--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00006 Date: 06/24/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:16pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: SAT CB> In contrast, the two exams that most commonly serve as a gateway to CB> college CB> in the United States, the SAT and ACT, are not based on the CB> curriculum CB> students study in school. The math part of the SAT _is_ based heavily on the coursework college-bound students normally take. If a HS student learns algebra and geometry well in those HS courses, he'll do well on the math SAT. And if he does poorly in his HS algebra and geometry courses, he'll do poorly on the math SAT. (A student who doesn't take geometry will do poorly on the math SAT, due to the many questions that are geometry problems.) CB> College-bound students in the United States are not required to take CB> any CB> advanced subject-specific exams. This isn't true. At least in the late 70s, Duke required applicants to take the SAT achievement test in English. (Applicants were also required to take 2 other SAT achievement tests of their own choosing.) --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00007 Date: 06/24/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:21pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated CB> My actual stroll through the research on the effect of class size on CB> student success in the classroom (K-12) was about 25 years ago, but CB> even CB> at that time, there were a number of well-done studies to research. CB> The CB> problem was, the results were confoundingly contradictory. When I was in elementary school (about that time!), class sizes of 35 were the _norm_. And that wasn't due to poverty or lack of funding, since that was in a rich suburb with high school taxes. Preoccupation with class size is a very recent event. I don't remember anyone clamoring for smaller-than-35 classes at the elementary level until I was a junior in HS. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00008 Date: 06/24/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:24pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum CB> TC>The state of Arkansas on three CB> TC>occasions I know of tried to raise standards and was sued by the CB> good CB> TC>ole NAACP. CB> CB> I have not heard about this. Was the NAACP successful in its suits? Does it matter whether the NAACP won? Down here, this state faced disputes by activists claiming its then-new HS competency-for-graduation test was "racist" because a higher share of blacks than whites failed it. Disputes like this, regardless of who 'wins', discourage high standards because officials fear disputes or litigation. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00009 Date: 06/23/96 From: DAVE MAINWARING Time: 07:55pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: TECHNOLOGY IN THE CLASSR SK>I know that Chuck Beams and some others have said that I'll be SK>disturbed during teaching time with people asking me to fix SK>things for them. I guess so, but I have a hard time imagining SK>anyone doing that. Oh well, the first time it happens I guess I'm encountering the informal "can you help me with.." at work. I've established two stock answers. First if its something that takes time to figure out the answer and the person asking is trying to avoid that extra effort by trying to get me to figure out the solution I say quite honestly that I don't know... For those times that I'm asked for help because the person hasn't bothered to learn when previous help has been delivered I simply offer to help at the end of the day when work is finished. This usually results in the person looking for their own notes or solving the problem on their own. Are libraries called libraries or are they dubbed media centers? Needham;s library has certainly taken the lead in helping all library users from senior retirees to grade school kids to use the InterNet and the new array of CDs. --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: SpaceMet-Internet (telnet 128.119.50.48) Amherst, MA (1:321/120) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00010 Date: 06/24/96 From: MORT STERNHEIM Time: 09:43pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated In a message of <16 Jun 96 17:44:24>, Matt Smith (1:3644/6) writes: MS> College teaching comes with unique discipline problems that ES MS>teachers do not face. Have you ever had half your 9:00 A.M. class come MS>in drunk? (It's common in colleges.) Excessive partying is a major I don't know where you went to school, but I have been teaching at the college level for over 30 years, and I have never seen a drunk student in class. Ever. MS>factor in _college_ students flunking out, according to various studies MS>(and the experiences of most profs). Administrators hassle profs when MS>they give too many low grades, many of which are drinking-related. We flunk lots of physics students. We never get complaints from administrators. MS> While college kids will generally stay seated once they get to MS>class, many just cut class. If many students get low grades due to MS>cutting class, the administration blames the prof...not the student. Mot in my university. MS> MS>SK> volition. Try teaching a 2nd or 3rd grade class of sixty kids. MS>SK> Please. MS>SK> Try it. Let us know what happens. MS> MS> I know. I wandered around the room as a kid in kindergarten, due MS>to being bored stiff with the material read by a teacher who badgered MS>my mother for having taught me to _read_ before school age. (My MS>first-grade teacher avoided the problem by simply sending me to the MS>library during what was "story time" for the rest of the class!) Matt, I am always amazed at how much you think you know and by how much you extrapolate from your own very limited experiences and perspectives. I have been working very closely with teachers for a decade, running summer institutes, etc., as well as operating fidonet and internet host services. I am amazed at what we ask teachers to do with minimal support. At the college level, nobody is forced to be in school at all unless they want to be. (The draft ended a long time ago.) School teachers deal with large classes of kids with very diverse abilities and achievement