--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00011 Date: 07/22/96 From: LEONA PAYNE Time: 07:49pm \/To: DAL JENCSO (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Notes from school to LP>> I've noted a similar attitude in our kids. The greediness, I LP>> feel, has come about as a result of discipline programs such DJ> I think the problem is much wider- meet the entitlement DJ> generation. I have two teenagers at home and at times I wonder DJ> who their parents are! The change in the kids at the high school DJ> level during the last 15 years is amazing (yeah, I know we old DJ> ..... have been saying this forever). It seems that the DJ> determinate of behavior is how it makes the individual feel at DJ> that instant. I'm surprised when I see children in public with their parents or children of my friends *demanding* that the parents buy them an expensive item. Then I'm astonished when the parents actually *buy* the item. I don't know which I find more reprehensible, the children's actions or the parents' reactions. I then get kids in the classroom treating me to demands & they get a taste of being told NO. Many of them think they can change my mind by ragging on me & ask several more times. I'm really happy with our new discipline plan, because now I behave differently in a similar situation. Where I used to just repeat no, no, no, then ignore them, now I say no once & if they ask again, I ask them what they are doing, is that okay, and what they think will happen to them if they keep it up. If they keep it up, they are sent to PRC until they show me a plan outlining how they will cease nagging me in the future. I suppose when I have a kid & am subjected to the nagging daily & all-year round, I, too, will succumb & buy their silence. Usually they are agitating for a party or to have the TV turned on or to have MTV on the TV if we've viewed a video. I noticed that around November they caught on & started taking it seriously. Next year, I aim to have them take me seriously by September. LP>> We had at least 4 all-day, sports sponsored activities this LP>> year; that's not counting the half-day ones. DJ> I tend to support whole school activities that DJ> allow kids to showcase their talents. If only the activities *were* showcasing the students' talents. I am not talking about or counting track 'n' field day here. That doesn't strike me as having pro sports' involvement. At my school, it is organized by our PE dept & run by special area teaching stuff. (That's not to say that I approve of losing another instructional day while I am required to measure long jumps or record times; I was lucky this year & sprained my ankle the day before--it was worth the pain to take a sick day.) What I am referring to here is the NFL Experience & NBA Stay in School. The NFL brings in various pieces of equipment & runs students through a mini-version of their theme park. Each grade missed a half day of classes to participate, but I teach mixed 7th/8th grade classes & therefore lost a whole day of teaching because 1/3 to 1/2 of each class was missing. The other half of the day is wasted because the afternoon kids who did the NFL program in the morning were too tired to do much & the morning kids who were going to do it in the afternoon were too hyper to focus. There was little showcasing of talent there, mostly just running off energy. The other programs were a part of the Stay in School project; kids watched a tv program in the morning before being sent to the gym for several hours. They were lectured to by a former NBA player, Frank Johnson. Frank's speech, which should have been inspiring, positive & up-beat, came off to the kids as being depressing, negative & judgmental. Our kids don't need anybody telling them how "bad" they are. Most of 'em are pretty good, with a small percentage borderline bad & a tiny percentage being truly bad news. It goes to the idea of living up to expectations. There were two of these assemblies. After that, the Suns' Jam was held in March. The majority of the student population was bussed over to the America West Arena where a live band played songs from the 70's (I was SO happy when disco died the first time, I'd like to pulverize the bright spark who has brought it back,) & the Suns' players gave motivating speeches about staying in school & how they liked school. The master of ceremonies, David Spade (who is from Scottsdale, AZ,) bombed with the teachers & the kids when he attempted funnies about being in school. Outside of pro-sports, we also had staff/student volleyball & basketball tournaments. They were held on early dismissal days when many of teachers prefer not to teach. (I count early dismissals as regular school days, just shorter.) Only a handful of students were able to participate in these (the boys' basketball team & a handpicked group of boys to make up a student volleyball team [Uh, oh, more sexism there.]) so I don't count them as student showcase activities. DJ> All day is too long. Even half a day is too long when it interferes with the rest of the school day. LP>> This is something I