--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400007 Date: 06/28/96 From: DAVE MAINWARING Time: 05:27am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Single Sex Classes SK> particular program may be of great benefit to a large segment of our SK> school population, we have difficulty to implement it without legal SK> repurcussions. There must be a rather large forum of discussion regarding single sex classes. Is there? Or is this another reform based on a single issue or anecdotal observation? IMHO (based on the one or two TV programs I've seen on the subject) the advntages of single sex education can improve the education process. Part of the claim to success seems to be eliminating distractions. seems to me that this can be done for mixed classes without hAving to segregate the sexes. In light of the recent court rulings the all same sex colleges are having a real problem with funding and are concerned in part because their existance is threatened. I don't see the same threat to K-12 schools. -> girls and boys must learn to work together in preparation for a coed -> world. Damned if you do damned if you don't. :-) -> hormones," writes the magazine. NEWSWEEK: "Impressing the -> opposite sex is a 14-year-old's reason for being. Take away that -> pressure, and miracles happen." At what age does it stop being the the reason? --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: SpaceMet-Internet (telnet 128.119.50.48) Amherst, MA (1:321/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400008 Date: 06/28/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 05:29pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated In a message of <24 Jun 96 23:21:38>, Matt Smith (1:3644/6) writes: MS> When I was in elementary school (about that time!), class sizes of MS>35 were the _norm_. And that wasn't due to poverty or lack of funding, MS>since that was in a rich suburb with high school taxes. There you go again, making global statements from your own very limited experiece. I went to elementary school in the 40's in New York City, and our classes were always in the low to mid 20's. And my kids went to elementary school in Massachustts in the 70's, and the same was true. MS> Preoccupation with class size is a very recent event. I don't MS>remember anyone clamoring for smaller-than-35 classes at the elementary MS>level until I was a junior in HS. MS> Maybe you just weren't listening. Or maybe your fanily didn't care what you learned or didn't. --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400009 Date: 06/28/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 05:33pm \/To: MELVIN BILLIK (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated In a message of <25 Jun 96 21:18:28>, MELVIN BILLIK (1:239/675) writes: MB>-> MS>teachers do not face. Have you ever had half your 9:00 A.M. MB>-> class come MS>in drunk? (It's common in colleges.) Excessive MB>-> partying is a major MB>-> I don't know where you went to school, but I have been teaching at MB>-> the college level for over 30 years, and I have never seen a drunk MB>-> student in class. Ever. MB>Interesting exchange. MB>I now teach high school, but I taught in college for 3 years. MB>From my experience, I think I can safely say that the answer MB>lies somewhere in between! I was a TA at NYU, an instructor at Brooklyn College in NYC and at Yale, and am now a professor at the University of Massachusetts. I certainly have had students fall asleep, but if they were drunk, I didn't realize it. Our campus has an alcohol problem, but not during class hours as far as I can tell. --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400010 Date: 06/28/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 05:35pm \/To: RANDY EDWARDS (Read 3 times) Subj: Technology In Classroom In a message of <24 Jun 96 15:30:00>, Randy Edwards (1:325/802) writes: RE> Shhh! You're making too much sense Ron. :-) RE> RE> Seriously, you raise a LOT of good points about computers in the RE>classroom that ought to be given serious consideration by more people. RE>. Please, you're swelling his head. |-8) --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400011 Date: 06/28/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 05:39pm \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated In a message of <25 Jun 96 20:41:00>, Dan Triplett (1:352/256) writes: DT>Matt seems to know a lot but has nothing to say. I have read many DT>of hiw posts and I do believe he makes things up as he goes. MS>I I know. Since I am no longer moderator and am in fact leaving fidonet very soon I decided to send him a few parting shots. --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400012 Date: 06/28/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 05:42pm \/To: MELVIN BILLIK (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated In a message of <27 Jun 96 20:43:38>, MELVIN BILLIK (1:239/675) writes: MB>I taught at a flagship state university (Michigan State University) MB>in the math dept. from 1969-1972. MB>There were kids that came to class stoned (either drugs, MB>alcohol, or just staying up all night). MB>HOWEVER, MSU has over 40,000 students (I think). MB>Percentage-wise, it was extremely small -- maybe a dozen students at MB>most in my 3-year tenure there. That was a very different era. Vietnam, the draft, the drug culture. It's a different world today. --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400013 Date: 06/30/96 From: KEITH SLATER Time: 5:00/am \/To: FRANK TOPPING (Read 4 times) Subj: Grade school drugs FT>You might asvise the family to contact Alanon Family Groups FT>about referals. Frank- Thank you. We know nothing about help. I'm not sure the family knows all they might do. --- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400014 Date: 06/30/96 From: TOM COTTON Time: 05:59am \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 3 times) Subj: Evolution CB>Quotes are taken from a message written by Tom to Charles on 06/05/96... CB>TC>I would very much prefer the schools not teach morality in either >TC>direction. Teaching a child it is OK to be a thief is not my idea of >TC>proper education, but then that could be a cultural difference. CB>The proposition I posted which prompted this response was not really >fair nor rational, in retrospect. I was trying to make the point that >the cost of weeding out cheaters in our school lunch program might >exceed the cost of allowing the dishonest to cheat. Neither case >(hunting down cheaters or allowing cheaters access to the program) is an >attempt by the government to "teach" morals as much as it is an attempt >to keep overhead down so the money gets to the hungry. While I