--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAD00010 Date: 06/09/96 From: SHEILA KING Time: 09:37am \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 4 times) Subj: Re: National Curriculum -> I'd see no reason why the GED "grad" is any less able, given what -> I've -> seen of the overwhelming majority of college freshmen who did -> graduate from a conventional HS program! Matt, I doubt you have enough familiarity with the GED test to make such statements. I know that I have had 10th graders who were mediocre students drop out from school and pass that test. (Thankfully, only a few isolated examples.) If they were able to take and pass that test without completing 10th grade, and clearly were they to have completed school through 12th grade would have meant they would have had additional preparation and knowledge, then they could NOT have been as well prepared by passing the GED as if they had completed 12th grade. Now, even completing 12th grade doesn't ensure they would be prepared for the university. But there you go using the converse of a statement to justify your position again. Your logic skills are so poor, you really need to go back and study your Boolean Algebra again. Sheila --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds...subjective reality? (1:218/804) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00000 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: MELVIN BILLIK (Read 4 times) Subj: CLASS SIZE OVER-RATED MB>I keep seeing references to class size. MB>And lord help us if the class size is near 30! MB>I guess I have a different take on this. MB>From my own experience in the classroom, I have found that MB>the correlation between class size and teaching effectiveness MB>is not nearly as strong as generally accepted. MB>As far as I'm concerned, it's the chemistry that counts. MB>Give me the right group of kids, and I'll have great results MB>with 50 in the classroom. MB>I have had classes of 15-20 kids that just didn't click. MB>We just didn't have the right "mix". MB>I've had classes of over 30 that were delightful. MB>Now, there still is a correlation, especially for lower track MB>classes. These classes tend to have students with shorter attention MB>spans who need more individual attention. Admittedly, as that class size MB>increases, you get a much higher probability of that good "chemistry" MB>deteriorating! MB>Any thoughts? Only that the larger the class may be, the more likely it is that the chemistry is going to a problem; especially when we are looking at heterogeneous groupings.... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * OS/2 WARP: The choice of the next generation. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00001 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 3 times) Subj: RACIAL PROBLEMS MS>SCHOOL'S CURRICULUM SPARKS RACIAL DISTURBANCE This appears to be some kind of article, but I'm not sure from whence it comes, or where your comments begin and the article's end? MS>Racial tensions that began over a student's swastika tattoo MS>grew later in the morning (6/4) as a result of an "African-American MS>heritage assembly" in which black students were encouraged to MS>participate in the exclusion of white students. I'm not sure I follow this... Do we mean "TO the exclusion", or did the assembly encourage that white students were to be excluded from the lives of black students, or....? If it was a "black only" assembly, it's a tough call; is it better to drag white students to an assembly for which they may have little interest, or to divide the school community arbitrarily, or does it even make any sense to set a precedent for white-only, black-only, asian-only, jewish- only, etc, assemblies? MS>The official school-district press statement made no mention MS>of racial tensions as a cause of the riot, but students did. This suggests that at least SOME of this is not from a news article? MS>How stupid can a big-city public school system be as to have MS>assemblies encouraging racial division in a school system where MS>racial disturbances have happened for two decades? Good intentions often go awry; we see it happen in education all too often.... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * OS/2 WARP: The choice of the next generation. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00002 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 3 times) Subj: SCHOOL UNIFORMS MS>A couple months ago, the national talk show "Left to Right" discussed MS>school uniforms after Bill Clinton said he favored them. MS>The conservative co-host called his old HS principal and asked his MS>opinion on the air. Uh huh... And the co-host just happened to have the number on hand and didn't have a CLUE as to what the guy might say in response... And while we're AT it, I'm sure there's absolutely NO way to confirm this guy was who or what he was purported to be? Why do you persist with this type of nonsense? Even if the guy was on the level, he could be senile for all we know?! In debating circles, this might be called "authoritative evidence", but it depends upon the acceptance of the authority for its evidenciary impact... I see NO value in this whatsoever! At least your own opinions, strange as they sometimes seem, do not purport to have any intrinsic value; this type of third-hand, anonymous, some-guy-told- me nonsense is useless..... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * WIN95: Start me up,...you can make a grown man cryyyyy! --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00003 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 3 times) Subj: TEXTBOOKS DT>To suggest so boldly that "most" teachers do not address different DT>learning styles betrays your ignorance. To suggest that computer, DT>on the other hand, can "easily" identify different learning styles DT>betrays it even more. What you are saying is not true. DT>If you say it is, then prove it. You must understand that Everett is, I believe, somewhere around high school age. His perceptions are purely his own, and limited both by experience and geographic isolation. Everett, if I am in error as to your age, I apologize; we see you here only rarely, and I am operating solely from memory on this..... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * OS/2 WARP...Opens up Windows, shuts up Gates. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00004 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: DAN TRIPLETT (Read 3 times) Subj: THE AMAZING HUMAN MIND DT>I am not a brilliant person but I do have a definite edge over my DT>computer (of which I play chess and often win), I know where the DT>off-switch is located . Having done so, I suspect you've had the same experience I have: The computer plays very tough up to a point, and then seems to turn "stupid" (for lack of a better adjective)? It's as if when you reach the end of the envelope, the computer simply doesn't have a clue as to how to proceed, and suddenly becomes a chess beginner! I think Deep Blue simply has a larger envelope than most computer chess programs. I wonder if Spassky reached a point where Deep Blue turned "stupid"? ___ * MR/2 2.26 * Get OS/2 WARP 3.0 - the best Windows tip around! --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00005 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:02pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 3 times) Subj: PROBLEMS LP>Is there something you could plant in your yard to encourage LP>the moose to leave? MS>He can ask any Eskimo up there about some of the neat traps they MS>use to kill wolves! Two comments: Firstly, wolves tend to be shot or poisoned, not "trapped", and an equally good "solution" would be to ATTRACT wolves (which would probably shoo the moose away)! Maybe a good wolf dummy in the backyard..... ;-) ___ * MR/2 2.26 * OS/2 WARP...Opens up Windows, shuts up Gates. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00006 Date: 06/09/96 From: RON MCDERMOTT Time: 05:20pm \/To: SHEILA KING (Read 3 times) Subj: CALIFORNIA CLASS SIZE SK>I should've replied to this message a lot sooner, as it seems to have SK>had an effect on several posts, but I've been too busy lately. (Seems a SK>lot of the teachers are busy with end of the year business, since the SK>number of posts here, especially from teachers, seems to have dwindled.) For sure! My exam is next Friday; I can't WAIT for this year to end! ;-) SK>Well, California has been going downhill lately. In March we SK>attained the 50 status on class size. California public schools SK>now have the largest average class size in the nation. SK>Definitely not something to be proud of, and completely tied SK>to taxes and politics. :-( RM> Whoof! I can't imagine a class of 50 students! Especially RM> with the behavior problems we're seeing these days! SK>I didn't express myself too clearly. I didn't mean that we had class SK>sizes of 50 students. I meant that in the state rankings, with the state SK>with lowest average class size first and state with highest average SK>class size last (i.e. 50th) California is now last on the list. Oh.... well.... nevermind then..... ;-) I guess that status is bad enough, and the bright side is that it isn't as bad as I THOUGHT (yet anyway)! SK>In the elementary schools, my daugher and son's 2nd and 4th SK>grade classes each had 31 students this year. It is my impression that SK>this is about the norm for elementary school class sizes, and I get the SK>impression from what I read here that most states have lower elementary SK>class sizes than that. We seem to be in the mid 20's in this area.... ___ * MR/2 2.26 * MSDOS&PCDOS&CP/M&WINDOWSI'LLFIDDLEWITHOS/2WOULDN'TYOU? --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4P1a * Origin: The Dolphin BBS Pleasant Valley NY 914-635-3303 (1:2624/302) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00007 Date: 06/08/96 From: MELVIN BILLIK Time: 04:39pm \/To: MATT SMITH (Read 4 times) Subj: RACIAL PROBLEMS -> How stupid can a big-city public school system be as to have -> assemblies encouraging racial division in a school system where -> racial disturbances have happened for two decades? Good point. I remember when I just started teaching in 1968-69 in New York. We had lots of racial problems. They attempted to have an assembly to promote racial harmony. They had an unknown speaker, never checked him out. He ended up talking about how the whites have kept the blacks down for decades, etc. etc. etc. Needless to say, the aim of promoting racial harmony was lost amid the riot that followed. The state police had to be called in and the school was closed for a few days, as I recollect. Next year, the principal was on a sabbatical; I don't think he ever returned. Meanwhile, there was about a 50% staff turnover. I left, too. I ended up getting a graduate degree. Although I was disenamored with teaching as a result of that situation, I tried it again in a much better teaching situation, and I've been happy with my career choice ever since. But, reading your note sure took me back almost 30 years!!! Mel --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: MEG*A*BITE : CD-ROM Drives for Sysops! (1:239/675) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 265 EDUCATOR Ref: DAE00008 Date: 06/09/96 From: MATT SMITH Time: 04:56pm \/To: MELVIN BILLIK (Read 5 times) Subj: Re: CLASS SIZE OVER-RATED MB> I keep seeing references to class size. MB> And lord help us if the class size is near 30! MB> I guess I have a different take on this. MB> From my own experience in the classroom, I have found that MB> the correlation between class size and teaching effectiveness MB> is not nearly as strong as generally accepted. MB> As far as I'm concerned, it's the chemistry that counts. MB> Give me the right group of kids, and I'll have great results MB> with 50 in the classroom. MB> I have had classes of 15-20 kids that just didn't click. Agreed. Look at typical college class sizes, particularly for the less-adjusted freshmen. Class size is quite often 60 or over for freshmen/sophomore courses, even at small classes...and classes smaller than 30 for freshmen-level courses are very rare. In spite of that, colleges manage to graduate 2/3 of freshmen within 5 years. --- Simplex BBS (v1.07.00Beta [DOS]) * Origin: NighthawkBBS, Burlington NC 910-228-7002 HST Dual (1:3644/6)