would like to see stopped. Professional LP>> sports are openly being allowed to do what the tobacco LP>> industry has been accused of doing secretively: hooking kids LP>> on their product while they are young. DJ> Interesting. I never thought about it this way. I knew there was DJ> a reason I liked reading your stuff . I will have to ponder DJ> this one a bit. How embarrassing. That kind of comment usually is because I reamed someone. I've been trying not to do that even when provoked by displays of true stupidity on the part of the terminally blinkered. (I still say give me college students, lots & lots of them, because I've never read about a case of professors having to break up date rapes during class.) DJ> My 9 year old is a Michael Jordan fan. Just got a coffee table DJ> book entitled _Rare Air_. Interesting book and good role model. DJ> Now I have to try to put this all together thanks to you. Guess Maybe I'm just attitudinal because Charles 'I am not a role model' Barkley lives here in town (maybe for another month or two, heh heh heh.) I kinda think he's right. He's not a role model & shouldn't be just because he can shoot hoops & mug for the camera. He should be admired as a role model for finishing school. Last year, Dan Majerle told our kids at an assembly that he has a teaching degree & that after pro basketball ends for him, he wants to teach/coach high school b-ball. ("Yeah, RIGHT!" everybody's thinking.) Admirable sentiment, but we'll see, won't we? DJ> I have to go fishing...... Do you need a reason? Leona Payne ... "Yee-oo-nee-forms! Quick, Jimmy Bob, get the guns. The commies are acomin'" --- Via Silver Xpress V4.3P SW12194 * Origin: The Union Jack BBS, Phoenix, AZ, USA. (602) 274-9921 (1:114/260) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00012 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 11:33am \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 3 times) Subj: Educational comparisons -> SK>While you show large percentages of students in foreign nations -> passing SK>these exams, I do recall from a previous article that you -> had posted SK>that the percentage passing rate on these exams was -> rather low SK>(something like 30%?). I was shocked at how low they -> students were SK>allowed to score and still be considered passing. -> Are we speaking to the same issue? I think the percentage passing -> rate referred to the number of kids passing, not the grades they -> received. I think I've deleted the message from my system and I'll -> need to go back to the Web site and review it - maybe I was reading -> it incorrectly. Sorry, I'm not using correct terminology. I meant "passing score", not "passing rate". For instance, from an article you posted on France's Ed system we have: -> To earn the brevet diploma, students must meet two basic -> requirements: -> Both course grades and exams are graded on a 20-point scale, with -> students rarely scoring above 15. In the three exam subjects, exam -> scores are doubleweighted, then averaged with course grades to -> achieve a combined score. For the other subjects, course grades alone -> serve as the final scores. To earn the diploma, the average of a -> student's scores from all subjects must equal at least a 10. -> Virtually all students who finish 9th grade on the academic track -> take the brevet de college exam and 75 percent of test takers earn -> the diploma-which translates to about 60 percent of the age cohort. I'm not sure this is exactly what I was thinking of when I responded to you, but 10 on a scale of 20 isn't real high. Of course, that is possibly not related to a raw score on the exam? I could've sworn there was some exam you posted about that students needed a relatively low raw score to pass (below 50%). I will have to spend more time looking for that article. Then again, I may have imagined the whole thing. %*> Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00013 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 02:17pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 3 times) Subj: Girl Can't Escape Sexism -> SK>A few years ago (maybe five?) one of our teachers (a nun) -> commented to SK>me that a girl at our school would never run for ASB -> president, and even SK>if she did, the student body would never elect -> a girl for that position. SK>Secretary or Treasurer, sure. Maybe even -> Vice Pres, but not President. -> In our schools roughly 70% of all organizational officers are girls, -> including classes, clubs and student council. Our valedictorians and -> salutatorians have all been girls for the past 3 years. Is it -> cultural (NY Vs. Calif.?), or is it a product of private school vs. -> public, or some other factor? I think you miss the point I was making by lumping all the girls into one big group. We have a large number of girls involved in extra-curricular clubs, organizations and so forth as well. I'm sure the majority of students in the ASB program (which involves homeroom represenatitives, class officers, and appointed commissioners, literally a couple hundred students) are girls. But who is the _president_? I