understand the line of thought IMO IF, and that is a big IF, we would stop allowing the system to be misused by the not so needy. The truly hungry could have more funds for food and real basic needs could be met. We simply make cheating and receiving handout the expected norm and the public school systems perpetuate the process to great excess. CB>TC>CB>Can you explain further? What do you mean, "This is true," - what s >TC>>true? What was "just a provable example of waste?" >TC> >TC>The free lunch program is a provable example of waste, as is head tart, >TC>and other title one programs. Real long term benefit has yet to be >TC>proven unless your talking to those making money providing the >TC>services. CB>You say that the free lunch program and Head Start are a waste and that >this can be proven? I'm at a loss for words - this is totally >contradictory to everything I have read. Can you give me a hint as to >where you've seen this evidence? CSPAN primary source during discussions of educational issues and the actual overall results of head start. Educational material of course would give a rosy picture of title one as it is a source of funding and funding is power. I also have a friend that makes her living from these fundings in Michigan and a couple in Arkansas. All have through personal knowledge seen the head start "advantage" fade to little or nothing by the third or fourth grade. While the free lunch program does feed needy children, I have yet to have seen any unbiased assessment that it improves the educational process. In some cases it perhaps improves attendance which indirectly would make the educational aspect improve. >TC> >TC>Let us see now. The spending of BILLION's to EDUCATE illegal >TC>immigrants is has little to do with education. CB>Sarcasm doesn't win points - evidence does. My readings have not >pointed to "billions" in expenditures to educate illegal immigrants. >Once again, if you could point me in the direction of a responsible >source where I could verify this statistic? But more importantly, the >issue here isn't whether children should be educated, but what we should >do about the illegal immigration problem. Education is but a small >piece of that puzzle. When I ask myself the question whether I would >rather have the children of illegal immigrants starving and living in >the alleys of our cities or attending school and getting at least one >decent meal every day, I guess I prefer the latter. But that's just me. Your right, SARCASM does not win points. Neither does the poor starving child BS. :) Education and Free lunch, Free Medical, Free better life is what lure the illegal's in. If you want the dollar statistics write to the California educational facilities, or Texas, or New Mexico, or Florida, or probably any state in the US. The schools are the primary access point for the freebies and are very much the key to the reduction of illegal immigrants. IMO those who want to educate them should moved to where they come from and set up schools for these poor individuals. I am one of the America First types. When every child of US citizenship is receiving and adequate education, medical care and food. Then and only then do we extend these privileges of U.S. citizenship to others. TC ___ X QMPro 1.53 X All rising to a great place is by a winding stair. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: North East Texas Datalink (1:3819/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400015 Date: 06/30/96 From: TOM COTTON Time: 06:16am \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 3 times) Subj: National Curriculum CB>Quotes are taken from a message written by Tom to Charles on 06/05/96... CB>TC>CB>Setting standards that do not force our schools to move forward would >TC>>a waste of time. >TC> >TC>You make two key points here. The first is setting standards and not >TC>forcing compliance is a waste of time. CB>I disagree. If the standards are worthy of consideration, they will be >adopted. It's cheaper for the Federal Government to sponsor it once >than for all 50 states to repeat the process themselves. A ready made >curriculum and corresponding evaluation plans would save the state >education departments a heap of developmental funding. At what cost in relation to local control ? Since the bulk of funding is from local taxation I believe those who pay the bills should control the curriculum to some extent. The fastest way to screw something up is to put the Federal Government behind the wheel. CB>TC>The state of Arkansas on three >TC>occasions I know of tried to raise standards and was sued by the good >TC>ole NAACP. CB>I have not heard about this. Was the NAACP successful in its suits? >What was their point? Yes they were successful. Their point was that minority students were unjustly being excluded from Honors and Advanced Placement curriculum choices by having prerequisite curricular and grade point requirements in place. They did loose one case however as it never made it to court. They were trying to block the raising of the grade point requirement to participate in sports activities. It had always been a 1.5 GPA and the state raised it to 2.0 GPA. A 2.0 in regular courses means you need only about a 50% comprehension if that. CB>I agree that some local control is important - and it is a part of our >heritage. But I disagree that a set of quality standards won't be >adopted (in large measure) by most school districts. If the standards >and assessments are well formulated, districts will jump at the chance >to raise standards when local lawsuits and griping will be minimized >because of widespread acceptance. I think Shiela pointed out one possible downfall would be that lesser districts would not want to adopt such standards. IMO it will not be in the foreseeable future as a National anything to most seems to be a RED flag. The mood of the overall country is not very receptive or at least that is my view from here. TC ___ X QMPro 1.53 X All rising to a great place is by a winding stair. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: North East Texas Datalink (1:3819/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DB400016 Date: 06/30/96 From: TOM COTTON Time: 12:00am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum >2. They turn a blind eye to all evidence presented to them, preferring >to believe steadfastly in what mom&dad have always told them. This >reminds me a bit of Limbaughian Dittoheads? You mean you don't watch RUSH :) :). He comes on too early here, even for me. ___ X QMPro 1.53 X All rising to a great place is by a winding stair. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: North East Texas Datalink (1:3819/128)