--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00002Date: 10/15/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 09:23am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana as medicine > But, it's an alternative medicine. If this were a standard > medicine echo If you REALLY read this echo instead of just shooting off your mouth you'd know that I did allow some documentary that came from research on the medical use of the drug. It was ONLY after it became a brawl with people constantly telling the other one that they were stupid and resorted to name calling and the WHOLE echo was nothing but posts from FOUR people on marijuana that I put a stop to it. In case you didn't notice...there was NO ONE posting at all except the four arguers and the ONLY subject was marijuana. All the other people had been chased away becuase of their insistance on being stuck on one subject. I asked other people to post, I asked that the thread be stopped and that we move on to something else. BTW, where were you and your intelligence when all the brawling was going on. What did YOU do to introduce another topic or try and influence people in another direction. It's really simple to sit on your high horse and condemn other people when you, yourself do nothing to help the matter at all. In case you think marijuana is an ok subject on most echos..try going over to the HERBS and SUCH echo and posting over there...Tomas is as much of a nazi as I am I guess. If all you can contribute to this echo is name calling and insults, then please leave. Hopefully the majority of us are trying to do something useful! --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00003Date: 10/16/97 From: VERA LAMAR Time: 01:19am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Juiceman Juicer DS> Please tell me more...I've been toying with the idea for a long time Well, I have been following the recipes in the book that came with it. He tells you what to juice for different things such as, arthritis, weight loss, and I could go on and on. I have the large machine. I think it will last forever! I got the juiceman juicer because of the books that show you what to mix for what problems you may have. It is a truely great investment! I use to have a small juice machine that didn't last very long. It just didn't have the power that this one has. So if your thinking about getting one, it is by far the best. I had seen him on T.V. many times and finaly desided to do it. And I am so glad I did. I don't know the Juicemans name, but he was told some years ago that he had cancer and was not expected to live. He started juicing and after some time went back to the doctors with no trace of cancer in his body. He is 74 yrs old now and looks great for his age. He is married to a young wife and they have small children. He looks great! Mayby there is something to this juicing! I can feel that my energy level has increased. Im not as tired as I was. As for other results, I'll post as time go's by... I like sharing a good thing! * AmyBW v2.14 * --- WtrGate+ 0.92.p5-o gamma sn 107 * Origin: GratisNet - Free internet email & usenet access (1:170/900) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00004Date: 10/15/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 05:55am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: EXPIRATION WARNING STEVE KEMP was thinking about EXPIRATION WARNING and keyed into cyberspace: SK>MP>In FIDO, there are three possibilities: SK>MP>1. Dia continues SK>MP> (let's hear it for #1) SK>MP>2. Dia stops moderating and turns the conference over to someone SK>MP>else. SK>MP>3. Dia walks away and abandons it. Then: SK>MP> a. anyone interested can volunteer to take it over SK>MP> b. if more than one person does so, an election can be had SK>I'd say #2 or #3 are the most valid alternatives. Dia is astoundingly SK>unfit to moderate this echo. She has neither the intelligence or SK>temperament to handle the job. You mis-understand. If Dia continues, then 2 and 3 are moot. She has the absolute right to continue. The conference is hers to do with as she pleases. Period. Personally, I am amazed she let the perpetrators get away with defying her on that MJ thread issue. In any other FIDO conference, they would have been booted and gone. Her demeanor and temperament is ideal for this conference. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00005Date: 10/15/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:45am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Expiration Warning STEVE KEMP was thinking about Expiration Warning and keyed into cyberspace: SK>DS>I haven't received the notice yet..it will be taken care of altho SK>DS>sometimes I feel it would be better just to let it go. The SK>DS>quality of the echo has gone down to where no one posts except SK>DS>for endless arguments. The interesting, informative people have SK>DS>either left in disgust or just don't post anymore.... SK>I'd tend to believe that this is because of a lack of rational SK>thought, and action, on the moderators part. Oh yeah, that's you. If SK>you allow flamers like Jane to hurl insult upon injury, at