--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400014Date: 11/03/97 From: SHARON MCCORMICK Time: 10:47am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Posts DS> Apology accepted but let's not start another round of uncomfortable iscou DS> Most software has a great feature...it allows you to see the header and h DS> post is from..if it's from a person you know will probably annoy ou...DO DS> READ IT..... For most folks, Dia, I would agree...but I operate my BBS with rules of conduct here, and according to Policy4, and Fidonet protocol, I am responsible for any infraction of the Fidonet "annoying behavior" rule that might originate from my BBS. Therefore I read everything that is posted on QUACKERS, whether it be a message typed directly, one posted via an offline reader, or one entering the BBS via my front end mailer. For myself I see my choices as only two. Carry the echo, or don't carry the echo. I know of other sysops besides myself who have stopped carrying certain echoes because of out of hand bickering in them. IMHO this is most unfortunate, and if it continues, the doomsayers will be correct, and we will all be swallowed by the internet. --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400015Date: 11/03/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 11:02am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: CODEX ban on herbs More material about the CODEX treaty on dietary supplements -=> Quoting Wd to <=- Wd> Subject: Sorry, no more vitamins and herbs for you! Wd> Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative Wd> THE GOVERNMENT AND THE DRUG COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO STEAL YOUR RIGHT Wd> TO VITAMINS, HERBS AND OTHER SUPPLEMENTS!!!!!!!!!! Wd> Immediate action by *YOU* is required *NOW*!!!!!!!!! Wd> SUGGESTED LETTER -- Fill in the blanks! Wd> ================================================================ Wd> Date:____________________ Wd> The Honorable: ____________________________________ Wd> Dear Member of Congress: Wd> I am firmly *AGAINST* any and all bills that implement 'CODEX LAW' or Wd> the 'CODEX ALIMENTARIUS' or restrict my right to information about, Wd> and access to, vitamins, minerals, herbs, food supplements, that can be Wd> sold for preventative health maintenance, or therapeutic use. Wd> I am firmly *FOR* any and all bills that retain my right of access to Wd> vitamins, minerals, herbs, food supplements, that can be sold for Wd> preventative health maintenance, or therapeutic use. Wd> I request that you SPONSOR AND SUPPORT an amendment to the House Wd> companion bill to S.830, the FDA Reform Bill, which was recently Wd> passed in the Senate. This amendment is needed to address a clause in Wd> the bill that calls for the 'HARMONIZATION' of U.S. Food and Drug law Wd> with the European Union (EU). Wd> If the FDA reform bill is not changed to: ELIMINATE THE CALL FOR Wd> HARMONIZATION with food and drug laws in Europe, it will give the FDA Wd> a legal mandate to regulate dietary supplements as "drugs", which will Wd> rob Americans of free access to vitamins, minerals, amino acids, herbs Wd> and other nutrients, and will lead to much higher prices for these Wd> supplements. Wd> The reason for this is that access to dietary supplements is highly Wd> restricted in Europe. In Norway, for example, it is illegal to buy Wd> vitamin C in doses higher than 200 mg. without a doctor's Wd> prescription. In the United Kingdom (UK), there is a move to make it Wd> illegal to purchase doses of vitamin B-6 higher than 10 mg. without a Wd> doctor's prescription. Thus, it is clearly not in the best interests Wd> of Americans for our food and drug laws to be "harmonized" with the Wd> laws in Europe. Wd> You may have heard that the harmonization language in S.830 just Wd> pertains to medical devices, but that is not the case. It applies to Wd> the entire food, drug, and cosmetic act, which includes dietary Wd> supplements. If you have any doubts about this, please read section Wd> 202 of the bill, which I have reproduced below: Wd> "Sense of the Committee Regarding Mutual Recognition Agreements Wd> and Global Harmonization Efforts: (1) the Secretary of Health and Wd> Human Services should support the Office of the United States Trade Wd> Representative, in consultation with the Secretary of Commerce, in Wd> efforts to move towards the regulation of drugs, biological Wd> products, devices, foods, [which includes dietary supplements] Wd> food additives, and color additives, and the regulation of good Wd> manufacturing practices between the European Union and the United Wd> States. Wd> "(2) the Secretary of Health and Human Services should regularly Wd> participate in meetings with representatives of other foreign Wd> governments to discuss and reach agreement on methods and Wd> approaches to harmonize regulatory requirements, and; Wd> (3) the Office of International Relations of the Department of Wd> health and Human Services (as established under section 803 of the Wd> Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 USC 383)) should have the Wd> responsibility of ensuring that the process of harmonizing Wd> international regulatory requirements is continuous." Wd> The FDA reform bill is on a very fast track through Congress. The