--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00001Date: 10/19/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 10:19pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: St. John's Wort MARK PROBERT wrote in a message to SUE ALEXANDER: MP>>> The three-year study will involve 336 patients with major MP>>> depression, of whom one-third will receive a 900 milligram (mg) MP>>> daily dose of St. John's wort, one-third will receive a placebo, MP>>> and one-third will receive a selective serotonin reuptake MP>>> inhibitor. SA>> Are you familiar with the use of St John's wort? I was wondering if SA>> this is an appropriate dose for treatment purposes and if there are SA>> any interactions with drugs or food. MP>> The purpose of the study is to determine safety, efficacy, dosage MP>> and interactions. MP>> I would never presume to know such things before they are MP>> empirically tested. SA> I was actually trying to figure out if they were really trying to SA> test it or setting it up for failure. From your answer, I presume SA> you can't help me...oh, well. MP> Why didn't you ask the question outright? I asked questions pertaining to some aspects of the study that I thought would help me in determining what I wanted to know about the validity. Why did you not answer my question (re whether you were familiar with St John's wort) outright? MP> Actually, you are partially right, I cannot help you. You have more than adequately shown that to me and the other posters. Thank you for your time, that is what I wanted to know. Sue ... "Certainly the game is rigged." -- Heinlein --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00002Date: 10/19/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 10:27pm \/To: MEG UMANS (Read 1 times) Subj: St. John's Wort Meg Umans wrote in a message to Sue Alexander: MP> The three-year study will involve 336 patients with major MP> depression, of whom one-third will receive a 900 milligram MP> (mg) daily dose of St. John's wort, one-third will receive a MP> placebo, and one-third will receive a selective serotonin reuptake MP> inhibitor. -> I was actually trying to figure out if they were really trying to -> test it or setting it up for failure. From your answer, I presume -> you can't help me...oh, well. MU> Sounds like a setup to me, Sue. Note that the people in the trial MU> are people with major depression. St. John's Wort has been MU> demonstrated elsewhere to work for people with minor depression. Unfortunately any "setup" may not be intentional. The rules by which studies are conducted are fairly strict and studying major depression may be the only way to study this at all in a clinical setting. However, considering how hesitant the AMA seems to be about saying that anything other than purified chemicals may have their benefits, I will have a "wait and see" attitude towards this study. Sue ... Find your truth where you will. -- Richard Bach --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00003Date: 10/19/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 10:40pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: St. John's Wort Dia Spriggs wrote in a message to Sue Alexander: DS> The lastest I heard was that they now think it's NOT an MAO DS> inhibitor even tho some of the chemical constituents have MAO DS> activities. I was always concerned if it was MAO you'd have to DS> watch what you ate very closely. Sometimes you wonder if anyone DS> knows anything. Thanks for that tidbit...I thought I had remembered it being considered a MAO inhibitor and thus needing dietary restrictions. Unfortunately, I agree with you in wondering if anyone really knows anything in medicine. The subject is far too complicated, and there certainly are plenty of doctors out there who cannot combine common sense and practical knowledge into a whole that works. Sue ... EVERYONE is weird. Some of us are proud of it. --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00004Date: 10/20/97 From: SHARON MCCORMICK Time: 10:27am \/To: MEG UMANS (Read 1 times) Subj: Juiceman Juicer MU> When I see ads for juicers, I wonder why people would rather drink food MU> than eat it. Finally a friend of mine bought one and I got to ask him: MU> he said he'd rather gulp something or pop a couple of pills and be done MU> with it, not bother sitting down to eat. Overall, his impression is MU> that it saves him time. That's not a draw for me - I LIKE eating . MU> I'm still not aware of any health benefits you get from juicing that you MU> don't get from eating the food in its original form. You mentioned that MU> it's easier to assimilate once it's been juiced. Because it's diluted? I like eating too!! My mom-in-law has reached a point in her illness that we have to give her cans of liquid calories, vitamins etc, because she just either cannot or will not eat much solid food. I also love juices, and when I am thirsty, I'll go for some juice or water...I don't like soda pop. --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00005Date: 10/20/97 From: SHARON MCCORMICK Time: 03:42pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Garlic Thanks for the informative post! I love garlic myself, and don't have to be encouraged to eat it. I have a garlic soup recipe that is simple and delicious, also one for a garlic sauce for pasta...around here whenever we feel the need for "comfort food" I cook one or the other! --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00006Date: 10/19/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 08:55am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: RULE OF ALTMED Dia Spriggs wrote in a message to All: DS> RULES OF ALTMED: DS> DS> This echo is primarily for the sharing of information on DS> alternative medicine. Of course breakthrough or good information DS> about standard medical procedures will be welcomed. This echo is DS> designed to bring information that is useful for the management of DS> one's own health to the public. Many ideas, concepts, etc. will DS> not agree with