SK>will...while coming down with an illogical and baseless proclamation SK>that "certain herbs are off limits" because of their illegality in SK>certain areas of the United States...then, it is YOU that are SK>promoting disharmony and discontent. Moderation can be accomplished privately. If you note, Jane has not been here for a while. Perhaps, and this is merely conjecture, she is experiencing a "cooling off period" as she did continue the flames and the thread after she was asked to stop. While I disagreed with Dia's ending the thread, you have to admit, it was getting a might tedious. The alignment was Jane vs. everyone else. Now, if there is one thing I have learned about Jane, it is that you cannot get her to change her mind. As for why people stop posting, it is probably not as simple as you would want it to be. Threads which dominate tend to cause a decrease in posting. Arguments in some conferences tend to decrease the postings. As for Dia's style of moderating, you have no idea how easy going she is. I was moderated, publicly, in FIDO POLITICS because I asked someone to stop calling Jane a liar. I used to read the UFO conference for laughs, and once posted that some guy was a proponent of some "whacko conspiracy nut's" weirdo ideas regarding UFOs. Got moderated for that (not the language, but for criticizing the whacko). The moderator in FIDO CONSTITUTION does not dare moderate me, even though I regularly refer to his whinings as "reading straight from the Konservative Kristian Koalition cheat sheet." I also refer to him as factually challenged, and intimidated by specifics. Oh, he does not like my referring to some of his ideas as "male bovine excreta" or the cruder form of the same substance. But it is the Constitution, and imagine moderating in that. SK>The first thing I saw when I hit this echo, months ago, was you SK>virtually SCREAMING in a angst ridden tizzy. Your ability to moderate SK>effectively is non-existent. You irrational tantrums are not SK>something that should be expected from a moderator. You should hang SK>it up. Leave such pursuits to people that have control and a SK>thinking mind. This is a conference discussing ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE. What's wrong with having an alternative style of moderating? SK>If you hadn't noticed, people were debating much....with reasoned and SK>thoughtful conduct (well, except Jane) until you goose-stepped in SK>like a little Nazi and forbid a certain alternative medicines SK>discussion. That is the style you demonstrated when I first came SK>upon this echo (as I stated in the prior paragraph). It was such a SK>shock to me I commented about it. It turned out, to my surprise, SK>that YOU were the moderator. It wasn't a scene that I would have SK>expected from one, and I've seen ALLOT of moderation styles. You have seen "a lot" of styles? Well, you have seen another. SK>Sure, FIDO isn't a democracy...but, at least a proclamation should SK>have a logical reason. AND, the moderator should possess at least a SK>minimum standard of knowledge on the issue of the echo. A modicum of SK>restraint is also a reasonable thing to expect. You see, moderators SK>generally attempt to keep the flames DOWN, not incite them. You seem to argue both sides. Dia cut the thread to end the flames, and then you complain about the flames not being cut, and about the thread being ended. The Few. The Proud. The Chosen. markprobe@aol.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00006Date: 10/15/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 01:16am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: St. John's Wort MARK PROBERT wrote in a message to SUE ALEXANDER: SA> (snip) SA>MP> The three-year study will involve 336 patients with major SA>MP> depression, of whom one-third will receive a 900 milligram (mg) SA>MP> daily dose of St. John's wort, one-third will receive a placebo, SA>MP> and one-third will receive a selective serotonin reuptake SA>MP> inhibitor. SA> Are you familiar with the use of St John's wort? I was SA>wondering if this is an appropriate dose for treatment purposes and SA>if there are any interactions with drugs or food. MP> The purpose of the study is to determine safety, efficacy, dosage MP> and interactions. MP> I would never presume to know such things before they are MP> empirically tested. I was actually trying to figure out if they were really trying to test it or setting it up for failure. From your answer, I presume you can't help me...oh, well. Sue ... I haven't killed anyone in... what time is it, anyway? --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00007Date: 10/15/97 From: SUE ALEXANDER Time: 01:26am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Expiration Warning Steve Kemp wrote in a message to Meg Umans: MU>-> informative people have either left in disgust or just don't post MU>-> anymore.... MU>I used to post. If you've gotten rid of the arguers then let's get MU>on with it. SK> Well, debate is often worthwhile. Constant agreement is not SK> something that is. Especially in an echo where debate and/or SK> disagreement has health of humans as its goal. "Here, take this" is SK> not something that is a very bright idea to blindly say...or to SK> blindly follow. However, debate follows rules and is constructive. The rules to follow are those set up by the moderator, who has listed areas that are off-topic. There is at least one that I have seen you constantly are trying to nag, bully, and generally insult your way back into. I think that Dia, while often reluctant to cut a person's feed for the echo, has done her job trying to get this echo back on track. It is her playground here...you have to follow her rules. If not, help us pursue alternative medicine...reduce our stress levels by choosing not to post. Sue ... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him walk on it!-GL --- timEd/386 1.10 * Origin: Transylvanian Tap (1:121/45.23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00008Date: 10/14/97 From: JIM BURNS Time: 08:47pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Drug Scam DRUG SCAMP Under the new Drug Plan for Senior Citizens of the Ontario Government, A individual who receives a income of over $16,018, and families whose combined income exceeds $24,175 a year will be asked to pay the first $100.00 in prescription costs. After that, you pay up to a maximum of $6.11 ODB dispensing fee for each prescription you have filled in the year. While many people are carrying supplementary private insurance coverage as part of their retirement benefit package, which will pay for this cost, less the deductible and co-insurance costs, Insurance Companies are now requesting that where a person is taking a medication on a continual basis as prescribed by a Physician, that the patient obtain at least three estimates from local Druggists for filling the prescription, and they will only pay the difference of cost between the Generic type and the Brand name, if such is required by the Doctor. There are many Druggist who will fill the Prescription for a fee of $4.11 and some of the 'mail order' supply companies for a cost of $5.00 plus delivery charges to any address in Canada or a cost of $29.00 CAN,if sent to the U.S.A. However there are a number of Druggist that now have a new scheme in which they will only supply you with a 30 day supply at a time, charge you for that dispensing fee and then repeat the same scam again in another 30 days. So a original RX for a quantity of 100 days could now land up by costing you 3 times the normal dispensing fee. For people that travel to Florida or some other destination to escape the cold, many Druggists will supply you a full quantity of 200 days supply of the drugs you are taking subject to you paying up-front the cost of the 2nd 100 days supply and waiting for a refund of your money after the Druggist has been paid for the second filling of the medication. It would appear that the private Insurance Companies are now getting into a type of system that I call DRUG-CARE which is similar to Managed Care in which the patient is told which Physician to go to or which Hospital that they must use or pay the difference out of their own pockets. If DRUG-CARE does come about, then many small local Druggists will be forced out of business. It does seem a form of robbery by the Druggist to charge a fee of $6.11 to simply reach on the shelf and supply you with a already prepackaged drug in which all he does is place a label on it, he doesn't need to count it or get a mixing bowel or grind up various chemicals and press them into pill form. I guess someone has to pay for his Golf Club membership like the Doctors, I guess the Undertaker will be next in line for his cut as well. --- Virtual Advanced Ver 2 for DOS The Dragon's Den 1:250/104, a&m@to.org Toronto, Ont. (416)744-8654 * Origin: Platinum Communications : 905-770-9540 (1:250/301) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00009Date: 10/14/97 From: JIM BURNS Time: 08:49pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: More Scams ONTARIO MEDICAL SCAMS In 1993 the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that a patients medical record belonged to the patient and not to the Physician who had carried out the examination or treatment. Since the Physician or Medical Laboratory had already been paid by the OHIP or a third party. This meant that the patient could, for many reasons, take their Medical records to some other Medical facility if they wished to for other opinions or consultation, this of course included any diagnostic tests, xrays, special tests etc. The original primary Physician could keep copies of the records, at their own expense if they so choose. However the court ruling did not work in that manner and many patients that asked their Doctors for their files were meat with having to pay excessive charges to obtain the information or undergo a duplicate series of examinations at a new Physicians facility, which resulted in additional expense to the Government or the Private Insurance Company, even to get the physician to sign or fill in forms for the patients employer or Insurance Company would result in a additional charge to the patient.At one Bloor St.West medical