--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGC00000Date: 12/06/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 10:21am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Celery -=> Quoting Jane Kelley to George Lagergren <=- GL>Jane, I read an article that said celery is good at fixing GL> sore joints. JK> That is something I rarely eat. Did the article say "why", what JK> active ingredient there is in the stuff that does the trick on sore JK> joints? Offhand, I do not the ingredient(s) in celery which is beneficial for sore joints. Maybe, a herb book would have that info. JK> I'd love to know where glucosamine and chondroitin come from, for JK> instance. I do not know. By the way, how are your sore joints coming along? Does your natrapathic doctor have you on herbs to help with the liver function, too? ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGC00001Date: 12/04/97 From: CHRIS MCCARTHY Time: 02:09am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Thrush Um,, Uou sure you got the right person?? I Havnt got the fogiest idea what you are talking about.. Sorry.. Chris.... DS> There are formulas that contain garlic and capryllic acid which kill DS> candida..also LOTS of acidolphilus. The dr could have just given her DS> nystatin which would have killed it on contact or Nisoril...it's not DS> get rid of. Bet she had taken a round of antibiotics right? Rememb DS> acidolphilus. --- TriToss (tm) 1.03 - (Unregistered) * Origin: Hell BBS - Albion Park NSW Australia * (3:624/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGC00002Date: 12/06/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 06:56am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws Dia Spriggs wrote in a message to Alex Vasauskas: > For example, Car & Driver magazine has done studies of both > the DS> DS> Why in heavens name would Car & Driver do a study of substances DS> that are illegal in most places and only then under strict medical DS> supervision for some conditions? That's absurd..don't they have DS> anythign better to do? Like people should really know that when DS> they go out and do MJ and drive what the effect will be? As in DS> arrest for a controlled substance? It is irresponsible to perform an activity that is potentially hazardous to others while a person does not have his/her full faculties, whether due to intoxication, fatigue, or disease. However, the reason many people have problems with certain substances, particularly ones that are illegal, is that they don't know all of what to expect from the drug or how they should pay special attention to modify their behavior while they are being influenced by the drug. Their wrong choices, especially with illegal substances, are often due to a lack of reliable information regarding drug effects and the lack of an open example and discussion by others of socially approved behavior while under the influence. It is important for people to have reliable information regarding the effects of any substance they might take, whether it is legal or not, so that, if they are inclined to use something, they can prepare to act responsibly when they do it, such as having a designated driver. It is important for them to know more than whether or not a substance is legal because those with more mature cognitive development who are inclined to use a substance and who behave in their private lives according to moral right and wrong will distinguish the illegality brought about by prohibition as being politics that is unrelated to right and wrong. According to government figures, tens of millions of people use marijuana. According to the U.S. Dept. of Justice, ten million alone have been arrested for possessing it since 1965, and the current rate of arrest for marijuana possession is one every 49 seconds. Also, legal, medicinal use of marijuana is increasing. There are alot of people who can use reliable information about it. _Car & Driver_ should be respected for having had the temerity to have developed some of that information so that people could have some information on which to act responsibly rather potentially causing harm out of ignorance. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGC00003Date: 12/06/97 From: SHARON MCCORMICK Time: 05:02pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: It is happening again MP> SM>Kaiser (my health plan) puts out a home help type book, and recommend MP> SM>taking Robotussin (sp). My husband is out buying me some now. MP> MP> The nighttime versions of the OTC meds for cough and cold work quite MP> well. They are not "alternate" but neither is insomnia. It did work quite nicely! I keep lemon herb cough drops, and a galss of water by the bedside....between the nighttime med, and sips of water, with the occasional cough drop, I've actually been able to get some sleep! (my husband and two cats are also sleeping better!!) MP> Speedy recovery, and watch out for computer viruses. Thank you. I have never had a computer virus yet!! --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGC00004Date: 12/02/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 04:20pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy MP>VF> JK> And if you knew one whit about what I am saying, you would not MP>VF> JK> have written what you did. MP>VF>Uhhuh. Do you use ad-homimem attacks to try and buttress your weak MP>VF>arguments, or is this just an exception? MP>Hi Vern. Do not feel singled out. Yup. He knows just about as much about chemical dependency as you do. Nada. * SLMR 2.1a * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGD00000Date: 12/04/97 From: VERN FAULKNER Time: 07:08pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Suicides JK> substances are what you term "suicidal". They are not mentally ill, they JK> are physically sick which has in turn affected their minds. VF>Are you now saying that all suicidal people have to be under the influence VF> of mind-altering substances? Most of the suicidal [...] are depressed. JK> Which is why some of them use mind-altering substances, and "why" Some, but not all. Even those that are using mind-altering substances have obviously failed to cope with some nature of human existence with normal, non-destructive methods - and it could be argued that they are thus mentally ill to begin with. Certainly, if they are unable to control the use of those substances without presenting a danger to themselves, they aren't competent decision makers, are they? JK> doctors prescribe them. Just what do you classify Prozac or Valium JK> as, incidently, if they are not mind-altering substances? From what little knowledge I have of such things, Valium is not a psychoactive chemical. VF>And if they aren't? JK> Then figure out what else is wrong with their body chemistry and attempt JK> to intervene in the process going on inside the brain that leads them to And what happens if they aren't abnormal in terms of body chemistry? People who are depressed are often quite normal in terms of brain chemistry - other than a few things indicating lack of endorphins and so on.... re: your previous adhominem attack: JK> This is just a statement of fact. [Comment about hard chairs removed] No. A statement of fact usually has factical content, not a statement of opinion with a veiled ad hominem. You think I know nothing. You're welcome to that opinion. I, however, feel you're wrong. Now, if you want to provide me some evidence which gets to the original point, I'll be welcome to entertain it. And get to the basic core, too: don't dance in the periphery dealing with people who have chemical imbalances, and the like. We're talking normal humans who kill themselves - or want to. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Fox n' Dragon Inn BBS (472-8313, Victoria, BC) (1:340/44) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGD00001Date: 12/04/97 From: VERN FAULKNER Time: 07:13pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws JK> It is not the legality of any drug which makes it dangerous. Illegal So you have now changed your tune from the original comment which caught my attention. Legality does not make a drug safe or otherwise. JK> drugs do not have the same high standards in manufacture that legal Well-grown pot could very well be organic. And have people sing Bob Dylan tunes in order to elevate the plants happines.... JK> counterfeited. What is claimed to be in a capsule sold on the streets JK> as an ampetamine may be many other things including poison. This has nothing to do with the danger present to the chemicals themselves. You're confusing the function of human nature (ie: altering materials for profit) with the actual basis for legality. For what its worth, booze - a legal substance that you still haven't outright decried as unhealthy, and in fact suggested it is healthy because it is regulated and legal - was, and is, often spiked with other materials, home-brewed, and the like. Ergo, the fact that it is a legal substance has no effect on its potency or danger. Aqua Velva is legal, too - and people drink that. According to your views, this means that Aqua Velva is healthy, correct? JK> Anyone who takes illegal drugs has only themselves to blame when JK> something goes very wrong. Such as the coma that Karen Ann Quinlan was Ah. But those who get themselves drunk on Goverment-taxed Jack Daniels, and either drive into some pedestrians later, or go home to beat up the wife for the fourth time that month: well, that's okay because the product they consumed was legal? JK> in for years after a teenage party. One dose of an illegal drug can JK> cause permanent paralysis or worse. One dose of a legal drug can do the same thing. Hell, I wouldn't drive after a dose of Dextromethorphin. I know many people would. JK> Look Junior, I am getting a bit weary of your same old, same old theme. Another ad-hominem attack? I don't believe I'd mentioned my age - so your attempt to belittle me on that basis is somewhat odd. Even so, it would simply be a matter of age-related prejudice, and utterly irellevent to the content of my arguments. The "old theme" is being raised simply because you haven't actually answered the critical points I have brought to bear. JK> someone else, then so be it. You will one day find out just how smart JK> you aren't. There's an old chap who stated "the wise man is one who realizes he knows nothing." Happens to be an idol of mine. Noted for creating a method of inquiry designed to make people realize that what they say isn't what they mean, and what they mean, they don't understand. So. Answer me the question, and we can move onwards: Exactly what - in the current system of law and medicine - does the legality of a material have to do with its effect on the human body, and its potential social harms? And if you fail to answer _again_, I'll merely proceed to ask the same question in a different manner, your lack of politeness and civility to me notwithstanding. You have made a claim, then countered it with the exact opposite, then you've gone back. I've lost track of what your actual opinion on legality of chemicals is, and the reasons for them. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: Fox n' Dragon Inn BBS (472-8313, Victoria, BC) (1:340/44) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGD00002Date: 12/08/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:26am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: She's Back MP>JK>MP>Jane's back. MP>JK>You noticed. MP>Where have you been? Struggling with softwear and lousy modems. The new one I bought came apart in the hands of the clerk when I returned it! Honest. So much for competition in the world market. I had changed software, didn't like the new modem programs one whit, and decided if I had to drop back to my old modem to re-intall the software I have used quite nicely for at least three years now, Telix and SLMR. I could not remember all of the settings which of course I didn't write down because any idiot should be able to do something that simple. I finally figured it all out and am back on line. This time around I have made notes. --- SLMR 2.1a This tagline is umop apisdn * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGD00003Date: 12/08/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:26am \/To: TED BARNES (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy TB> JK> I once watched an officious doctor take control of the case where a TB> JK> man was admitted after a car accident with a blood alcohol level of TB> JK> .450. The doctor ordered him to stop drinking and expected him to TB> JK> comply. It took another auto accident for the man to get into an TB> JK> inpatient treatment agency. And yes, alcoholics can walk around, drive TB>Jane You have already stated "you cannot scare an addict to stop" TB>Well it would seem some fear was involved in this case no? Not as much fear as economic insecurity. The insurer cancelled the policy for his employer as he was a truck driver when the report hit someone's desk there. Finding another job driving a truck after a D.W. I. charge isn't easy in this state. Scaring an addict directly isn't possible. They are the unique exception to every rule there is. Only when they stop being terminally unique can they recover. --- SLMR 2.1a hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EGD00004Date: 12/08/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:26am \/To: SHARON MCCORMICK (Read 1 times) Subj: It Is Happening Again SM>on alternative medicine.....I've been taking Goldenseal for a really SM>nasty cough and congestion, been going on for weeks now it seems...not SM>too bad during the day, but at night I don't get much sleep for long SM>coughing fits that have my chest and throat really sore. I don't have a SM>good indication of how much goldenseal would be too much...so I've kept SM>it to about 2 a day, can you help on this? I would suggest that you get in for a checkup by someone at the HMO and keep at them until someone figures out what is wrong with you and what to do about it. It is past time for any book on the subject such as you mentioned in your post. I had an HMO, Group Health, until they shinned me off repeatedly when I came in with certain symptoms. I went to a female doctor at Chec Medical and she sent me to another female doctor at the University of Washington Clinic. There I found out what was really wrong with me. In the meantime, I had been fed several prescriptions of antibiotics for a non existent infection. That pretty well ruined my immune system and I had one interesting time pulling myself out of the result of the cost saving trend of that HMO. I will never darken their door again for any reason. --- SLMR 2.1a All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound? * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255)