--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB^00025 Date: 07/30/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 05:50am \/To: LEONA PAYNE (Read 2 times) Subj: Teaching Responsible Thinking 3/3 Hi, quite a number of our teachers asked for this plan to be investigated as we are not happy with Assertive Discipline. However, as of yet our principal has not budged (unusual for him). So, I will continue to push for change. Maybe this year. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB^00026 Date: 07/30/96 From: CARL BOGARDUS Time: 06:00am \/To: MICHAEL MARTINEZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Ivan Illich MM> The big problem with what you're saying is that you fail to realize MM> that natural selection in Illich's environment will MM> automatically weed out MM> the student pilots who aren't cut out for it, from MM> those who are good at it. MM> Or the surgeons. Or whoever. The other thing is, MM> your neighborhood will MM> automatically know who the bad "self-taught" surgeons are and who MM> the good ones are, so very quickly the bad one will have a dwindling MM> practice. When you ask your neighbors to recommend a good surgeon, MM> they'll tell you. MM> Illich's system really is the best way to promote learning. Education MM> doesn't promote learning. It just forces pre-decided concepts on MM> people, the current fads, and weeds out those students who aren't MM> adept at this kind of "learning". Well, I don't think the system will promote learning. I don't think you have been around kids very much. Very few will be self-motivated enough to chase after self-education to the extent you describe. My own experiences would say that education did promote learning. Although I did learn much from my parents, there is much I learned from school also. Parents sometime are victims to the latest fads also. Mexico practices this kind of learning after 8th grade-however it is only the more wealthy families that can afford schooling or tutors or "expert teachers". --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: VETLink #13 Las Cruces NM (505)523-2811 (1:305/105) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB^00027 Date: 07/30/96 From: THE MODERATOR Time: 10:07am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Quoting from messages Hello Everyone, This is the Moderator speaking. A small reminder about "Netiquette"... When replying to a message quote _ONLY ENOUGH_ of the message to remind others of the context of the message you are responding to. Quoting the whole message (or most of it) and adding only a few lines of response is bad manners. In FidoNet, most systems are voluntarily run by Sysops who must pay the phone bills. Unnecessary quoting increases the size of the mail transported, which means longer connect times, which means bigger phone bills. Do you like your Sysop? Do you like FidoNet? Please support FidoNet by controlling your quotes. EDIT YOOR REPLIES! Sheila King FidoNet, MODERATOR 1:218/804 cking@cyberg8t.com --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100000 Date: 07/26/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 07:43am \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 2 times) Subj: 'puter-tech curriculm 1/ Hi Chuck, CB->SK>I'd skip the data bases for sixth grade. If they are thoroughly CB->SK>acquainted with word processing and a bit familiar with spreadsheets, CB->Hmmm...interesting. I think I would do just the opposite. Spreadsheets CB->contain much more power and tons of stuff that 6th graders will have CB->little use for. Using a database (such as MS Works) with the ability to CB->do simple calculations and organize data in a simple format would be CB->more useful to 11-year-olds. Word processing will be a priority. The difference of opinion between spreadsheet versus database is instructional to me. What kind of things do you think 11-year-olds might do with a database? With a spreadsheet? The power of the spreadsheet, with it's ability to graph, and calculate seems like it should make it very useful. A good thing also about MS Works is that it includes all three programs. It's the one I'm using here at home this summer to learn about spreadsheets and databases. Summer sure is going fast. Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * We all live in a yellow subroutine. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100001 Date: 07/26/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 08:00am \/To: RICK PEDLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: 'puter-tech curriculm 1/ Hi Rick, RP->it as a text editor :) I think probably a smattering of the three RP->basic applications in something like Works wouldn't hurt, especially RP->showing them the _differences_ and how to cut and paste data from RP->one to the other. You make alot of sence . Using the tools together is an important part of what I think should happen as the basics are learned and the connections explored. I wish I could see some examples of what students at this stage could do with them before I jump in myself. Do you know of any website that perhaps has some