--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300002Date: 12/01/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 12:53pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws Jane Kelley wrote in a message to David Loudenback: DL>It baffles me that alcohol is legal and kills thousands every year, and DL>the "ellicit drug" marijuana is outlawed and there has never been a DL>documented case of death by it. If anything, alcohol should be illegal. JK> The combination of the two is very deadly, especially in JK> youngsters. It managed to kill several members of one daughter's JK> high school class before their graduation. I knew some of those JK> kids. JK> The rate that the alcohol stops affecting the body is different JK> than that of the pot. When they are combined, there is some JK> terrible effect in the wee hours of the morning with a teenaged JK> stoned driver behind the wheel of some very fast car. This is begging for elaboration and correction of Jane's unfounded and misleading marijuana info. I will be happy to start in again just to set the record straight. For example, Car & Driver magazine has done studies of both the effects of alcohol and marijuana on driving. Both of these substances are used as home remedies in lieu of mainstream medicine for, among other things, stress-relief. The test results of Car & Driver's 1980 marijuana study demonstrated that marijuana intoxication did not significantly impair driving. (Car & Driver, June 1980, Volume 25, Number 12, Title: "Puff, the Dangerous Driver", page 43). The article concluded that driving while intoxicated by marijuana was bad, although there was no substantial evidence to support this in the article except gratuitous opinion. The inconsistent opinion was obviously included as a sop to political correctness. Compared to the previous driving and drinking test conducted by the same magazine two years previously, there was *very* little degradation of lap-times or driving ability under marijuana intoxication. A similar test previously conducted by Canada Track and Traffic had similar results except that they did not gratuitously come to similar conclusions about "dangers," perhaps because of the lower level of scare-propaganda extant during that period in canada. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300003Date: 12/02/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 12:43pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Celery Jane, I read an article that said celery is good at fixing sore joints. ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300004Date: 12/02/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 12:43pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Anti Codex Library Burned More info in ref to codex treaty try to ban dietary supplements. -=> Quoting Klynch@intrepid.net to <=- Kl> Subject: Anti Codex Library Burned to Ground: Jeoparizes Dietary Kl> Supplement Freedom Fight Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Kl> Organization: Texas Networking, Inc. Kl> Message-ID: <3483913a.109005979@news.texas.net> Kl> ANTI CODEX LIBRARY BURNED TO GROUND Kl> SUSPICIOUS FIRE GUTS LAW LOFT/AMERICAN FREEDOM NETWORK Kl> DIETARY SUPPLEMENT CONSUMERS PLACED IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY Kl> HELP BADLY NEEDED FOR HARRIS AND LUDWELL Kl> by John C. Hammell, legislative advocate, Kl> International Advocates for Health Freedom Kl> 2411 Monroe St. Hollywood, FL 33020 Kl> 800-333-2553, 954-929-0507 fax, jham@concentric.net Kl> http://www.pnc.com.au/~cafmr/hammell/index.html Kl> A suspicious fire which occurred on Saturday night, November 29th in Kl> Johnstown, Colorado gutted the building housing the Law Loft- home of Kl> anti Codex researchers Suzanne Harris,JD and Peter Ludwell along with Kl> Patriot Radio Station KHNC- the American Freedom Network. The Colorado Kl> State Police Arson Squad is currently conducting an investigation. Kl> The fire occurred just a short time after the Law Loft's research Kl> enabled IAHF and the grass roots to conduct a successful Washington Kl> lobbying campaign to get dietary supplements specifically exempted Kl> from the harmonization language in the FDA Reform Bill. Prior to being Kl> amended this language threatened to harmonize our food and drug laws Kl> with those of the European Union (where dietary supplements are Kl> regulated as drugs.) Kl> Dietary supplement consumers have been put in real jeopardy by the Kl> displacement of Harris and Ludwell from their home/office by the fire Kl> which destroyed their computer, hard to find books, and crates full of Kl> documents, which have been critical in our battle for health freedom. Kl> Although Harris and Ludwell were in Denver at the time of the fire so Kl> are unharmed, they just called me from a motel and all they have is Kl> the clothes on their backs- they don't even have a toothbrush. Their Kl> dog and six cats perished in the blaze, along with all of their Kl> personal effects. They told me that the brick building had been Kl> totally gutted, and that it resembled the burned out shell of Kl> buildings bombed during WWII. Kl> They badly need our help, or we will lose their invaluable assistance Kl> in our fight to maintain health freedom. Another Codex submission must Kl> be sent to the FDA at the end of January, and without the assistance Kl> of the Law Loft, we won't be able to keep fighting back. Kl> Harris conducted research at the World Health Organization libraries Kl> in Rome and in Geneva, and also had extensive records from attending Kl> Codex meetings in Geneva, and Washington and through their efforts to Kl> submit Codex comments to the FDA on behalf of the Life Extension Kl> Foundation, and the National Health Federation. Crates of invaluable Kl> documents were destroyed in the blaze. Kl> Without the research of Suzanne Harris and Peter Ludwell we never Kl> would have gotten the German Codex proposal knocked back from step 5 Kl> to step 3 at the meeting in Geneva in June. Kl> We wouldn't have been able to kill the Special Panel the Codex Kl> Commission wanted to create in order to establish a negative or "no Kl> trade" list for herbs (which would have banned the sale of