levels. Some don't speak much English; others have substantial disabilities or psychological problems. I am awed at what they are asked to accomplish. Sure, not all of the teachers are as outstanding as we would like, but that's true in any profession. I certainly don't envy their job, and certainly not for the pay most of them get. --- msged 1.97S ZTC * Origin: PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA (413)256-1037 (1:321/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAU00011 Date: 06/24/96 From: DAN TRIPLETT Time: 10:57pm \/To: ALL (Read 4 times) Subj: Technology In Classroom I would have to agree that there is an educational value to having computers in the classroom, provided the use is truly educational. Some of the technological advances are merely "cute" things that computers can do. For instance, the internet may provide the user with a variety of sources for information but it is hardly as useful as a dual speed cd Rom with an encyclopedia. Multi-media cdroms can provide information so much faster and images can be down loaded to be included in student's "electronic" reports. The internet is slow and all too often a search takes many, many tries. I know of educators that spend too much time exploring the novelties of the WWW. If I need information about a given subject Ill look it up in my old World Book. One other thought I have regarding technology. If anyone has read the book by Jerry Mander _In The Absence Of The Sacred_ (The failure of technology and the survival of the Indian nations) it is worth reading and worth discussing it's contents. (Same author wrote _ Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television_ ) Below is a quote from the book: "Modern technology advanced in such tiny increments for so long that we never realized how much our world was being altered, or the ultimate direction of the process. But now the speed of change is accelerating logarithmically. It is apparent that developing a language and set of standards by which to assess technological impact, and to block it where necessary, is a critical survival skill of our times". Thoughts anyone?? Dan * CMPQwk #1.42* Only unregistered because they lost my check and I have been waiting for word for over 2 months! Know of any better Qwk readers for windows?? --- GEcho 1.11+ * Origin: The South Bay Forum - Olympia, WA (360) 923-0866 (1:352/256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAV00000 Date: 06/25/96 From: MELVIN BILLIK Time: 09:13pm \/To: CHARLES BEAMS (Read 4 times) Subj: Class Size Over-Rated Chuck: Certainly the study makes sense. In fact, it certainly makes sense that a smaller class size -- hence a higher teacher:student ratio -- would be most helpful. But, keep in mind that I am really writing this post from my perspective as a high school teacher (mathematics) for about 27 years. I realize my information is merely anecdotal. But, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL, I submit that there is certainly a correlation between success and class size (smaller size tending towards increased success). But that correlation is a loose one. I have just had so many joyful classes that were large, but had a great mix of students. In other words, what I like to call the "right chemistry." On the other hand, I have had smaller classes that just didn't jell. Perhaps things were just oo dull. It was the wrong mix. We didn't have the critical mass to really move forward. Anyway, that's just my perception. Based on the input from others, it would seem that there is a much more significant correlation at the elementary levels. (Please ignore typos -- my editor is malfunctioning!) Mel --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: MEG*A*BITE : CD-ROM Drives for Sysops! (1:239/675) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAV00001 Date: 06/25/96 From: MELVIN BILLIK Time: 09:18pm \/To: MORT STERNHEIM (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: Class Size Over-Rated -> MS> College teaching comes with unique discipline problems that ES -> MS>teachers do not face. Have you ever had half your 9:00 A.M. -> class come MS>in drunk? (It's common in colleges.) Excessive -> partying is a major -> I don't know where you went to school, but I have been teaching at -> the college level for over 30 years, and I have never seen a drunk -> student in class. Ever. Interesting exchange. I now teach high school, but I taught in college for 3 years. From my experience, I think I can safely say that the answer lies somewhere in between! Mel --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: MEG*A*BITE : CD-ROM Drives for Sysops! (1:239/675) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAV00002 Date: 06/24/96 From: RANDY EDWARDS Time: 03:30pm \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: Technology In Classroom RM>And when it's all said and done, what benefit has accrued? RM>It may spark interest, but how interesting does it become RM>if you're simply using the Internet as an Encyclopedia? Shhh! You're making too much sense Ron. :-) Seriously, you raise a LOT of good points about computers in the classroom that ought to be given serious consideration by more people. . Randy (an admitted computer junkie) * SLMR 2.1a * Republican's contract: Capitalism with no safety net! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Wormhole II * 802-626-8809 * Lyndonville, VT (1:325/802) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAV00003 Date: 06/24/96 From: DONNA RANSDELL Time: 08:59pm \/To: ROBERT BUTLER (Read 3 times) Subj: can you help... Hi, I believe you mentioned that you are a school band director? Maybe you can help me with a problem... I used to have a catalog here somewhere from a place called National Music Supply (or something like that). They carried all kinds of stuff of interest to band and other music teachers. Do you happen to have their address (or maybe even just a location or a phone number) that you could share with me? We're looking for some professional equipment, and my traditional music teaching sources don't carry the quality I want. If you could help, I'd sure appreciate it! -donna --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: I touch the future; I teach. (1:202/211)