--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00005 Date: 06/21/96 From: ARTHUR ABEL Time: 09:32am \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 2 times) Subj: Technology in Classroom SK> I am out of my element in SK> subjects outside of math, but it seems to me that for any class in SK> math Algebra I or below, computers are really not necessary. Hear! Hear! SK> I do see SK> where they can be quite helpful for classes like Geometry and Calculus SK> where visualization is important and traditional paper and pencil do SK> not allow demonstration as well as computer animation does for certain SK> topics. My older son has recently been experimenting (at home) with using Power Point to demonstrate Course II (geometry) applications, theorems, proofs, etc. He is impressed at what he can do with it as a teaching technique, especially since his school has a computer projector which enables one to present it clearly on a large screen. I expect he will start using it in class next fall. SK> Tom Cotton has brought up several times in the past how computers SK> could effectively administer tests and score them for teachers, SK> tracking student strengths and weaknesses. I haven't personally seen SK> the software that will do this. Again my son has created tests on spreadsheets that students with computers could take and get immediate scoring on from macros that he creates for them. It should be no problem to turn this kind of thing into software packages that schools or teachers could obtain. He learned these techniques when he worked for a year for Xerox as a number cruncher. His knowledge of mathematics enabled him to create formulas for cells that would give the company immediate results from figures and facts fed into the computer. He saw how these techniques could be applied to applications in the teaching of math. SK> I believe that Ken Blystone has from SK> time to time mentioned that the computers at his school do this type of SK> thing. I'd want to see it though, before I'd be convinced that it is as SK> good as a human teacher can do. I believe it is entirely possible. It SK> just hasn't been well implemented yet. I have long been fascinated by the claims that Ken makes for his "virtual schools." I just question how effectively they can be applied to all segments of the learning population. SK> When am I going to fit in time to teach SK> spreadsheets? I would hardly expect you to. I was referring to quick occasional in-class demonstrations as a possible way to motivate students to see the relevance of what they have to learn to the world in which many of them will have to work. SK> I agree. I find that the block scheduling idea which causes you to SK> have to teach less material is not really acceptable. They use block scheduling in the Brockport, NY, school where my son teaches. Teachers see classes for 80 minute periods every other day supposedly. In reality, however, with holidays, conference days, and other interruptions, a teacher may see a class only twice in 6-8 days. In Sacramento, the block scheduling is used four days a week, with Mondays being a regular schedule where all classes meet for 40 minute periods. Many teachers use the shorter day for quizzes, tests, or special kinds of instruction which would be a normal part of the curriculum anyhow. [Actually the Monday idea could become an X day that could be used on other occasions to guarantee that teachers would see classes a sufficient number of times.] The block scheduling seems to be popular with teachers, students, and parents, but it has drawbacks, as I told you. SK> Schools need to first justify why SK> they need the technology and what they hope to accomplish with it. Then Hear! Hear! This was my biggest concern with and objection to the school budget presented by our Board of Education this year. Their proposition asking approval for 2.5 million dollars for upgrading computer technology in the schools was defeated by an almost 4-1 vote. Part of the reason (in my own case, at least) was the lack of specificity as to how this technology would be used instructionally. SK> Schools cannot SK> teach cutting edge technology. Students can learn this type of stuff in SK> Vo-Tech schools after high school graduation. I agree. Even if schools can teach it, should they in view of the constraints it will impose on other curricula and programs? SK> But, SK> when some students have families that can afford this type of thing in SK> their home and others cannot, this certainly doesn't help towards SK> leveling the playing field? While I appreciate your concern in this regard, I suspect the truth is more analogous to automobiles. Because some families can afford Cadillacs doesn't really enable them to go more places or travel farther than people who can only afford Chevrolet Geos. The playing field will never be totally level for all in the sense that all should be able to have the same things or perform everything as well. However, all can have an understanding of how the game is played. I still can use my old IBM 8086 with First Choice to do most of the computer functions. I also suspect we have shown a tremendous lack of imagination in organizing ways to enable all to play the game. --Art-- --- * Origin: The Greece Education BBS (581-0487) (1:2613/380) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00006 Date: 06/21/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 09:46am \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: TECHNOLOGY IN THE CLASSR -> I don't think I expressed myself clearly enough... I don't -> think it's so much that she will place fault at your door, -> so much as it is an attitude that she