many herbs Kl> from international commerce.) Kl> We wouldn't have been able to get dietary supplements exempted from Kl> the harmonization language in the FDA Reform Bill (which threatened to Kl> make our food and drug law the same as the European Union's where Kl> dietary supplements are regulated as drugs) because it was their Kl> research that enabled us to pressure Congress to make the change. Kl> Radio Station KHNC- The American Freedom Network- is a Patriot radio Kl> station which, until the fire, had been conducting 24 hour a day Kl> programming which included the Law Loft's 5 day a week program, The Kl> Law Loft report, through which they had been sounding the alarm Kl> regarding the Codex International Threat to Health Freedom, as well as Kl> such related matters as the threat posed by the harmonization language Kl> in the FDA Reform Bill as well as a host of other civil liberties Kl> issues involving NAFTA, GATT, the threat posed by "Fast Track", Kl> MAI,and other issues. Kl> Hope this helps. Kl> Kerry Kl> For more info. see full text at: Kl> http://www.intrepid.net/~klynch/lawloft.html Kl> You may want to pass this on to your networks End of mesage ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300005Date: 12/02/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 11:35pm \/To: SHARON MCCORMICK (Read 1 times) Subj: It is happening again Sharon Mccormick wrote in a message to Mark Probert: SM> on alternative medicine.....I've been taking Goldenseal for a really SM> nasty cough and congestion, been going on for weeks now it SM> seems...not too bad during the day, but at night I don't get much SM> sleep for long coughing fits that have my chest and throat really SM> sore. (...) SM> Kaiser (my health plan) puts out a home help type book, and SM> recommend taking Robotussin (sp). My husband is out buying me some SM> now. If you have been having this bad of a cough and congestion for more than 10 days to 2 weeks, it could be a bacterial infection (possibly bronchitis...yech). If your health care plan will cover it, it may be worthwhile to stop and see a doctor for antibiotics to assist in getting it out of your system. I would suggest that you argue with them if they try to give you any of the "latest and greatest" antibiotics however... usually penicillin varieties and sulfa varieties work just as well for those who are not allergic to them and I know (at least with sulfa) they are quite inexpensive. It's not alternative medicine, but there are times that western doctors might actually be useful... Sue --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300006Date: 12/01/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:02am \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy VERN FAULKNER was thinking about Maggot Therapy and keyed into cyberspace: VF> JK> People who are under the influence of mind altering substances VF> JK> are sick, allright, but not necessairly "mentally ill". Any VF> JK> substance which is a VF>And this has to relate to suicidal people in what way? VF>Are you now saying that all suicidal people have to be under the VF>influence of mind-altering substances? Most of the suicidal people VF>I've seen/heard/known have been either unable to cope with stress, or VF>unable to cope with depression, rather than being unable to cope with VF>mind-altering substances. VF> JK> It is necessary to figure out why they are suicidal and that VF> JK> doesn't mean going back and finding out how they were potty VF> JK> trained. It means knowing if they are under the influence of VF> JK> any mind altering substances VF>And if they aren't? VF> JK> And if you knew one whit about what I am saying, you would not VF> JK> have written what you did. VF>Uhhuh. Do you use ad-homimem attacks to try and buttress your weak VF>arguments, or is this just an exception? Hi Vern. Do not feel singled out. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300007Date: 12/02/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:22am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: She's Back JANE KELLEY was thinking about She's Back and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MP>JK>And if you knew one whit about what I am saying, you would not JK>MP>JK>have written what you did. JK>MP>Jane's back. JK>You noticed. Where have you been? The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300008Date: 12/02/97 From: KEVIN TWYMAN Time: 07:33pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: So long... I am detaching from this area, if there are any important messages, please contact me via netmail at the address below... Bye... _ __ _ (_/{evin --- Spot 1.3a #1352 * Origin: Area-Fix-Man (2:440/106.3) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300009Date: 11/28/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 06:26pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy VF> JK> People who are under the influence of mind altering substances are sick VF> JK> allright, but not necessairly "mentally ill". Any substance which is a VF>And this has to relate to suicidal people in what way? Some, not all, of those who are under the influence of mind altering substances are what you term "suicidal". They are not mentally ill, they are physically sick which has in turn affected their minds. VF>Are you now saying that all suicidal people have to be under the influence o VF>mind-altering substances? Most of the suicidal people I've een/heard/known VF>been either unable to cope with stress, or unable to cope with depression, VF>rather than being unable to cope with mind-altering substances. Which is why some of them use mind-altering substances, and "why" doctors prescribe them. Just what do you classify Prozac or Valium as, incidently, if they are not mind-altering substances? VF> JK> It is necessary to figure out why they are suicidal and that doesn't VF> JK> mean going back and finding out how they were potty trained. It means VF> JK> knowing if they are under the influence of any mind altering substances VF>And if they aren't? Then figure out what else is wrong with their body chemistry and attempt to intervene in the process going on inside the brain that leads them to depression. Today