out by the U.S. Census Bureau for the U.S. Department of Education in 1994. The survey found that businesses rank measures of formal education--years of schooling, test scores, the reputation of the school an applicant attended, and the applicant's grades--below nonschool measures. And though they consider recommendations from current and past EMPLOYERS important, TEACHER recommendations are at the bottom of the list. If asked to explain why they have little interest in school performance, the businesses would undoubtedly have said that high school graduates are often so poorly prepared that it is not worth the time and expense to see whether John got better grades or took tougher courses than Bill. The trouble is, as I wrote in an earlier column about this survey ("Linking School and Work," April 23, 1995), this is a "self-fulfilling prophecy." If a lot of people start withdrawing money from a bank because they are afraid it will fail, the bank will certainly fail. When businesses regularly disregard what students have accomplished in school, most students will see no reason to take tough courses instead of easy ones. In fact, they'll feel stupid if they do. As a result, educational achievement will continue to slide. However, a second round of findings based on data from the National Employer Survey links hiring more-educated workers with increased productivity. In "The Other Shoe: Education's Contribution to the Productivity of Establishments," researchers from the National Center on the Educational Quality of the Workforce looked first at the effect on productivity associated with an increase in the book value of a company's capital stock. They found that a 10 percent increase in capital stock was associated with a 3.4 percent increase in productivity. If hours worked were increased by 10 percent, there was a 5.6 percent increase in productivity. But a 10 percent increase in employees' average education (which is equal to a little more than one additional year of schooling) was associated with an 8.6 percent increase in productivity. This was true for all the businesses surveyed. When researchers looked at productivity increases in the nonmanufacturing sector, they found an even greater effect: A 10 percent increase in education was associated with a hefty 11 percent increase in productivity. The same survey that established the unimportance of education in hiring decisions also makes clear that businesses that ignore education are missing the boat. Additional analyses of data from the National Employer Survey also indicate that considering applicants' education makes a difference in employee turnover and thus in recruitment costs. According to "Weighing the Benefits: Incentives for Connecting Schools and Employers" (CHANGE magazine, March/April 1996), many employers say they don't bother screening applicants. Instead they "try them out," a technique that results in "a series of hires and fires until both employer and employee [find] a suitable match." In contrast, companies that use school measures as "important criteria" in screening candidates have a much lower turnover rate: During the first year, there is a 10 percent difference between employers who consider education important and those who do not. Undoubtedly this means that companies that pay attention to school measures save money on recruitment and on training new employees. Should we be surprised that hiring workers who are more educated leads to greater productivity or job stability? I don't think so. Still, it is difficult to turn around a settled practice, like ignoring school achievement, and if it takes quantitative research to establish the obvious, so be it. (We are certainly used to that in education.) Furthermore, the results of this survey will make it easier for business leaders to carry out the pledge they made at the Education Summit in March-- that is, to pressure companies to begin calling for school transcripts when they are hiring recent graduates. And when that happens, we'll know we are on our way to establishing a connection between school and work. .For more information on the National Employer Survey or to obtain a copy of "The Other Shoe," call 800-437-9799. Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* A friend in need is a pest indeed... --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00010 Date: 08/18/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 11:19am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Whole Lang 1 Responding to a message by Sheila, to Charles on <08/15/96>... SK>Reading must be FREE of what is on the page????? I thought the whole SK>point to reading was to interpret WHAT is on the PAGE? As I understand it, some interpret the reading process as a fluid motion - the reader's eyes flow across the page absorbing words, images and information all as one process. As I understand the quote that prompted your response, the hope was that the reader could achieve a state in which he/she could focus on the meaning of what was on the page, interpreting and analyzing what was being read, rather than focusing on the mechanics of the reading process. It was this view of reading that lead to the development of the whole word and the whole language processes. SK>I guess I was a bit hard on her. I was pretty much shocked, and SK>indicated it in my follow-up message to her suggestions. Unfortunately, SK>the way I wrote my piece, she felt attacked and sent me an e-mail SK>thanking me for "teaching" her about how one must be prepared to stand SK>behind their beliefs when they state them in the newsgroups, since SK>others (such as me!) will tear them to shreds. :-( If any of the material in the Jill Stewart article would be of any use to you in that debate, Jill told me that she had, more or less, turned that article into the public domain because of the importance of the topic. I would guess you could use some, or all , of that article to help you in the discussion. Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* A bird in the hand, gets highly agitated --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00011 Date: 08/18/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 11:27am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Whole Lang. 2 Responding to a message by Sheila, to Charles on <08/15/96>... SK>Arrgh! Accuracy is not an essential goal of reading? I do believe that whole language theorists believe that an accurate reading of each single word is less important than gathering understanding from the text. I suppose, in some instances, that trying to guess at a word from the context of the passage is going to lead to some misinterpretation, but the theory is that such mis-readings will be minimal for the accomplished reader. SK>I would think that discussion in this conference alone would SK>demonstrate how incorrect that statement is. We nitpick over words SK>here. And when reading medical works or law, isn't accuracy important? I recently spent a couple of years working on a district plan to reform our schools (that's another story) as part of a community committee. I drove most of the other committee members crazy because I kept a dictionary by my side and insisted that we verify the meaning of any words that seemed to be the point of dissension. SK>Anyone who thinks that the accuracy of a single word is not important in SK>teaching reading is IMO simply wrong! I think you're getting a sense of why traditionalists are frustrated with the whole language process. Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* Other opinions will be welcomed and ignored. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00012 Date: 08/18/96 From: CHARLES BEAMS Time: 11:56am \/To: STEVE AMBROSINI (Read 3 times) Subj: Creative needs Responding to a message by Steve, to All on <08/14/96>... SA>We have an old Mac IIe lab and wonder of anyone has found uses SA>for the computers other than using the monitors in a video lab. SA>Can any of the later technology make them useful? SA> SA>CD Stations perhaps? I'm not too familiar with the Macs, so can't be specific, but we are dismantling an old Apple II GS lab and found that a number of our teachers were anxious to have a cluster of 4 or 5 of these in their room. They are great for typing practice and word processing, as well as some practice in basic skills (e.g., math). Chuck Beams Fidonet - 1:2608/70 cbeams@future.dreamscape.com ___ * UniQWK #5290* A lightning bolt partitioned my hard drive. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: The Hidey-Hole BBS, Pennellville, NY (315)668-8929 (1:2608/70) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00013 Date: 08/17/96 From: CAROLYNNE BLEWITT Time: 08:11pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: computer technology Dear Sheila You appear to know quite a lot about computer technology. Do you have any ideas about how computers can be used in the primary school classroom. Should they be used only to enable students to word process their writing or as a reward for students to play on when they have finished early????? Thanks. Hope to hear from you soon!!!! --- FMail 0.94 * Origin: Sydney Education BBS - Sydney University (3:712/628) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00014 Date: 08/16/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 08:10am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: WHOLE LANG. 2 SK>Anyone who thinks that the accuracy of a single word is not important SK>in teaching reading is IMO simply wrong! You're just an old fuddy-duddy, Sheila...... ;-) ___ * MR/2 2.26 * See the Future; See OS/2. Be the Future; Run OS/2. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00015 Date: 08/17/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 11:13pm \/To: STEVE AMBROSINI (Read 2 times) Subj: PROGRAMMING IN THE CLASS SA>Once we instilled programming in the elementary schools, we saw SA>students exploring the language, looking up new verbs to use, SA>develoing techniques, eager to show what they have developed and SA>it is especially rewarding to see them ask to stay late, come in SA>after school and/or waiting at the door, before the teacher SA>arrives, to get in.... This may be something else I missed, but I don't think I ever "got" that this is a "program" being used somewhere? You are a teacher? Where is this happening? Can you give us some details on the program and curriculum involved? If this is happening in elementary school, how have the teachers made accomodation for the increased material in an already crowded (some might say OVER-crowded) day? What type of hardware, software, is being used/created? ___ * MR/2 2.26 * Why not travel at WARP speed? OS/2 WARP 3.0 --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00016 Date: 08/17/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 11:13pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: ILLICH HIMSELF RM> ...for a person trained as a cleric. Their focus is not on the RM> here-and-now in the FIRST place, RM> and is MUCH more concerned with the individual, soul, and RM> what comes after for the INDIVIDUAL (I'm speaking mainly of RM> the Christian view here, as Illich is/was a priest). On the RM> contrary, society is concerned about the good of the whole, RM> and what happens to the SOCIETY after... SK>I'm not sure that you can simplify the Christian point of view to be SK>focussed on the individual instead of society. I believe that it is SK>mostly a result of my Christian upbringing that I feel the SK>responsibility to others in society during our temporal existence. I'm not disputing that societal responsibility is a byproduct, or that "spreading the word" is an imperative, but the focus is clearly on the future of the individual in the hereafter, not on the living in THIS world; would you agree with that? ___ * MR/2 2.26 * My best view of Windows was through OS/2 WARP. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DCQ00017 Date: 08/17/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 11:13pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: MALE AND FEMALE SK>Seriously, anyone who has to use such pretentious language in getting SK>their point across doesn't score any points with me. Exactly my point; makes me suspect that the packaging is designed to obscure meaning rather than convey it.. ___ * MR/2 2.26 * "OS/2 is THE operating system of the 90's" - Bill Gates --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302)