doesn't need to be -> bothered to learn or be self-sufficient since you're going -> to be around to "fix" everything... Like it or not, you're -> now the "computer gal" for the school, Oh, ok. I see what you're saying here now. I don't think I'm the "computer gal" for the school, though. Our school is pretty large. We have 14 math teachers alone. Over 100 faculty, and over 2000 students registered for school next year. No WAY I can be the computer gal for the school. (We actually have several persons who are perceived as computer "experts" in different departments of the school, and some classified staff who maintain different computers in different parts of the school.) Now, if you'd said I was "computer gal" for the MATH dept, that would probably be fairly accurate. Although I am fortunate to have several dept. members who are fairly competent about the machine. I know that Chuck Beams and some others have said that I'll be disturbed during teaching time with people asking me to fix things for them. I guess so, but I have a hard time imagining anyone doing that. Oh well, the first time it happens I guess I'm honor bound to report it here so that others can say "I told you so". Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00007 Date: 06/21/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 09:58am \/To: RON MCDERMOTT (Read 3 times) Subj: TECHNOLOGY IN CLASSROOM -> To add the Internet as a reference source or interest source, -> requires -> that something ELSE be cut! It ALSO requires teachers to -> spend the time to become knowledgeable; not because it's of -> any use to THEM, Actually, the Internet can be very useful for teachers, and this is the tack we are taking with out department currently. We are trying to encourage the math teachers to get on line and use the Web to find things that will assist them in their teaching (such as lesson plans, projects and activities, software, visual/graphic aids and the like). Since we have only one computer, this seems to be the best way to go at this time. I know it wasn't your point that the Internet is NOT helpful for teachers, but I couldn't resist this opportunity to point out that it is possibly more beneficial for teachers to use it as a resource than for them to try to incorporate its use directly into the classroom with students on-line. -> but simply because they need to be able to deal with any problems -> which occur - AND - Also take time to -> oversee the activities because of various safety concerns. -> This means an additional hour or more added to an already -> packed day, not to mention MANY hours learning themselves. Actually, once the software for connecting is set up (which does take HOURs if there are any problems. I know...from personal experience), learning how to get on the Web and browse around doesn't take that many hours. Now, actually learning how to find something useful instead of simply going off joy-linking may take a bit more time. BUT, as far as appropriate access and teachers supervising,... Next year we're going to have some sort of Internet access for our students through the LIBRARY. This seems very appropriate to me. Librarians see the Internet as Information, and they are in the business of helping to organize and help people access information. Seems that anyone in a library career these days is extremely interested in the Internet. Rather than burden the teachers with being responsible for getting the kids on-line, especially since teachers already have their subject area to prepare for, seems more logical to put responsibility for the Internet under the library's umbrella. -> And when it's all said and done, what benefit has accrued? -> It may spark interest, but how interesting does it become -> if you're simply using the Internet as an Encyclopedia? I would be the first to caution against overestimating the benefit that can come from computer resources. But the Internet is far more than an Encyclopedia (I get the impression you haven't been on the Web very much?), and you know that for some kids, sparking the interest can make all the difference in whether they succeed or not. I find myself having a hard time arguing from both sides of the fence.... -> And not all kids LIKE computers! My son will sit and surf -> all day, but my daughter would rather be out with her -> friends - For her, enforced computer use would be a CHORE, -> not a fun activity... We're contemplating elevating (or, -> rather, adding) computer use to the level of reading, math, -> etc (I doubt they get more than an hour a day), which is, -> imo, overkill. If, otoh, we're talking once a week or -> something (kind of like gym), is it worth all the effort? I think the computer should be seen as a tool, much like a typewriter (in days of yore!), or a xerox machine, or a VCR or movie projector, etc... If there is something that you (or a student) wants to accomplish and the computer is the best way to do it, then use it. I'm sure even your daughter would agree with that. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00008 Date: 06/21/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 10:02am \/To: RICK PEDLEY (Read 3 times) Subj: 'Puter-Tech Curriculm 1/ -> (Tech mutes at his end, unable to control laughter. The caller had -> been using the load drawer of his CD-ROM drive as a cup holder, and -> had snapped it off the drive.) Geez, that's one expensive drink holder. :-P Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00009 Date: 06/21/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 10:06am \/To: DAVE MAINWARING (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum Hi Dave, I thought you'd left us (haven't seen your posts for a while). Good to see you're still around. -> How often do kids stand up an quote their parent as the "authority" -> and are conflicted to learn that what daddy or mommy told them was to -> say the least inaccurate? ...... -> How much does having accuracy-challenged information from parents -> inpact a kids ability to accept new information from teachers? An interesting question. Not that I have any experience with that type of thing. If I taught in a more subjective subject area, I might have more interesting experiences with that. But math tends to be primarily objective. I would suppose that one of two things must eventually happen for such a student: 1. They eventually become convinced by the supporting evidence that mom&dad were wrong, and they become disillusioned with their parents and their parents' beliefs. OR 2. They turn a blind eye to all evidence presented to them, preferring to believe steadfastly in what mom&dad have always told them. This reminds me a bit of Limbaughian Dittoheads? Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00010 Date: 06/20/96 From: DONNA RANSDELL Time: 01:40pm \/To: VIRGINIA BLALOCK (Read 2 times) Subj: California Class Size > In Texas, they have rules about student/teacher > ratios depending on the grade level. I think it is 1/22 or something like > that in k-4 and slightly higher after that.. I never had more than 22 > or 23 students when I taught 4th grade. We have rules in California too, but I wish ours were as low as yours. Elementary schools can go to 32 (33 in some grade levels). More than that, and the schools can be fined for each class that exceeds that level. (Some schools just pay it, tho...if only one class exceeds the level, it's cheaper to pay the fine than it is to hire a teacher.) -donna --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: I touch the future; I teach. (1:202/211) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00011 Date: 06/20/96 From: DONNA RANSDELL Time: 01:48pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 2 times) Subj: Class Size Over-Rated > Not one single kid in your classes of 14 ever had > to repeat the grade? Were you teaching gifted kids > only? No, and no. But I *was* teaching at a Christian school in that instance. However, I've had other experiences with small classes. In Alaska, I had a class of 17 6th graders. Each of them passed on to 7th grade. One family decided to hold their 6th grader back - they didn't feel she was emotionally ready for junior high (and later they came to me and said that it was the best decision they'd ever made; I stress that this was a parent decision - not mine.) The following year, I moved down to 1st grade. I had 22 1st graders. Everyone of them moved on, and were ready to do so. Most of them read very well, because I had time to work with them individually. These were not GATE kids either. I did have one that might have qualified for GT (we didn't test til 3rd grade for that). OTOH, I taught Kindergarten in California. I had 32 in my class. It took so long just to do informal testing to see where each child was at, and I had no less than 8 in each little "reading" and "math" group, and not much time for each little group due to group size and whatelse had to go into the school day. I don't think I ever knew any of my kindergarteners as well as I knew those kids in the smaller classes that I taught. Maybe statistics don't prove that class size and achievement are related. Statistics aren't everything - personal experience and comfort levels prove that they *are* related. -donna --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: I touch the future; I teach. (1:202/211) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00012 Date: 06/21/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:03pm \/To: ALL (Read 3 times) Subj: ISIS Is anyone familiar with a text-search program called Isis? How well does it work? Any special features? Who sells it? (CompUSA doesn't sell it.) Price? --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00013 Date: 06/21/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 11:07pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: Re: TECHNOLOGY IN THE CLASSR SK> I know that is one way of interpreting it. Somehow, though, I didn't SK> get SK> the feeling she meant that. Our administrators are usually SK> supportive. SK> They expect a lot from us in time and work, and we get lower pay SK> than teachers in public schools. If they went around backstabbing us SK> as SK> well, I don't see why anyone would want to continue working for them! That's the sorest point in the Guilford County Schools (next county). Teachers feel that the administration almost never backs them up. Some incidents have involved central-office people badgering individual teachers on dubious grounds. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAR00014 Date: 06/21/96 From: TOM COTTON Time: 12:00am \/To: DAVE MAINWARING (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum DM>How much does having accuracy-challenged information from >parents inpact a kids ability to accept new information >from teachers? Probably about the same as accuracy-challenged information from teachers impact the child's ability to accept new information from parents. Many if not most teachers are so narrowly focused they often can not see the forest for the trees. Only recently in our district has an effort been made to get different departments to interact for the benefit of the students. ___ X QMPro 1.53 X All rising to a great place is by a winding stair. --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: North East Texas Datalink (1:3819/128)