the sun is shinning for the first time in days. I am sick and tired of the dreary, gray days I have been waking up to and the sunshine is very welcome. That is a mild case of S.A.D. which can be allieviated by more light, not by drugs, and I am not considered to be mentally ill for feeling this way. VF> JK> And if you knew one whit about what I am saying, you would not have VF> JK> written what you did. VF>Uhhuh. Do you use ad-homimem attacks to try and buttress your weak arguments VF>is this just an exception? This is simply a statement of fact. Go sit on some hard chairs and learn what you think you already know. * SLMR 2.1a * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300010Date: 11/28/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 06:41pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws VF> JK> The problem with the alcohol begins with the faulty brain chemistry tha VF> JK> the alcoholic is born with. The alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme is much VF>Not all alcoholics have been linked to similar genetics, or brain chemistry. There is one class which Jellinek and others have left out of those who do. The rest, which make up most of those identified as "alcoholics" are the result of genetics. If we used the brain scans to make definitive diagnosis of the mentally ill, we would learn a lot more about where all of this comes from. I have been doing histories on chemically dependent people since I was a student nurse. Since 1979 that has included family history as well. And, it is mandated in our laws for drug and alcohol counselors that this be done. The way to properly do this is taught in every college in this state which has courses in chemical dependency counseling. MOST OF WHAT YOU CALL MENTAL HEALTH HAS ALSO BEEN LINKED TO GENETICS! VF>And even so, this has nothing to do with whether alcohol is not dangerous VF>because it is legal: your perspective, it would seem. I disagree. It is not the legality of any drug which makes it dangerous. Illegal drugs do not have the same high standards in manufacture that legal drugs have in this nation. I've been called down to the booking area of a large jail too many times to identify some pill or another that some youngster brought in with him not to realize that drugs are also counterfeited. What is claimed to be in a capsule sold on the streets as an ampetamine may be many other things including poison. Anyone who takes illegal drugs has only themselves to blame when something goes very wrong. Such as the coma that Karen Ann Quinlan was in for years after a teenage party. One dose of an illegal drug can cause permanent paralysis or worse. Legal drugs are considered safe for humans under the conditions they have been prescribed by competent medical personnel. VF> JK> can be calculated in various ways including blood and other body fluid VF> JK> samples. The effects of illegal drugs vary widely as they are not VF> JK> produced under any kind of federal or state monitoring systems. VF>This still doesn't support your stated belief that things that are legal mus VF>therefore be safe. Look Junior, I am getting a bit weary of your same old, same old theme. Nothing is safe in the wrong hands, including water. And that means if you persist in thinking that you can outguess someone who has had years of education and experience before being allowed to prescribe for someone else, then so be it. You will one day find out just how smart you aren't. * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline is umop apisdn - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EG300011Date: 12/03/97 From: TED BARNES Time: 11:22am \/To: SUE ALEXANDER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy -=> Quoting Sue Alexander to Jane Kelley <=- Hi Sue, I'm a drunk and an addict, so I like to use one word Addict. You have some very good points and stick with your guns. I am coming up on 7 years now of sobriety. I enjoy these conversations but there a few things I as a recovering addict would like to add. An addict needs an addict for recovery, professional help usually doesn't work. Oh it can work, once the addict has had time away from substances and time to heal. Basicaly the professional may be used to pick up the pcs. Most professional agencies involved with addicts are in it for the cash, sad but true. I have had the professionals as my sponsees when all of their own peers couldn't help. I believe this speaks big words :) Now on with your post :) SA> I am not an addiction counselor. From what I understand, people SA> who are addicted often need a defining incident in their life to even SA> recognize the need for help. I was suggesting that using maggots may SA> be such an incident...perhaps you disagree. (in fact you probably do SA> ;( ) JK> You cannot scare an addict into stopping. SA> However, an addict may find that something is scary enough to go SA> seek help. yes an addict can be scared into sobriety JK> You cannot threaten an addict into stopping. SA> Did I ever say you can? No you never did, but yes it can be done. I am a living an example, If I drank during my parole years back I lost my parole. Hence the threat alone kept me going to meetings which stopped me from starting again. My first year of sobriety I never accepted that I stopped. i was only on hold until my parole ended. the fear of loss of freedom, kept me sober and was the backbone of my program. You see there is no right or wrong answer, programs are an individual thing for the individual SA> Jane, this is getting just plain annoying. You are seeing one or SA> two things that I say that you don't agree with, then you go into a SA> complete tirade as to addiction and help (not unlike other messages SA> here). Not every problem in life is due to actual or genetic SA> addiction, and not every addict will fit into your glorified nitch. I SA> will be dropping this thread as of this message. SA> Get a life Jane. Well I enjoy what you have to say Sue Later Ted ... 10th Rule of Creationism -- Ignored evidence will go away... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- Renegade v5-11 Exp * Origin: Electric Prayers - Guelph ON - 519-823-8392 (1:221/802)