practice the patients were charged $30.00 for telephone advice during office hours, $15.00 for repeat prescriptions and $25.00 for each 15 minutes travelling time to the patients home. Now a Ontario Divisional Court has struck down the Supreme Courts ruling by stating that the regulation was outside the power of the Government. This now means that a Physician can charge a annual fee of $50.00 per individual or $100.00 per family to cover any service not covered by the OHIP plan. While other guidelines set by the College of Physicians and Surgeons will apply, it would appear that once again the Doctors have won another battle. --- Virtual Advanced Ver 2 for DOS The Dragon's Den 1:250/104, a&m@to.org Toronto, Ont. (416)744-8654 * Origin: Platinum Communications : 905-770-9540 (1:250/301) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00010Date: 10/16/97 From: BARBARA BUCKANTZ Time: 01:39am \/To: MARY-ANNE WISE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Muscles MW> BB> They are proper warmups, cool-downs, and most important, stopping ny MW> BB> exercise *immediately* if feeling uncomfortable (out of breath, ain, MW> BB> etc.). MW> MW> and don't forget the all important... ***stretching*** ;-) Of course, I know that. I sort of lump them into the warmup and cooldown parts. :-) I have cable TV. And Family Channel carries some FIT TV programs in the mornings. My cable company doesn't carry the FIT TV network, or else I could get fitness programs all day long. I find out lots of good information on exercising and healthy food tips, not just exercise programs. --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: QUACKERS BBS - Cleveland, Ohio (1:157/443.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EEK00011Date: 10/16/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 09:46am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Prostate breakthrough A message concerning herb for prostate cross-posted from the Internet USENET newsgroup: alt.health Question: Does anyone have any info or have they read about this herb? Thanks. George. -=> Quoting Roger Langford to <=- RL> From: roger langford RL> Reply-To: roger@thepla.net RL> Greetings from Sydney Australia. RL> I am writing to ascertain if you are aware of the availability of the RL> herb Epilobium as a treatment/cure for prostate disorder and cancer. RL> International agency/distribution rights are available. RL> Background: RL> EPILOBIUM RL> Latin Name: Epilobium Parviflorum RL> Other Names: Weidenroescheon, small-flowered willow herb RL> Origin: Europe RL> Habitat: Likes rich, moist soils in shaded, protected positions RL> Parts used: leaves, stem, flower RL> Preparations: herb tea, capsule RL> Action: Prostatelium, anti-inflammatory, astringent, remedial RL> Epilobium is an herb and the only one recognized as a prostatelium, RL> that RL> is, its specific task is to treat the prostate. It has no side effects RL> and is an excellent preventative that every man over 50 should take. RL> (Epilobium, as with all herbs does its best work as a preventative, so RL> a RL> few cups a week once reaching the vulnerable age zone is as close as a RL> guarantee as is possible to get that prostate disorder will not be RL> contracted). RL> Secondly, it is a permanent therapeutic that can serve as a support RL> agent in problem free combination with any other forms of prostate RL> treatment including surgery. recent German studies have revealed that RL> Epilobium is one of the many plants containing betasitosterol, but is RL> one of the few to contain it in a medicinally sufficient quantity and RL> usable form. RL> The real value of the herb lies in the fact that many patients are RL> spared surgery altogether as the enlargement of the prostate is either RL> significantly slowed down or completely halted. RL> Epilobium may be taken as a tea or in a capsule form, the healing RL> effects are both are the same. the directions are very simple: for RL> prostate enlargement it is taken just twice daily as directed before RL> breakfast and again half an hour before the evening meal. Prostate RL> disorder sufferers have reported that the beneficial effects can be RL> felt RL> in just a few days. Of course, it has to be taken for a period of at RL> least three months to enable it to help effect full recovery. RL> For prostate cancer sufferers, the recommended intake of Epilobium tea RL> is four times daily before meals. RL> The product has been commercially available in this country for about RL> five years now and thousands of Australian men (and their wives) will RL> testify to its effectiveness. RL> A search of the internet does not reveal any other Epilobium/prostate RL> link. RL> The sole repository of this knowledge is Adelaide herbalist Hilde RL> Hemmes. RL> This product has enormous potential in all western societies. RL> For further information, testimonials, samples etc. please contact the RL> writer. RL> Kind Regards RL> Roger Langford RL> 1 Manning Road RL> Hunters Hill RL> NSW 2110 RL> AUSTRALIA RL> ph: 61 2 9817 3342 RL> Fax: 61 2 9816 3447 End of message ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454)