Wd> Senate ignored citizens' efforts to remove the harmonization clause, so Wd> we are now appealing to members of the house, to keep Americans from Wd> losing their right to free access to dietary supplements. (As of Oct. Wd> 1, 1997, the House companion bill to S.830 did not yet have a number.) Wd> If you are a member of the Senate, please support your colleagues in Wd> the House in their efforts to amend the bill. Wd> HR 1411 is one of three bills currently being combined to form the Wd> House companion bill to S.830. What follows is the language I would Wd> like you to sponsor, as an amendment to the bill. Wd> "(C) The secretary shall participate in meetings with Wd> representatives of other countries to discuss methods and Wd> approaches to reduce the burden of regulation and harmonize Wd> regulatory requirements if the secretary determines that such Wd> harmonization will continue consumer protections consistent with Wd> the purposes of this Act. The Secretary shall report to the Wd> Committee on Commerce of the House of Representatives of the Senate Wd> at least 120 (instead of 60) days before executing any bilateral or Wd> multilateral agreements, and all harmonization agreements entered Wd> into must be approved by Congress following an open public hearing, Wd> in which citizens are given adequate notice and time to comment on Wd> all aspects of the bill." Wd> This amendment would provide Americans with badly needed oversight Wd> that doesn't exist in the bill at present. If this change is not made, Wd> I will lobby to veto the bill and will encourage others to do so as Wd> well. Wd> Your Constituent, Wd> Constituent ____________________________________________________ Wd> Address:_______________________________________________________ Wd> City_________________________________ST________ZIP____________ Wd> Date:_____________________ End of message ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400016Date: 11/03/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 07:27pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Melatonin & Valerian Your point about melatonin affecting the aging process is well taken....it is touted as an ANTI aging substance tho. I always wonder about herbs, drugs etc that do anything with the hormones and the brain chemistry directly..sorta wonder what the trade off will be. Am printing out your message..I think it has some very valid points.... --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400017Date: 11/01/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:16pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ADD and ADHD DIA SPRIGGS was thinking about Re: ADD and ADHD and keyed into cyberspace: DS>> 500,000 baud, I read them all. Every single one. 473K worth DS> DS>Maybe now you need something for your eyesight... DS> DS>> 2. I know of this kid who was on Ritalin and his mother put DS>> him DS> DS> DS>There were NO...I know of this kid that took pyc and really did well? DS>that's hard to believe. Cause I did know of at least one where that DS>was the case. There were many of those. They were found on the sites selling it. On the research sites, not a word about ADHD and Pygnogenol. DS>> It is only an anti-oxidant. So is Vitamin C. Same chemical DS>> action. DS> DS>cept it's supposed to be a lot stronger than C. Free radicals have DS>been linked to many diseases and anti oxidants seem to be what gets DS>rid of them before they can do some real damage. I used to lockup free radicals.But,that was the sixties and they were trying to kill me...they did kill a friend of mine in Seattle. However, the elimination of free radicals is done by a chemical process. Just up the VitC and it is taken care of. DS>What I like pyc for is my knee. A few years ago I had an auto DS>accident where my left leg was jammed and if affected the DS>knee..sometimes I have a hard time walkig and other times it just DS>aches like crazy. If it gets too bad, I take two pcy and within DS>about 20 min the pain stops. This isn't just soemthing that happens DS>now and again but consistantly. How does it work..have no DS>idea...don't care...just know that it does. It is supposed to be especially effective in repairing and restoring peripheral circulation. I tried it for two years. My dopplers are the same. I usually were wool socks in the winter, and often the electric socks. It did not make one bit of difference. Now, for the good news. Anti-oxidants have been shown to enhance the effectiveness of one chemotherapuetic agent, commonly referred to as 5FU. Seems to soup it up. My son;s psychologist took large doses of VitC during his Chemo, and he is free of disease (no thanks to managed care.) The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400018Date: 11/02/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 05:59pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Melatonin GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: Melatonin and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Sharon Mccormick to George Lagergren <=- GL> GL> Sharon, what dosage level of melatonin do you use? GL> SM> I take one tablet at bedtime. 200mcg. GL> Sharon , there are generally three dosage levels of GL> melatonin: 300 mcg; one mg; and three mg. 3 mg. is one heck of a higher dose than 3 mcg. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF400019Date: 11/01/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:21pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: On drug laws ALEX VASAUSKAS was thinking about On drug laws and keyed into cyberspace: Bunch of Janism snipped to prevent Cyber-polution. AV>I am trying to abide by your rules. But, it is very difficult not AV>to respond to Jane's political and prohibition oriented posts as they AV>are based upon a distorted view relying upon falsehoods and AV>half-truths. Such posts demand opposition just to clear the air AV>and to let anyone who might be influenced by her know that her AV>political agenda is pernicious to personal freedom and AV>responsibility, and to provide an evaluation of the issues she raises AV>based upon credible facts and critical reason. I have to agree with you Alex. Jane's very provocative in the way she writes. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF500000Date: 11/03/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 01:39am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Maggot Therapy Jane Kelley wrote in a message to Sue Alexander: SA> Taking care of your immune system is great if you can. Sometimes SA> however, due to circumstances where this is not possible or simply SA> not done, treatment options are needed for problems that arise. SA> Maggots are a potentially effective way to limit necrotic tissue (if SA> the patient can stand the idea ) JK> Ever see someone who has had their legs amputated a little bit at a JK> time? Someone with a lousy immune system from drinking and drugging JK> too long? Believe me, the maggots aren't going to do a damn bit of JK> good. Neither will the surgery, for that matter. JK> We need to get out information on the immune system itself to kids JK> and to anyone else who will listen. The hospital I work at sees much more than its share of alcoholics and drug addicts, Jane. Maggots may do short term help for these people and may very well help some of them who are scared enough by the incident to do something to help themselves, but for many their own suicidal tendencies will get them (somehow) in the end. However, you are looking at things much too black and white. I was thinking of circumstances such as accident victims where blood circulation is affected by external causes. In these cases, gangrene (which is an anaerobic infection) can start up in the damaged part of the body due to lack of suffiecient oxygenation and contamination of a wound site. If blood cannot adequately get to an infection site, the immune system cannot work properly and therefore it does not matter how healthy the person was to begin with. Also, there are a great number of people for which adequate nutrition, rest, and hygiene are simply not available. Do you want to tell them "sorry, I can't help you. You did not take care of your immune system (though I don't know how you could have), so you have to live with the consequences"? Personally, I do not feel that I can afford to be that heartless in the medical profession. Getting the word out about taking care of yourself is great Jane, and I strongly agree that measures should be taken along these lines. However, it just cannot be the complete panacea that your message implies it to be. Sue ... Support bacteria--it's the only culture some people have! --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EF500001Date: 11/04/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 08:49am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ADD and ADHD > Since itis only an anti-oxidant, it certainly cannot hurt. > Tell them to > try Vitamin C. Does the same thing. > Well..Vit C, A, E, selenium and some herbs are also ONLY antioxidants too but they also do different things in the body than the other things...perhaps PYC does things inside the body other thanbeing ONLY an antioxidant. Think about it..you wouldn't tell anyone, Hey don't take anything but C because the rest are only antioxidants...each has their own functions..so does pcy. --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFA00000Date: 11/05/97 From: DAVID WILSON Time: 9:58am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: More on SP >> Have you noticed whether SP helped you with any head/nose mucus? That's a tough one to answer, since I'm not one to be bothered by nasal congestion, head colds, post-nasal drip, etc. Neither have I read the claim. --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: IC_STARS BBS * Madawaska,ME USA* 207-728-6427 (1:326/438) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EFA00001Date: 11/04/97 From: OLIVIA STANFORD Time: 09:48pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ADD and ADHD Re: Re: ADD and ADHD > Also pycnogenol has proven extemely effective in treating this; some Calif. > drs. have taken children off ritalin totally with the use of it. > --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 Have there been any side effects reported ? and also,I noticed your running DBRIDGE ? Would you mind telling me what type modem your running it on ? ĿHorse of a (904) ĴDifferent Color BBS 786-9961*693-3681*693-1701 Jacksonville,Florida --- VFIDO 7.00.00 * Origin: A Horse of a Different Color (1:112/64)