everyone's lifestyle, beliefs or opinions. If this DS> is the case, let it go, it might be helpful to others. [...] DS> No flaming, long rambling arguements, name calling, debating will DS> be permitted Does this mean what it literally says: among other things, that debating will not be permitted? Are you really banning opposing replies to, questioning the merit of, and presenting information contrary to postings that may be inaccurate, incorrect, or incomplete in their information? Considering that medicine (alternative or otherwise) is potentially harmful. It would be dangerous and irresponsible to preclude questioning the merits of, presenting evidence contrary to, or demonstrating the lack of foundation for any particular claims regarding a treatment or therapy. DS> etc. NO ONE, not even researchers are always right about DS> everything so There are researchers who are at best only occasionally right about SOME things. DS> whatever is presented here is not necessarily THE DS> ONLY method. Whatever is presented may also be harmful and not even A method. On the other hand, many things may be beneficial notwithstanding the representations of the established medical and legal interests (which seems to be the interest and spirit of alternative medicine). DS> In the long run, what any of us as individuals may think doesn't DS> mean a lot except to ourselves. Opinions are worthless unless they are based upon a substantial foundation -- e.g. not politics, the law, or self-interest. DS> We are not researchers or medical practioners so our opinions DS> are only from our own limited points of view. Speak for yourself. In any event, there is no way to credibly prove to anyone here that someone posting who claims to be a practitioner or researcher is in fact what he/she claims to be (or that he/she is competent). So all opinions that anyone is inclined to follow into practice should be followed up with questions, research, and careful implementation. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00007Date: 10/19/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 09:00am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Due process & S. Kemp Dia Spriggs wrote in a message to All: DS> What is BEST for the whole of altmed is my decision and anyone not DS> liking it, exit stage left. A simple, polite request, a warning DS> and then you're outta here. In order to be respected, the rules must apply to everyone, including the moderator. In the case of Steve Kemp, it is unclear for what he is being asked to leave. His messages prior to your request had nothing to do with the marijuana thread, so your response is unrelated to that discussion. What he was discussing just before you asked him to leave was moderation of this echo. Moderation is generally off-topic in any echo. But, you participated with him in continuing the discussion rather than telling him to stop. I did not see a simple, polite request to him to stop. There was no personal warning (unless you sent it by netmail). Instead, you appear to have jumped to asking him to leave without the process to which every participant is entitled here -- according to your rules. Considering that Mr. Kemp appears to be one of the more informed and experienced people here in matters pertaining to alternative medicine, it would be a shame to lose him. Maybe it's time to cool off, shake hands, make an example of abiding by the rules, and put this behind as a learning experience. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00008Date: 10/19/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 09:31am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Garlic From: Mother Nature's General Store http://www.mothernature.com Garlic (Allium sativum) / HU SUAN Facts from Dr. Earl Mindell's, "Herb Bible" Facts: Garlic may be the wonder drug of the herbal world. The ancient Egyptians not only worshipped garlic but fed it to their slaves to keep them healthy, for good reason. This amazing herb does everything from aid in the treatment of ear infections to help prevent heart disease and cancer. It has even been to treat tuberculosis, with good results. Biologist Louis Pasteur put garlic to the test by putting a few cloves in a petri dish full of bacteria. Much to his suprise, he discovered that garlic could indeed kill troublesome microorganisms. In the 1950's, Dr.. Albert Schweitzer used garlic to treat cholera, typhus, and amoebic dysentery while working as a missionary of antibiotics, garlic was used on the battlefield to disinfect wounds and prevent gangrene, In fact, the Soviet army relied so heavily on garlic that it earned the name "Russian penicillin." Garlic is also used as an anticoagulant to resolve fresh blood clots and has been shown to lower cholesterol while increasing the level of beneficial HDLs (high-density lipoproteins), the so-called good cholesterol. Garlic also lowers blood pressure. In fact, according to a study published in _Atherosclerosis_ when patients with hyperlipoproteinemia ate garlic, blood pressure declined along with levels of LDL (low-density lipoprotein) and fibrinogen. An added bonus was that anticlotting factor levels increased, reducing the risk of blood clots. There is evidence that garlic can effect the mortality rate of heart attack victims. Researcher Arun Noria at Tagore Medical college in Udaipur, India, monitored 432 heart attack survivors for three years. Half the group drank the juice of six to ten garlic cloves each day. the other half drank a garlic-sented placebo. The garlic eaters experianced 32 percent fewer deaths and 45 percent fewer deaths. Hippocrates (460B.C.) is believed to have used garlic to treat utrine cancer. We now know that garlic is toxic to some tumor cells and is being investigated by the National Cancer Institute (NCI) for its cancer-inhibiting properties. According to a recent NCI study of four thousand people from regions of Italy and China, those who recalled eating diets high in garlic and other alliums, including onions, had