--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDX00002Date: 09/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 02:24am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A.A vs. R.R. JK>SK> And, WHO are you speaking of? I've never met a drug addict that JK>SK> was doing drugs to "fix" anything, except their pain.. JK>THE ONLY REASON DRUGS ARE USED IS TO AFFECT THE BRAIN AND CENTRAL JK>NERVOUS SYSTEM. But you stated "fix", not effect. (affect is NOT the correct word, "Nurse" Kelley). JK> In short, to alter the brain chemistry. Period. That is true. But, not necessarily to "fix" anything. That is an absolute without any substantiation. JK>Anything else is an excuse. No, other explanations can be equally true. You just state whatever you wish without basis. JK> This idea of "pain" comes from those JK>who are too psychologically crippled to live in modern society JK>without chemical help. Treatment consists of teaching them how to JK>do just that. What? You mean live on "meds" instead of "drugs", right? THAT is your cure? No wonder noone ever becomes "not addicted" on your planet. Or, is it just that the "addict for life" has to go to A.A. meetings for the rest of their sorry existence? JK>There is no such thing as "was a drug addict". Actually, there is...... ME! A.A. doesn't believe this. R.R. does. You see R.R. (Rational Recovery) DOESN'T push that victimizing line that "you are helpless against your addiction" crap. R.R. says "YOU are the ONLY person that can do it! Now, DO IT! STOP! Stop being a victim!" You see, that works for many people. It makes people "OWN" their recovery. It doesn't put it in the hands of God or other people. I'm proof it works. JK> Had you any form of JK>treatment for addiction or attended even a few meetings of JK>Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous, you would have learned JK>addicted to that. THAT was my point. I DON'T believe the A.A. methodology or it's message. THAT is why I believe and follow R.R. (Rational Recovery). JK> You are permanently whatever drug you chose plus JK>addicted to you have a tendency to become rapidly any other drug in JK>that same class! Three days of use will be all that it takes to JK>turn you into a confirmed addict to any other drug in the same JK>class. You are wrong. You just buy the A.A. line. I don't. JK>I've seen addicts in recovery for years, have worked for a JK>couple of the best drug counselors in both Tacoma and Seattle. And you did the A.A. and N.A. model....I understand what you are saying. I don't believe in it. It makes VICTIMS for life. JK> Just what do JK>you think you can contribute to the knowledge I have piled up from JK>sitting on hard chairs through two pages of seminars and workshops JK>on addiction and related subjects after graduation from the oldest JK>school in the nation for counselors? EXPERIENCE at being a drug addict. Real, and personal, KNOWLEDGE! Information. Truth. Facts. JK> What have you got to say that JK>those who were incarcerated in the old King County Jail didn't? That they should look into R.R., that's what. JK> Your posts indicate a total JK>and complete lack of any real understanding of the disease of JK>addiction or what it takes to break the hold that drugs have on JK>someone and what to do to help that person stay clean and sober. You are incorrect. You see...._I_ am an EX-drug addict. _I_ am proof. JK>Your experience is limited to one person's, your own. And so is yours. But, YOUR experience is limited...because YOU weren't addicted. I've been on BOTH sides, you haven't. JK> And that, I was JK>informed at Seattle University, is not enough to do any good at all JK>in this world today. I am doing more to HELP people than YOU are! Because _I_ care! YOU don't. YOU want to put people in prison. YOU call people that do drugs NAMES! YOU don't care! You despise other human's for their poor choices...then would condemn them to death for speaking freely. YOU are a fascist! You are uncaring and cruel. JK> If you want to really do something, then get JK>your rear end to those who will teach you how to help other addicts. I already know how, and _I_ LIVE IT! I work with R.R. Have you ever heard of it? Do YOU care? I don't want to line people up against a wall and shoot them for making bad decisions, YOU DO! AND YOU are the one that insults me because I'm an EX-addict....by saying I'm posting from Folsom Prison. As if YOU care. BULL! YOU DON'T CARE! That much is obvious. You are speaking to an ex- addict....but, all you have is disdain....all you have is hate! You are an ignorant and hateful bigot....that cares for NOONE! Especially those that DO care. Go away! You are only hurting the efforts of good people to stop what IS a bad thing...drug use. HOW DARE YOU say that I don't care! HOW DARE YOU say that I'm not clean! HOW DARE YOU think that YOU can speak for all people ...THAT DO CARE! You are the most hateful and ignorant person I've EVER had contact with....and I was a crack, crank, and pill addict. Those drug dealers cared more than you. We don't need more Hitler's and Stalins', like you. Talk about gardening or knitting. To talk about a REAL problem with such ignorance is HARMFUL to people. Don't you understand? You are an AltMed drug dealing hater of human's. Please stop before someone buys that line of crap about you being a nurse, and dies. YOU ARE A LIAR! STOP, before someone dies from your stupid act. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* Do good, for all free and good people! --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDX00003Date: 09/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 01:54am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Nurse? Nope! JK>SK> Oh, so you are a genetic alcoholic AND a sociopath. JK>We've already witnessed your complete and total lack of understanding JK>of addiction and anything connected with it Really? Considering that I've been clean and sober for over a year and a half, and I was an addict for 12 years.....hmmmmm. RIGHT! _I_ don't know what I'm talking about? SURE! You see, _I_ LIVED IT! You just hated the people that lived it. JK>We've already seen your complete and total ignorance on the subject JK>of addiction and anything related to it. Didn't you just say that? JK> Now please don't try to become an instant expert in mental health. I minored in psych in college, sorry that I talked about what I know. AND, I also LIVED IT! YOU were just a guard and pill pusher. JK> Even the worst practitioners around do have some education in the JK> subject. Like YOU? Not a basis in fact. Actually, I don't buy the act. If you WERE a nurse you would know at least SOMETHING about medicine. All I remember is your silly "cerebral part of the brain" post. Now THAT is the most ignorant (and telling) post you EVER did. HELLO? Earth to Jane? The act isn't working. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* A wet-nurse isn't a real nurse. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDX00004Date: 09/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 01:58am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Nurse? NOT! JK>SK> Exactly. But that wasn't my point, but since you bring it JK>SK> up...don't you think that telling people to take any of these JK>SK> AltMed concoctions is irresponsible, then? JK>At times it is. Damn straight. JK> When folks start acting like doctors and herbalists JK> without the proper credentials, it is. Like you? Yep. JK> However, I also don't think that we should have to have the use of JK> them tightly regulated. WHAT? Yes you do! Read your own damn posts about another "unmentionable weed". YOU are against drugs! Remember? JK>We regulate drugs and we still have all kinds of problems with them. That was my point. YOU want MORE problems. JK>We actually seen to have less problems with what is sold in the JK>average health food store these days. Not at all. What about Ephedrine?(sp?) Or herbal Ecstasy? That is YOUR kind of drug you are pushing. "Natural"....ahh, bull! You are a drug pusher! You would rather push little known drugs than highly studied ones. You are being irresponsible and ignorant of the dangers of these silly and ineffective concoctions. YOU are a quack. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* AltMed is AltCrack. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDY00000Date: 09/26/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:11am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addictions SK> were anurse in the capacity of a "treatment advisor" or something to SK> thateffect....I was a drug user. I KNOW what it is to be an SK> addict...do you?I'm talking first hand, not what patients TOLD me. I am still addicted to the foods that I shouldn't eat! My mind has very inventive and creative methods of trying to get me to buy tomatoes, for instance. I have learned to think through whatever food cravings I get to the substance in whatever it is that I am really wanting that moment and not buy it. Which is what you have learned to do about drugs. However, if you are given another drug in the same class as any which you know yourself to be addicted to, you are going to become addicted to the new drug within three days! I also know what it is to be addicted to other things. I was able, through the education I'd gotten, to recognize that I was in the late middle stage of alcoholism before I quit drinking. Still had some "yets" left. SK> everNOT addicted, once addicted...always addicted". I disagree. To SK> believesuch a thing is to to a victim for life. To believe that you SK> arefree....MAKES YOU FREE! To hold THAT truth is to be cured and SK> clean forlife. What this principle takes is ...belief in ones self SK> and ones own To believe as you do makes one a sitting duck for the next drug that comes along, be it from a dentist, doctor, or friend. The real freedom comes from the knowledge that anything that can be done to the mind with the commonly abused drugs can be done to the mind without them! And then to learn how to do just that. No easy, softer way...just a lot of hard work and study. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDY00001Date: 09/26/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 10:17pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & Addicti [1/3 > > There are. Countless. So why do we see the same old tired > excuses for legalizing a definite mind altering drug among > those who admit to present and past use? I don't know and neither do you..however the subject of mj is closed on this echo..please respect my request! --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDY00002Date: 09/27/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 11:16am \/To: ANN YOUNG (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana as medicine JK> I I am not responsible for the many lies put out by those who are JK> defending their "right" to be stoned to the gills on pot. Nor am I AY> I couldn't have said any better than what you have said,As a person AY> that has used it myself many year's ago,you are very right that it AY> does afect the brain Thanks. I am sick and tired of seeing the praises of marijuna in one post after another from those who havne't the first clue as to the really devastating results from its use seen in any jail of any size in this nation! * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDY00003Date: 09/28/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 03:02pm \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: A.A vs. R.R. -=> Quoting Steve Kemp to Jane Kelley <=- SK> You are incorrect. You see...._I_ am an EX-drug addict. _I_ am proof. I heard, in my past, in regards to alcoholics that once they ACCEPT they are prone to heavy drinking, there are two paths to follow: 1. Some alcoholics can learn to drink only in small quantity and now know when to stop. 2. Some alcoholics can never have another drink because they must then continue to want drinks. Maybe catergory #1 drinker is only a heavy drinker??? Also, alcoholics and drug addicts may be deficit in nutrition? Like needing vitamin B complex and vitamin C. ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDY00004Date: 09/28/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 03:02pm \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Addiction -=> Quoting Steve Kemp to Jane Kelley <=- SK> Really? Considering that I've been clean and sober for over a year and SK> a half, and I was an addict for 12 years.....hmmmmm. RIGHT! _I_ don't SK> know what I'm talking about? SURE! What were the reasons you were able to become an ex-addict? Do you have to change your diet? ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDZ00000Date: 09/28/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 07:19pm \/To: SHARON MCCORMICK (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Dong Quai > > Thanks for that, Dia, I hadn't known about the fibroids! Most women dont' and women's formulas are full of estrogenic herbs which makes fibroids grow pretty fast. Vitex is a good hormone regulator but it takes a LONG time. --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDZ00001Date: 09/28/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 07:21pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Muscles Anyone exercising or doing strenuous work that taxes the muscles should eat carbohydrates as soon as finishing the exercise as possible. They help the muscles recover faster and make them less prone to cramping and pain. --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68)