examples of student work in this area? Or do you have any cool ideas of how they might? Peace Bob RP->coffeerp@adan.kingston.net #] COFFEE MUG SOFTWARE #] RP->___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 RP->--- InterEcho 1.18 RP-> * Origin: CrossRoads * Kingston, Ont. (1:249/1) --- * SLMR 2.1a * On a clear disk you can seek forever --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100002 Date: 07/29/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 04:32am \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 2 times) Subj: 'PUTER-TECH CURRICULM Hi Ron, RM->Forwarned and all that.... Heck, try it out, and if it isn't RM->making it, have something waiting in the wings.... This is the survival tactic that will be vital to each plan I try with all this new stuff. I've got to be ready to flex . Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound? --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100003 Date: 07/29/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 04:48am \/To: BOB BROWAR (Read 2 times) Subj: 'PUTER-TECH CURRICULM Hi Bob I misunderstood somthing, looks like we'll be getting 2 pentiums, not 4, but I still do get to help build them. BA-> 4 pentiums running windows95 or windows/NT for networking BA-> 1 486 with dos 6.22 and windows 3.11 BA-> 1 powermac ( I'm hoping to get it to run both dos and windows) BA-> 10 Apple IIe's 5.25 floppy drive only BA-> 1 Apple IIc 3.5 and 5.25 floppy drive only BA->It's quite an assortment , quite a challenge. BA-> My classroom set up is: BA-> 1 8088 running DOS5 BA-> 3 286's running Dos 6.22 Each class will be about 19 I think. It will be for 30 min daily. The other 6th grade will have 2 268s running dos 3.0 Whew! But things can change quickly, perhaps another business will upgrade. Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100004 Date: 07/29/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 06:34am \/To: SHELIA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: mail HI Shelia I got your email, Thanks. I still wonder how you do it all. I decided to reply here instead of through the internet. >I'll wait a few days, since I imagine that with having had no access for three >weeks, you have plenty of mail to read and digest anyhow. If, after a time, it >seems to me that you may have missed some of the messages in the thread, 'll >send them along then. Yes, I've got one very large mail packet to go through, >As for your comments about "brainstorming" in the conference and allowing >everyone to participate, I'd say you are "right on" there. No need to take the >thread to private e-mail (unless you really want to). There are always >"lurkers" >in the echo, and you never know who might benefit from the discussion. And the truth is that the more imput there is the better the results for those of us who need to use them, the ideas I mean. >If you have newsgroup access and you want more input, opinions, and maybe >e-mail >too, check out these groups which you may find helpful: >comp.edu discussions about computer education >k12.comp.literacy discussions about computer literacy in k-12 >comp.lang.logo discussions about the computer language logo I think this is a valuable list. >Forwarded (missed) messages follow. Good luck... You and Bob Moylan should get replies soon. The posts were thought provoking. Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline is umop apisdn --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100005 Date: 07/30/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 06:49am \/To: SHELIA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: 'puter tech edu Hi Shelia, >Most of your stuff looks good. I do think, as Ron has pointed out, that >it is a bit LONG. How much instructional time are you going to have? You >may have to prioritize and cut some of it out. I agree with both of you, it's not the kind of thing that will be built in a first year. It's that stage of planning when I try to think of everything I can so I can do two things: 1- get an idea of what the overall view might look like and , 2- have a large picklist to try out and see what works and what doesn't as applications begin. The more detailed the ideas develop here this summer, the easier the planning will be (I hope) this fall. >-> Students should be able to use Mac, DOS and Windows computer >-> environments: >Is it really necessary that the students learn multiple OS environments? >I wouldn't think that is necessary. What type of computer lab set up do >you have? While I personally like a DOS environment and feel comfortable >in it, most persons nowadays who only use their computer for >applications seem to have little need for understanding DOS command line >OS. I would pick either the Windows or Mac, depending on your hardware >and software, and stick with that. Too much variety could prove >confusing for some of your students. It's a danger. I think it will depend on how the groups rotate, the length of time they have in , say the dos environment. It seems to be something that some kids really want to learn (at least in the 4th grade I had to teach some by