--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFT00007Date: 11/21/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:43am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Add And Adhd JANE KELLEY was thinking about Add And Adhd and keyed into cyberspace: JK>Ever encounter the gummy bears made from vegetables? All banter aside, these "Phyto-bears" are loaded with something called phyto-estrogen. I suggest you check into this. I have heard some nasty things about this. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFU00000Date: 11/24/97 From: BRUCE KELLY Time: 11:38pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: grapeseed oil Hello to all! I was wondering if anyone has heard of using grapeseed oil daily to reduce ldl and raise hdl. It is taken orally, 2 tablespoons and is suppose to lower cholesterol. It is also suppose to be much better than olive oil. Comments Please.. - Bruce --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! [TESTDRIVE] v2.0TD * Origin: * Local 369 BBS * Weymouth, MA 781-340-5466 * (1:101/369) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFW00000Date: 11/25/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 01:06am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy Jane Kelley wrote in a message to Sue Alexander: SA> The hospital I work at sees much more than its share of alcoholics nd SA>drug addicts, Jane. Maggots may do short term help for these people and may SA>very well help some of them who are scared enough by the incident to do SA>something to help themselves, but for many their own suicidal tendencies wil SA>get them (somehow) in the end. JK> "some of them who are scared enough be the incident to do something JK> to help themselves" indicates a complete lack of information JK> concerning addiction. And I will bet that there is no one on staff JK> at your hosptial who is a specialist in dealing with addicts. The JK> closest will be some A.A. or N.A. group that come in. I think this is rather short-sighted on your part, Jane, to presume that because I used that quote the hospital I work with does not have adequate addiction counseling. I am not an addiction counselor. From what I understand, people who are addicted often need a defining incident in their life to even recognize the need for help. I was suggesting that using maggots may be such an incident...perhaps you disagree. (in fact you probably do ;( ) JK> You cannot scare an addict into stopping. However, an addict may find that something is scary enough to go seek help. JK> You cannot threaten an addict into stopping. Did I ever say you can? JK> One can, however, MOTIVATE an addict when properly taught how to do JK> so. "their own suicidal tendencies" is a blanket statement that just JK> is hogwash. It connotates a mental health stigma on your part that JK> these people simply do not deserve. They deserve the baggage you place on them in every post you make here that refers to addicts? Get real, Jane. These people are often looking for a way out...sometimes the effect is long-term suicide. What do you call an addict that refuses assistance to control severe diabetes while he goes out and drinks and uses drugs? What do you call an alcoholic with essentially no liver function who continues to get drunk every available chance? JK> That is what they need long before the maggot stage of physical JK> treatment. Jane, this is getting just plain annoying. You are seeing one or two things that I say that you don't agree with, then you go into a complete tirade as to addiction and help (not unlike other messages here). Not every problem in life is due to actual or genetic addiction, and not every addict will fit into your glorified nitch. I will be dropping this thread as of this message. Get a life Jane. Sue ... Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFW00001Date: 11/25/97 From: DAVID WILSON Time: 10:08am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Thrush GL> Question: What is trush? DA> A Candida (yeast) infection of the mouth. .... or of any of the mucous membranes of the human body. Very commonly experienced in the vagina. --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: IC_STARS BBS * Madawaska,ME USA* 207-728-6427 (1:326/438) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFW00002Date: 11/26/97 From: DAVID LOUDENBACK Time: 09:20pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy .-= The other day, Vern Faulkner said this to Jane Kelley: =-. Nice message subject! :) VF> People who are suicidal have _problems_. Period. Trying to avoid their VF> problems with cutesy politically-correct and mind-numbing adjectives VF> doesn't help them - or their problems. They're not functioning properly VF> in society. THey do not perform to the social norm. They are, in short, VF> mentally ill. Sick. In need of help. I don't see why everyone MUST conform to the social "norm". Why not let people be who they are, if they're "normal" in societies view or not. I personally think that society is sick; with the emphasis being on looking good, getting as much money as you can, and stock pilling material things. We don't need all that society tries to push upon us. It is this normalness that is killing us all slowly. Now, am I mentally ill for thinking this way? I think not. I know that you were talking about suicidal people, which I am not, but I thought I'd put in my two cents. ... A dry sense of humor is better than slobbering everywhere ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: The NeverEnding BBS/Deltona,FL/407-860-7720/neverendi (1:3618/555) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFW00003Date: 11/26/97 From: DAVID LOUDENBACK Time: 09:30pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws .-= The other day, Vern Faulkner said this to Jane Kelley: =-. VF> Ah, so the most potent and damaging drug in society today - alcohol - VF> would gain your acceptance then? It baffles me that alcohol is legal and kills thousands every year, and the "ellicit drug" marijuana is outlawed and there has never been a documented case of death by it. If anything, alcohol should be illegal. ... RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure! ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: The NeverEnding BBS/Deltona,FL/407-860-7720/neverendi (1:3618/555) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFX00000Date: 11/24/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:03pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy VF> JK> "their own suicidal tendencies" is a blanket statement that just is VF> JK> hogwash. It connotates a mental health stigma on your part that hese VF> JK> people simply do not deserve. VF>Let me see - we're engineered to survive. You're telling me people who are a VF>to over-ride this natural instinct aren't sick? Don't have baggage? Their co VF>mechanisms are just fine, thank you? Uh-huh. People who are under the influence of mind altering substances are sick, allright, but not necessairly "mentally ill". Any substance which is a depressive, taken for a long enough period of time in one without the brain and body chemistry to resist it will cause depression. These are called "sedative/hypnotic" and include both alcohol and tranquilizers. These folks are not mentally ill. They are physically sick and can be healed by detoxification and treatment of their addiction. The "mentally ill" cannot be treated the same way which is withdrawal from drugs. They will get sicker. In fact, this is exactly the way definitive diagnosis is all too often made. Withdraw all drugs and put the person in a safe and protected enviornment such as a small jail holding cell and monitor closely for a few days. Those with an addiction to chemicals will improve and become sane, those who are mentally ill will get worse without the drugs they require to stabilize their brain chemistry. VF>People who are suicidal have _problems_. Period. Trying to avoid their probl VF>with cutesy politically-correct and mind-numbing adjectives doesn't help the VF>or their problems. They're not functioning properly in society. It is necessary to figure out why they are suicidal and that doesn't mean going back and finding out how they were potty trained. It means knowing if they are under the influence of any mind altering substances and if so, for how long and in what amounts. That is exactly why tox screens are done in hospital emergency rooms and in jails when someone presents with certain symptoms. To rule in or rule out the possibility of drugs affecting the actions of the person in question. And if you knew one whit about what I am saying, you would not have written what you did. * SLMR 2.1a * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E-- - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFX00001Date: 11/24/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:09pm \/To: SUE ALEXANDER (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy SA>JK> "some of them who are scared enough be the incident to do something SA>JK> to help themselves" indicates a complete lack of information SA>JK> concerning addiction. And I will bet that there is no one on staff SA>JK> at your hosptial who is a specialist in dealing with addicts. The SA>JK> closest will be some A.A. or N.A. group that come in. SA> I think this is rather short-sighted on your part, Jane, to presume tha SA>because I used that quote the hospital I work with does not have adequate SA>addiction counseling. Adequate addiction counseling also includes staff training and inservice education, not just contact with chemically addicted patients. There is no use in having someone around with the knowledge if most folks on staff do not know how to recognize what is wrong with a patient and who to call in. I once watched an officious doctor take control of the case where a man was admitted after a car accident with a blood alcohol level of .450. The doctor ordered him to stop drinking and expected him to comply. It took another auto accident for the man to get into an inpatient treatment agency. And yes, alcoholics can walk around, drive cars, and function just fine with a much higher blood alcohol level than so called normal folks have ever experienced. SA> I am not an addiction counselor. From what I understand, people who ar SA>addicted often need a defining incident in their life to even recognize the SA>for help. I was suggesting that using maggots may be such an incident...per SA>you disagree. (in fact you probably do ;( ) I believe I said that I would not be able to stand it as a flea on me drives me nuts until I find and kill it. Also, if some poor patient has ever been close to DT's and maggots are proposed, I would expect a lot of restraint be used to prevent him or her from some physically aggressive act towards whoever proposed it. One of the