a substantially lower incidence of stomach cancer than those who abstained from this pungent herb. garlic oil can relieve earaches and can help heal minor skin disorders. On top of everything else, garlic is good for indigestion. Chinese Facts: Since the sixth century, the Chinese have used garlic as an antibiotic and an antiflammatory. It is still an extremely popular herb in China, and is used to treat amoebic dysentery, yeast infections, and middle ear infections. Externally, it is used for nosebleeds and snake and insect bites. Caution: Eating 10 or more raw garlic cloves a day can be toxic and in some cases can trigger an allergic reaction. Garlic should not be used by women who are breast-feeding because it can pass to the breast milk and cause colic in infants. The Great Garlic Mystery During the Great Plague epidemic, some herbalists avoid this deadly disease by eating large amounts of garlic and wearing garlic strands around their necks. To this day, we don't know whether garlic's antibiotic properties protected these people against plague, or whether the foul stench of the herb discouraged others from getting close enough to spread their infection. Part Used: Bulb Common Use: Quickens circulation; Anthelmintic (expels or destroys intestinal worms); Antiviral, antibacterial, antispasmodic; Reduces high blood pressure, blood cholestrial; Immune support for respirtory system, bronchitis, catarrh, colds, flu and cough; Natural source for germanium. Dosage: 16-32 drops. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00009Date: 10/19/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 09:33am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Garlic 2 Garlic: The Great Protector By Sly Holladay Herbs are plants which possess some of the qualities of food and some of the properties of drugs. A perfect example of this is the well-known culinary and medicinal herb Garlic (Allium sativum). Garlic has been used since the days of the Egyptians to treat wounds, infections, tumors, and intestinal parasites. In addition, this pungent plant is a common ingredient of soups and stews, as well as Italian and Greek dishes such as pesto and spanikopita. Modern scientific research confirms these ancient uses for garlic, including the ability to lower cholesterol and blood pressure. Increased levels of cholesterol and triglycerides (fats) as well as elevated blood pressure increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, a leading cause of death in western countries. Garlic's sulfur-containing compounds, which lend the herb its pungent, spicy aroma, are responsible for many of its healing properties. Specifically, these compounds lower cholesterol by stimulating the release of bile by the gall bladder (bile contains cholesterol and related compounds) and by decreasing the production of cholesterol in the liver. In addition, garlic compounds gently lower blood pressure by slowing the production of the body's own blood pressure raising hormones. Garlic also possesses the ability to stimulate the immune system. The bulb stimulates the activity of macrophages, white blood cells which engulf the foreign organisms, such as viruses, bacteria, and yeast. Furthermore, garlic increases the activity of the T-helper cells, immune cells which are central to the activity of the entire immune system. Garlic may be particularly effective in treating upper respiratory viral infections due to its immune-enhancing properties and its ability to clear mucous from the lungs. Garlic also possesses the ability to inhibit the growth of parasites in the intestines, including amoebas which cause dysentery. It should be noted that amoebic dysentery is a potentially serious condition which requires the assistance of a trained physician. Garlic has also been used in folk medicine in many parts of the world to treat pinworms, an annoying but generally harmless intestinal parasite. This amazing herb has also demonstrated the ability to protect against a variety of environmental and other toxins. Garlic's sulfur compounds, in addition to selenium containing compounds, are potent antioxidants which protect cell membranes and DNA from damage. Furthermore scientific studies have shown that garlic stimulates the production of the liver's own detoxifying enzymes which neutralize carcinogens and other toxins. The question often arises: What is the best form of garlic to use? Raw or lightly cooked garlic contains a potent array of sulfur compounds which are responsible for many of garlic's healing properties; however, these same substances are also responsible for garlic's often unwanted aroma. On the other hand, a recently observed bumper sticker offers a different point of view: Eat Garlic--It's Chic to Reek! (I swear I'm not making this up). Furthermore, liberal consumption of raw garlic may shorten the stay of unwanted houseguests. Despite these considerable advantages, those wishing to maneuver through life in a more discreet fashion should consider the use of dried garlic which is enterically coated and has the important sulfur compound, allicin, in a stabilized form. Whichever form you choose, I say, "Go for it!" and let the chips-- or house guests--fall where they may. Sources: _Garlic, the Miracle Nutrient_, by Dr Earl Mindell _Garlic, Nature's Organic Remedy_, by Stephen Fulder & John Blackwood Botanical.com Home Page Copyright 1995 Electric Newt --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEQ00010Date: 10/19/97 From: BARBARA BUCKANTZ Time: 11:32pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Sleep deprivation GL> It is said that the herb, St. John's Wort, may help with depression. GL> SJW is available at health food stores. I happened to come across "St. John's Wort TEA" when selecting herbal teas in a health food store. Would the herb be enough in a tea form, or should one take in another form? I've been hearing a lot about this herb lately. What else is it known to be helpful for? --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0)