think we can observe similar phenomenon in our own government. There are more and more women holding political office these days, and a number of state governors and senators and congresspersons (? sounds silly?) are now women. But, it seems to me that even today, although things are changing, a presidential candidate would have an automatic disadvantage built in if she were a woman. A significant number of citizens would be disinclined to vote for a candidate for president who was a woman. I merely bring that up to illustrate my point, as I don't want to get off onto a discussion in general about women and their status in society, etc... I do think there are inequities still, though, and that these types of things are still noticeable in todays schools. I don't think so much that teachers are promoting such inequities (as Dal Jensco has pointed out, there is some speculation and controversy about research which claims that teachers call on boys more often and so forth), but that because children are not raised in a vacuum, they bring some of societies expectations and constraints with them into the classroom and this can affect what goes on at school. How do girls at our school perform academically? Very well. I would guess they are on a par with the boys, or perhaps even doing better. This past school year, our top three ranked students in the graduating senior class were all girls, our valedictorian and our salutatorian were both girls as well. Why do we have few girls run for and be elected to the office of ASB president? Could it be a Calif vs. NY or private vs. Public school phenomenon? perhaps. I don't have enough info to really speculate either to support or contradict that. I would be less inclined to think it is private vs. public school, and more likely to think it could be a geographic thing. -> SK>to be read out in homeroom) either this past year or the year -> before. It SK>requested that those interested in being a Stat Girl -> for some sport team SK>(I don't recall which) report to a meeting at -> such and such time and SK>place. -> Interesting, the difference in our experiences. When I was in high -> school (early 50's), I kept stats for both our wrestling team and -> basketball teams. It was pretty common for those cut from the teams -> to be offered positions as statisticians or helpers (I wasn't much of -> an athlete ). There are a few of the boys teams that do have boy stat keepers. The varsity basketball team is one such team, and I believe it is someone who was "cut" from the team. Sheila s --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00014 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 02:25pm \/To: DAL JENCSO (Read 3 times) Subj: Single Sex Classes -> Heh, what I meant was I am not interested in a "battle of the -> sexes" discussion... Time is short since Bertha went through. No problem. I imagine that would quickly get off-topic anyhow. BTW, who is Bertha? -> What I found so fascinating is that there was (I recall- and that is -> always risky with me) that there is evidence that girls should be -> taught math concepts early so that they (or the neural -> pathways were in place) would develop those parts of the brain -> before puberty. This one I had not heard of before, but it is appealing to me, and corresponds to some of the stuff about linguistic development (why kids can learn foreign languages more easily when they are young). This (if you _are_ recalling correctly ) also makes me think that we should be doing more higher level learning activities in math earlier, which is partly what is the current trend in math professional circles. -> Will search in _Brain Sex_ by Moir and Jessel and _Learning and -> Teaching Style_ by Kathleen Butler since they are on the shelf and -> handy. Well, if you find some interesting tidbits, please share. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00015 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 02:29pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: GIRL CAN'T ESCAPE SEXISM -> I wonder. Same seems to be true in my neck of the woods in -> NY. We still get the disparity in AP physics and Calc, but -> in virtually every other area I don't see any difference in -> male/female representation.... But part of the reason for the single-sex math/science for girls was to increase enrollment in higher math and science classes. While it is reassuring that the other areas have approximately equal representation, do you not find it a bit of a problem that there is still this unequal representation in Calc and Physics? BTW, This past year I had 22 girls in AP Calc in a class of 35 total enrollment. A pleasant reversal of the normal situation (it's the first time I've seen the girls outnumber the boys at that level). Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00016 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 05:07pm \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 3 times) Subj: Class Size Over-Rated -> Again, Whole Language is a theory or a "perspective" of literacy -> development and is not a "process" or a "program." People who -> describe it the way you are suggesting don't really understand what -> Whole Language really is. Why don't you explain it, then. I would be glad to hear more about it. I think there is a big problem in education where there are "in" terms that are used, but it may be the case that two different educators mean two very different things even while using the same term (certainly "whole language" is one example, so is "outcome based education" and, in math, "compatible with the NCTM standards" is another!). One problem, AFAIK with the "whole language" movement, is that some teachers who thought they were implementing it, felt that it was the "exclusive" method to use in the classroom and incompatible with phonics or any other reading methods. A balance of methods is probably in the best interest of the students (supports multiple learning modalities). -> I wonder how many other important "factors" contributed to this -> decline. One factor that comes to mind is the confusion over what -> Whole Language really is all about. I would guess that in addition -> to the 165 reading methods that were out there, many teachers simply -> applied "reading methods" there were familiar with and called it -> whole language. I think it is a leap to suggest that Whole Language -> is the culprit. There are probably many contributing factors, not the least of which is that we have a larger percentage of LEP students in the classroom today than in previous times. This alone would contribute (I would imagine) to declining reading scores. You are a kindergarten teacher, right? Do you teach reading? Do you just do "reading readiness" activities? I would assume you are certified/qualified to teach reading at any elementary level, according to your teaching certificate. Maybe you could enlighten those of us who are not really reading teachers. -> I believe that literature-based instruction will continue to flourish -> in those districts where Whole Language is correctly understood. I am pleased to see the teachers at my children's public school using literature based instruction. Is this all that you mean by "Whole Language"? Why have two different terms to denote the same thing? Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00017 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 07:48pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 3 times) Subj: Businesses Want Standards -> I am fortunate that my school had summer school, but that is not -> guarenteed from year to year. I am also involved in a training -> program for businesses run by our local community college. Its work -> work work if you want to survive as an educator. Yikes! I hear you loud and clear. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00018 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 07:50pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 3 times) Subj: GIRLS CAN'T ESCAPE -> SK> Oh, I'm sure this goes on. What I'd like to know, SK> then, is -> why don't the SK> girls sports teams have StatBoys? -> Lack of -> imagination!! HS choir was a great place for me, very few boys there. -> When some boy gets the idea - it will happen. I suppose. I always think the guys on our cheer squad have it pretty good...3 or 5 guys with over a dozen girls. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00019 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 07:51pm \/To: CARL BOGARDUS (Read 3 times) Subj: 'Puter-Tech Curriculm -> I would tend to think that LOGO could be very dry, I think that the -> addition of robots could have made quite a difference. Practical uses -> abound for robotic applications in the work world, Logo is a very -> good robotic language for beginners. IMHO -> -> Carl You write that as though you haven't heard of Lego Logo? (Logo programming language used to implement Robotics using specialized Lego parts.) Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DBT00020 Date: 07/22/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 07:54pm \/To: DALE HILL (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Businesses Want Stand -> I saw one survey that was for a person hired as a manager trainee for -> a fast food restaurant and one of the areas the employer stated they -> were "extremely dissastified with" was the candidates ability to -> add/subtract, do fractions and work with -> percents! I wouldn't be surprised if that came up fairly often. Students in todays schools are allowed to get by with a fair amount of calculator use, and today's calculators can do many of these operations like magic, without the student understanding or learning a darn thing! What I would want to counter with (if a business person lodged such a complaint with me) was whether they had checked the students high school transcripts. If the kid had all "As" in math and still couldn't do these operations, then the guy has a valid complaint. But if the kid had poor grades in math and this guy hired him anyhow (with or without checking his transcripts), well, that wasn't too smart now, was it? Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804)