hallmarks of Delirium Tremens is the delusion that things could be crawling around or be seen. It is called "going snaky" in Alaska and in other places by chronic alcoholics who have been there and back again. Good luck in proposing the use of maggots to them. * SLMR 2.1a * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFX00002Date: 11/24/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:19pm \/To: VERN FAULKNER (Read 1 times) Subj: On Drug Laws VF> JK> There is a difference between taking legal drugs which have been VF> JK> produced under stringent controls and taking substances which are VF>Ah, so the most potent and damaging drug in society today - alcohol - ould VF>your acceptance then? There is nothing wrong with the product. Every bottle of Jack Daniels is made to exacting government standards and is fit for human consumption. The problem with the alcohol begins with the faulty brain chemistry that the alcoholic is born with. The alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme is much less than in so called "normal" people and gets used up rather fast by them. When the supply gets depleted, the brain and body start making other chemicals that then get stored in body fat. This is the start of chronic addiction. 80% of the beverage alcohol is consumed by 20% of those who drink it. That portion is the alcoholics who drink more with a very high tolerance in the early stages of the disease, then develop intolerance later on with problems coming from the ingestion of one bottle of beer, for instance, on a weekend. That is when those who are smart enough quit drinking. And yes, an alcoholic can learn enough to quit at that point in the drinking career. I know that because that is exactly what I did. Then I went to Seattle University to find out what was going on inside me. VF>Legality has no bearing on the effect of a chemical on a person. Ask a buddy VF>mine, who has an addiction to codiene, gained through legal medical prescrip VF>many years ago. The effects of the codiene are known. The dose of the drug is known and can be calculated in various ways including blood and other body fluid samples. The effects of illegal drugs vary widely as they are not produced under any kind of federal or state monitoring systems. Sort of like the hooch during prohibition that was made in old radiators that put a lot of dangerous lead into the system. And like some of the crap that gets smoked along with other things these days. VF>Ask me. I was addicted to a drug. A nice, legally availble material not even VF>listed as a "drug" in today's society. Caffiene. Which is one of the hardest to break because it is legal and so approved of. My state mandates that every treatment agency educate its clients about it as well as nicotene. VF>It goes to show that the people who make the laws should be medical professi VF>s, VF>not lawyers. How you can come in and proscribe one thing as fine because its VF>legal and another bad because it isn't is mind-numbingly baffling. And illog VF>. There is nothing wrong with the codiene, either. It is a drug that is widely used and quite safe when used properly. However, my belief is that it and beverage alcohol should both be used only when prescribed by a medical doctor who understands addiction. * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFZ00000Date: 11/26/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 06:50am \/To: DAVID LOUDENBACK (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy DL> VF> People who are suicidal have _problems_. Period. Trying to avoid heir DL> VF> problems with cutesy politically-correct and mind-numbing adjectives DL> VF> doesn't help them - or their problems. They're not functioning properly DL> VF> in society. THey do not perform to the social norm. They are, in short, DL> VF> mentally ill. Sick. In need of help. DL>I don't see why everyone MUST conform to the social "norm". Why not let DL>people be who they are, if they're "normal" in societies view or not. I DL>personally think that society is sick; with the emphasis being on looking DL>good, getting as much money as you can, and stock pilling material things. There is no mental "norm" and never has been. What there has been until the fundamentalists of all kinds decided to assume control of politics, was some boundaries over which humans did not cross without retribution. There was a ban on child molestation and rape. We are the only species which destroys large amounts of ourselves. Other mamals, birds, and insects do not make war on their own kind. I frankly do not trust and refuse to accept the labels that any fundamentalist puts on other humans. And that can be stretched to apply to those who use the fundamentals of what is laughingly called mental health also. DL>We don't need all that society tries to push upon us. It is this DL>normalness that is killing us all slowly. Now, am I mentally ill for DL>thinking this way? I think not. I know that you were talking about DL>suicidal people, which I am not, but I thought I'd put in my two cents. DL>... A dry sense of humor is better than slobbering everywhere DL>___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] DL>--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 DL> * Origin: The NeverEnding BBS/Deltona,FL/407-860-7720/neverendi (1:3618/555 * SLMR 2.1a * We all live in a yellow subroutine. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1)