demand) Perhaps everyone doesn't want to know dos, but , it ought to be something that I can offer as needed. But aren't people less technophobic after they learn dos? >-> 1 - using the basic dos commands (copy, format, cd, md >-> ect) in the correct syntax to set up and use a variety of >-> software, within the structure of the path . >-> 2 - use filenames and extentions to recognize and create >-> executables , texts, pictures, letters , ect >A lot of this seems awfully technical for 6ht grade. I'm sure you have >some kids for whom this will be a breeze, but will all of them be able >to handle this? If a kid can format a disk in either Windows or Mac, >copy from one directory (or folder or disk) to another, move files >around, understand the hierarchical nature of the folder or directory >system and delete, move files as appropriate, that should be sufficient. I think you just prioritized this for me, but, the dos environment is an important one for the machines we have to work with so those basic commands are needed. I hope it's not too technical, but I'll surely be ready to flex if it doesn't work well. >You are really looking for them to learn how to install system software >or something by the end of this class, right? installimg software is easy for them to learn, for sure, Dangerous too, kids can eat up alot of hd and memory >-> 3 - using compression/decompression commands (pkzip ect) >-> to maximize the use of disk space and to access shareware/freeware >-> software. >Good utilization of compression software sounds important. It has been in my own computer experience, though self extracting files seem to be becoming common now. >-> Keyboarding >Keyboarding is an entire semester course at our high school. How much >time are you going to devote to this with the rest of the stuff you have >planned? Begining in the 3d grade these children have been exposed to keyboarding, in the last quarter of that year they do about 4 weeks of it focusing on the home row , In 4th grade they had keyboarding for 15 minutes a day, from September untill the conclusion of the letter key lessons in December, ( then they begin using the word processor) In the 5th grade they review keyboarding skills in the first semester and hop right into the word processor. I'm thinking that the sixth grade will need some kind of review, but I'm not real sure how much time is needed. I hope not much. >-> Word processing >Word processing is important, but the depth to which you list it there >seems a little excessive (given time constraints). My kids (ages 7 & 10) >are learning a bit about word processing at home when they do school >work. But they certainly don't know how to do all the stuff you suggest >(nor do I!). Have you ever taught computers before? How many kids do you 19 0r 20 usually, and I taught the 3d and 4th grade programs stated above, We've also explored a lot of software that is content studies oriented. >have at one time? You might have to be going around from computer to >computer helping kids out who don't understand the correct key or >mouse-click sequence. My experience in teaching proper use of the >graphing calculators in math class is that I always plan twice as much >as I'm able to cover in class, since I am slowed down by >trouble-shooting student difficulties. I tend in that direction too, overplanning is much more productive than underplanning don't you think? Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DC100006 Date: 07/30/96 From: BOB ANDERSON Time: 11:08pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 2 times) Subj: 'Puter-Tech Curriculm Hi Carl, CB--> CB> with were frustrated CB--> CB> with LOGO and saw little purpose in it. Perhaps, CB--> CB> I saw it as a very dry topic. I recall playing with it 8 years ago during a "Computers in the Classroom" course I enjoyed it , but I remember there being a substantial effort at first to find it interesting. Then it became fun. The teacher I took it with saw no utility (neither did I at that time) and found it stressful. CB-->SK>But I can see presenting some very fun CB-->SK>lessons in Logo (there are many activity books CB-->SK>available through the CB-->SK>Logo Foundation) that would (hopefully?) grab the kids' attention. The web site is great too as Shelia said. There are links to so much there , I spent over an hour just surfin and barely touched the surface. CB--> CB> Well, you'll have to try it and see what you think. CB--> CB> All I can tell you CB--> CB> is, given our circumstances and inclinations, we no longer teach . It's Cause for pause to me, I wonder how Shelia's class will like it. They will be older than my kids. CB-->I would tend to think that LOGO could be very dry, I think that the CB-->addition of robots could have made quite a difference. Practical uses CB-->abound for robotic applications in the work world, Logo is a very good CB-->robotic language for beginners. IMHO Have you tried the robots? how do they work? Are they expensive? Peace Bob --- * SLMR 2.1a * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: FidoNet: Divinity BBS *Springvale,Me* 207-490-5844 (1:326/422.0)